I'm thinking 3 barefaced two 10s could be a good choice and replace everything I've got? Anyone try it with Mo and an M700?
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Jule Amps Monique part 5
- Thread starter Chef
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I haven't used the Two10's but I would suggest starting with two of them. You might be supposed at what they're capable of.
The BB2's I have are incredible and completely surpass what I thought a 112 was capable of doing, all in a reasonably small and very light package.
The BB2's I have are incredible and completely surpass what I thought a 112 was capable of doing, all in a reasonably small and very light package.
If you like the sound of sealed cabs, I'd go Audiokenisis. They have the removable plugs too.
Also check out Mike Arnopol Soundworks. He has a handful of models, all of which are super tight in the low end, while still providing PLENTY of support. This is his website, but give him a call and he can steer you in the best direction for your tonal needs. He is also pretty familiar with Monique!
Welcome to Michael Arnopol Soundworks
Welcome to Michael Arnopol Soundworks
I've played Monique through Mike's 46, Flex Mod, and MAS 112 (version with the 18 Sound driver). Gigged it with the latter two (only played it with the 46 at home). Of those cabs, for my tastes, it pairs better with the 112 (which is the tightest of the bunch down low) and the Flex (which has the most detailed and most enveloping mids). The 46 is, compared to the other two, smoother (but still detailed) in the mids and what Mike would call "romantically voiced" (bigger down low). It's also the one that benefits most from being elevated on a stand. Set horizontally on the floor, the low register of the cab can be overwhelming and muddy things up, particularly with an amp that has a lot of booty. Elevated, it's still full, but cleans up pretty radically. Didn't realize how radically until I tried it recently.
I like Monique best through cabs with a detailed and present midrange. (I feel the same way about the Mesa Walkabout, though they are pretty different amps in some ways.) Of the cabs I've played, if I had to pick one to pair with Monique, it would be my 112 -- tight, good mids, loud enough to cover anything I do, and an easier schlep than the Flex -- but then TBer nomatic has mentioned digging it with a 66 (bigger version of my 46) + sub. Mike does make a new version of the 112 that's more efficient than mine with a voice that, in my recent trial of it, strikes me as being halfway between my 112 and the Flex. Lovely mids and a bit more upper-bass bump than mine. Could be a nice option.
I haven't played Duke's cabs (aside from a very brief encounter with a version 1 Thunderchild some years ago -- struck me as nicely balanced) but I keep playing with the idea of picking up one of his smaller Hathor cabs (the plug-able ports as mentioned -- cool idea). The sealed 18 that dukeorock makes looks pretty cool, too. I think that if I weren't playing Mike's cabs I'd look at one of those sealed designs. When I was younger, I always liked the tight, percussive thump of sealed cabs (though I didn't know anything about sealed vs. ported at the time) but missed the low end extension. Mike's cabs manage to provide something of both, but the new sealed cabs look like they address a lot of shortcomings of the older ones.
This is all my admittedly biased opinion, based on my tastes and experience.
I agree that the MAS112 sounds great with Monique. The reason I like both the Genzler BA cabs and the Baer ML115 slightly better is that they both have that tight low end and detailed mid range you speak of, BUT also have somewhat better bass extension along with it. I found that the Genzlers and Baer both had just enough additional bass extension that it was, for me, the best of both worlds. The mids of the ML115 are a bit more clear and forward then the Genzlers, but that deep bass extension of both of those cabs really won for me over the MAS112. The compact modularity and therefore easier transportability of the Genzlers proved to be the deciding factor for me over ML115, but if I had the room and money, I would have kept the ML115 as well.
The advantage of the MAS112, to me, is its mid punch. It just hits you in the chest hard, and the harder you drive it, the harder it punched, and it seemed effortless. While I can certainly appreciate that as a bassist in rock bands, I tend to favor the deeper bass extension over the mid punch. YMMV, of course!
I'm doing a bunch of stuff without an amp these days, either into IEMs or stage monitors, I also throw Mo on top of a provided backline at rehearsals and a growing number of gigs. I also spend at minimum 90 minutes a night practicing with headphones if I don't have a gig or rehearsal. There is a nuance to the sound of Monique as you all know that is almost indescribable, it's always going to the house and I love that. But if not handled properly gets lost on stage as things get louder as with anything of course. That dramatic change with my Valenti PJ from passive P mode from active both pickups just smacks you in the face with headphones but is a lame subtlety when the band starts rocking. I started experimenting with using a HPF between Mo and the power amp (as to not effect the FOH) the louder things get and the more I turn up, the higher I set the HPF and that is really bringing things back to life.
The M700 is set to arrive this week and while I've been experimenting with the Fdeck HPF I use for my DB I ordered a Broughton HPF which by the reports of other TBers really handles a line level signal well. Being that I often find myself using a house cabinet or no cabinet at all I'm trying to find solutions that are a bit universal.
Thanks for all the cabinet suggestions thus far...
The M700 is set to arrive this week and while I've been experimenting with the Fdeck HPF I use for my DB I ordered a Broughton HPF which by the reports of other TBers really handles a line level signal well. Being that I often find myself using a house cabinet or no cabinet at all I'm trying to find solutions that are a bit universal.
Thanks for all the cabinet suggestions thus far...
Hey, Bob!
I have to admit that I've thought about downsizing to a small, modular rig, myself (I have no fewer than three possibilities floating around my head as we speak). If I hadn't run across the MAS stuff a few years ago, I probably would've picked up a Baer cab or two. I'd inquired a bit with Roger at the time and he was very helpful -- and I dig the mid-loaded stuff better than most of the woofer + tweeter cabs out there. More importantly, from everything I've seen, his customer service is really good. Your BA stack looks like a cool one, too. Certainly one of the more "outside the box" production cabs out there.
I haven't played the Baer or Genzler cabs, so I can't offer any direct comparison with my 112, but I think (if I'm reading you right) that I hear that cab a bit differently than you do. Of all of Mike's cabs that I've played, I'd consider the 18 Sound MAS 112 the "leanest and meanest" with regard to its voicing -- where I cut bass with some cabs, I tend to boost a bit with that one -- and the "driest" in the way stopped notes have no overhang. It's also not the deepest-extending of Mike's cabs, but, to my ear, it extends deeper than most cabs I've heard -- like Ampeg 410 HLF deep, but without the boomy low end (though, ironically, the one amp I ever heard make the 410 HLF really behave was a GBE 750). I agree with you on the "harder you drive it, the harder it punches" part -- and there are several cabs voiced with more native booty than my 112 -- but I feel the hit in the chest you describe more as a kick in the gut with this cab. At least with mine, the bass feels strong and deep. Now, the Flex feels like a chest-hit to me -- it actually extends a bit lower, but the emphasis -- where it "hits" -- is higher, if that makes sense. The new 112 I played the other day strikes me a bit that way, too. They all take EQ pretty well (though I hear the 112 as more "neutral ground" that way than the Flex).
I don't know the -3 dB points of those cabs off the top of my head (I did at one point -- it's one of those annoying things I'd have asked Mike), and don't know it for the other cabs you mention, so I could be wrong about the extension thing -- wouldn't be the first time! -- but that's how I hear the ones I've played.
In any case, ears trump specs (or internet ramblings about specs) for determining what works for you. You've obviously found a winning combo for yourself, and a nicely portable one at that. It's okay if our mileage varies a bit. Different strokes for different cats, as they say.
If I'm ever somewhere where I can try the Genzler stack, I'll give 'em a spin!
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Actually Mark, I do not think I hear the MAS112 differently at all. What you describe is exactly how I would describe it. Tight low end, and as you mentioned, more reserved in the bass end of the spectrum and more mid present. And as for its extension, it may very well extend deeper than most you have heard. However, our discussion is merely limited by the fact that you have not tried a Genzler bass array or Baer ML115. I did living room and rehearsal side by side comparisons, and to my ear, the Baer and Genzlers were in fact even deeper in their extension, while still maintaining a very tight control over boominess. Now, was the difference huge? Not at all. But you could really hear it, especially in our rehearsal mix.Hey, Bob!
I have to admit that I've thought about downsizing to a small, modular rig, myself (I have no fewer than three possibilities floating around my head as we speak). If I hadn't run across the MAS stuff a few years ago, I probably would've picked up a Baer cab or two. I'd inquired a bit with Roger at the time and he was very helpful -- and I dig the mid-loaded stuff better than most of the woofer + tweeter cabs out there. More importantly, from everything I've seen, his customer service is really good. Your BA stack looks like a cool one, too. Certainly one of the more "outside the box" production cabs out there.
I haven't played the Baer or Genzler cabs, so I can't offer any direct comparison with my 112, but I think (if I'm reading you right) that I hear that cab a bit differently than you do. Of all of Mike's cabs that I've played, I'd consider the 18 Sound MAS 112 the "leanest and meanest" with regard to its voicing -- where I cut bass with some cabs, I tend to boost a bit with that one -- and the "driest" in the way stopped notes have no overhang. It's also not the deepest-extending of Mike's cabs, but, to my ear, it extends deeper than most cabs I've heard -- like Ampeg 410 HLF deep, but without the boomy low end (though, ironically, the one amp I ever heard make the 410 HLF really behave was a GBE 750). I agree with you on the "harder you drive it, the harder it punches" part -- and there are several cabs voiced with more native booty than my 112 -- but I feel the hit in the chest you describe more as a kick in the gut with this cab. At least with mine, the bass feels strong and deep. Now, the Flex feels like a chest-hit to me -- it actually extends a bit lower, but the emphasis -- where it "hits" -- is higher, if that makes sense. The new 112 I played the other day strikes me a bit that way, too. They all take EQ pretty well (though I hear the 112 as more "neutral ground" that way than the Flex).
I don't know the -3 dB points of those cabs off the top of my head (I did at one point -- it's one of those annoying things I'd have asked Mike), and don't know it for the other cabs you mention, so I could be wrong about the extension thing -- wouldn't be the first time! -- but that's how I hear the ones I've played.
In any case, ears trump specs (or internet ramblings about specs) for determining what works for you. You've obviously found a winning combo for yourself, and a nicely portable one at that. It's okay if our mileage varies a bit. Different strokes for different cats, as they say.
Now, is it possible that I could have closed that gap through some EQ of the MAS112? Maybe. But I loved the deeper extension of the other two cabs when Monique was largely flat, and that extension really popped through the mix in a wonderful way. And while the mid punchiness of the MAS112 was awesome (it reminded a lot of my Uber 410), I just preferred that subtle difference in the bass. And BTW, Monique does not make huge changes with the EQ. They are subtle compared to most heads I've played, which I really like.
Interestingly, the Baer ML115 does not sound like trad 115's. In a very good way. It really sounds a lot like the 12" based Genzler . I was all ready to add a second ML115, when I decided to audition the Genzlers. I went with them because two of the Genzlers were barely a few inches taller than the single ML115, and they are so easy to move around, one in each hand! I miss the ML115, but I love having one BA12-3 at home and one at rehearsal, and then I can combine the stack for gigs. The Genzlers have a bit less mid detail than the Baer, but they sound very similar.
I think I'm sending my rack pre back home to get the 700w module installed. From what everyone says I should be fine with 700w but I'm a little apprehensive. I kinda wish the 1400w existed. Coming from a ProLite 3.0...but it'll be a welcome change going from 4U down to 2U.
No real rush I'm just not sure it's going to exist.
I thought I remember reading about a 1400/2400w version. The 2500w is out now but I don't know if that's all that's planned. I'd love to put the 2500w amp in there but it's a little out of my price range at the moment.
Right now I'm running a 6U rack. It's not bad but it's a little big in certain venues like tiny restaurants. If I have an integrated Monique then I can eliminate my current 2U amp. Gig season is really starting to heat up so having it now would be much better than having it later.
I thought I remember reading about a 1400/2400w version. The 2500w is out now but I don't know if that's all that's planned. I'd love to put the 2500w amp in there but it's a little out of my price range at the moment.
Right now I'm running a 6U rack. It's not bad but it's a little big in certain venues like tiny restaurants. If I have an integrated Monique then I can eliminate my current 2U amp. Gig season is really starting to heat up so having it now would be much better than having it later.
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My M700 is set to arrive Saturday.
Hm, why wish him good luck with that? The only danger he'll run is getting addicted to that sensitivity knob...
Oh wait, now I get your point.
I've already got Monique and am addicted; just getting the power amp now.
I don't know if I'd use the word "reserved" -- it's pretty muscular in the lows to my ear -- but there isn't much of a bump in the lows with the 112 relative to a lot of cabs, for sure, and I do hear a slight rise in the mids-to-upper mids, so maybe we do hear it the same. I agree with you on the percussive aspect (the "effortless punch" you described) of the cab, I just localize it (Oof!) in a different part of the anatomy.
And, yeah, I can't say too much about the Baer or the BAs since I haven't heard them, so I appreciate your description of them. If they really do reach lower than my 112 (which, again, isn't the deepest of the MAS cabs, but is pretty deep) and manage to stay tight doing it, then they're formidable cabs. Were I in your neck of the woods, I'd love to swing by and hear them.
On the opposite end of the spectrum from the über-cabs, I tried playing Mo' yesterday through one of Duke LeJeune's little DIY 110s (this one loaded with a Deltalite II). Then, just for kicks, put the 110 on top of the 110 sub from my Flex. This was only apartment playing, but it sounded surprisingly decent both ways -- the little 110 was thumpy and very mid-present on its own (though a bit boxy and obviously did not reach very high or very deep) and integrated better with the sub than I expected it to -- I'm half tempted to gig it that way, just to see. Not surprisingly, the 110 sounded much bigger with the sub. Surprisingly, chords and harmonics actually worked fairly well -- fumbled my way through part of Portrait of Tracy and... the rig was not the limiting factor.
I've said before that I sometimes wish Mo' had a little more extension/openness up top but, for all that, I still find that harmonics speak well and sound substantial with it. It's not a tweeter-dependent amp.Yeah, I like that the EQ isn't fiddly. I don't have to steady my hand before I use it.
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If I had to choose between keeping the Sensitivity knob and keeping the EQ, I'd keep the Sensitivity knob. Like a gain knob, it has some influence on the degree of compression and the harmonic content, but the control it offers over the note envelope is
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Totally agree. I call it the instrument adjust, because I use it to fine tune my tone for each bass. I have found the sweet spot on the Sensitivity for each one, and just dial her up according which bass I am using.
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