Mandantory Drug Tests

[UncleFluffy]

I also said, its the users fault they did the drugs, it's not their fault they became an addict. There's a huge difference. They became addicted because of poor choice they made to initially do the drugs, but after that, their brain changed. They did not voluntarily choose to be an addict.

This still makes no sense to me. I read it as equivalent to "it's the users fault they chose to play Russian Roulette, but it's not their fault their brains are splattered all over the wall". There's a direct causal relationship between one and the other.

Everything else in your comment I agree with, though

 

[sonic assassin]

You say things like these people should be wiped off the face of the Earth. I have to ask you, what type of human being are you that would wish things like this on other human beings. It sounds to me like you have a massive inferiority complex.

Your logic about "only the strong survive" is extremely faulty and selfish. It may work in the animal kingdom, but we're human beings. We are supposed to be the most intelligent species of animal on the planet. Perhaps, just perhaps, "the strongest" in our species case is at an intellectual level rather than a physical one?

its a superiority complex, thankyouverymuch

the idea of loving thy fellow man is complete bollocks.

we are animals. because we have the ability to reason, we think we are the best, and thats ridiculous.

 

[sonic assassin]

You'd be surprised at how little it can take to impede on someone elses life.

Say you have your coffee, do whatever it is you're doing, as the caffeine is starting to wear off, you go for a drive, due to the after effects of that caffeine, your reactions are a fraction slower.....you hit a child that you would've otherwise avoided?

Obviously a very intentionally improbable scenario, but not impossible.

what part of this arent you getting? i drink coffee maybe once a month. and its frappeccino, not black columbian. its coffee flavored ice cream, if anything.

you're grasping at straws

 

[warwick.hoy]

One man's hard line stance is another man's selfish intolerance and intolerance is something that this world could use a lot less off.

I'm not saying it's easy to be friends with someone dealing with addiction problems and most people write addicts off with a snap of their fingers. It takes real courage and real toughness and a real friend to stick with it, show tough love and help someone out.

I've watched a friend battle with binge drinking and I am close enough with them to deal with awkward and stressful nights and the inconvenience to help him with his problem and you know what, we are better friends because of it. You can rest assured that following mornings he received detail report of his actions and embarrassments to serve as reminders that he was not in control. I could have copped out along with everyone else but how does that help the situation?

FWIW this friend has a steady and strong woman now and that has put him in a good place in his life. He holds down a steady job is not a burden on society and is in control of his drinking. If I had kicked him the curb I fear how his life may have turned.

 

[sonic assassin]

Exceptions eh? Smells like backpedalling into grey areas now...

stop trying to corner me. its not going to work.

i flat out said that theres a 1 in a million exception that can handle their alcohol. i still find it unnecessary and negligent, but of all of those people, it is the LEAST bad.

 

[Hawaii Islander]

This still makes no sense to me. I read it as equivalent to "it's the users fault they chose to play Russian Roulette, but it's not their fault their brains are splattered all over the wall". There's a direct causal relationship between one and the other.

Everything else in your comment I agree with, though

Smoke one cigarette or smoke a pack a day for a year, the choice to start smoking is a choice. Problem is the starting point of the addiction is not known. It may be after the first cigarette or after cigarette number 7300. Different people respond to the drug nicotine in different ways for a number of biologcal reasons (many of which are still not known). So, the choice could yield to addiction at any point after the initial use. Upon which time, the person no longer is dealing with a simple matter of choice.

 

[dj150888]

what part of this arent you getting? i drink coffee maybe once a month. and its frappeccino, not black columbian. its coffee flavored ice cream, if anything.

you're grasping at straws

No I'm not, I'm pointing out the ridiculousness of the hardline stance you have against anything that varies slightly from what you do.


For the record, drinking coffee once a month would make you more suceptible to the effects of caffeine. Also, a Starbucks Frappacino has more caffeine content than an esspresso. Its by no means a low-caffeine drink.

 

[sonic assassin]

One man's hard line stance is another man's selfish intolerance and intolerance is something that this world could use a lot less off.

It takes real courage and real toughness and a real friend to stick with it, show tough love and help someone out.

I've watched a friend battle with binge drinking and I am close enough with them to deal with awkward and stressful nights and the inconvenience to help him with his problem and you know what, we are better friends because of it.

racial intolerance, social class intolerance, cultural intolerance, all bad.

being intolerant of stupid people should be encouraged. otherwise we will continue to regress as a species.

and i commend your efforts. clearly this person accepted your help. i offer that same help, but if i am denied, i dont bother.

 

[dj150888]

stop trying to corner me. its not going to work.

i flat out said that theres a 1 in a million exception that can handle their alcohol. i still find it unnecessary and negligent, but of all of those people, it is the LEAST bad.

And simple as, if there are ANY exceptions, the entire, "everything is black and white" principle is gone. If they're the LEAST bad, you've just opened up your very own, very first shade of grey. I'm not trying to "corner" you, you're doing it perfectly well yourself.

 

[sonic assassin]

No I'm not, I'm pointing out the ridiculousness of the hardline stance you have against anything that varies slightly from what you do.

For the record, drinking coffee once a month would make you more suceptible to the effects of caffeine. Also, a Starbucks Frappacino has more caffeine content than an esspresso. Its by no means a low-caffeine drink.

coffee doesnt make you run into peoples homes and kill them for money to buy more coffee.

i spent my early teenhood drinking mt dew by the gallon. me and caffeine are just fine.

its not about what i do. i dont think a lot of people should do some of the things i do.

but i dont think anyone should engage in substance use or break the law. thats a pretty commonly agreed upon thing.

 

[sonic assassin]

And simple as, if there are ANY exceptions, the entire, "everything is black and white" principle is gone. If they're the LEAST bad, you've just opened up your very own, very first shade of grey. I'm not trying to "corner" you, you're doing it perfectly well yourself.

the words black and white were never spoken by me.

what i said was there was a line. most people cross it. some are standing on the line slowly falling backwards.

 

[sonic assassin]

Upon which time, the person no longer is dealing with a simple matter of choice.

thats where will power and good judgment should kick in. its a shame it rarely does.

 

[dj150888]

coffee doesnt make you run into peoples homes and kill them for money to buy more coffee.

i spent my early teenhood drinking mt dew by the gallon. me and caffeine are just fine.

its not about what i do. i dont think a lot of people should do some of the things i do.

but i dont think anyone should engage in substance use or break the law. thats a pretty commonly agreed upon thing.

I've never broken in to anyones house and killed them for money to buy beer. So what? I've been drunk, many times. I've never in my life been drunk and gotten into a fight, driven a car, damaged anyones property or had an effect on anyone but myself. I never get so drunk that I risk any of those things.

My drug is legal, so is yours. You're the one with such a "bold line", to use your own term, so wheres the difference, apart from the fact that you enjoy one and not the other?

 

[dj150888]

the words black and white were never spoken by me.

what i said was there was a line. most people cross it. some are standing on the line slowly falling backwards.

You may not have explicitly used the words, "black and white", however, when I mentioned the grey areas of life, you described them as, "happy-go-lucky" grey areas.....there is an obvious implication to that statement. If you can have a line, with people slowly falling backwards, why can't you have a line with people firmly stood on it? I know people who have a single glass of wine with their dinner in the evening. Those people are hardly, "falling backwards" into alcoholism. Your hardline stance might make sense in your own fantasy world, but like I said earlier, reality is a whole lot more complex.

 

[GregC]

coffee doesnt make you run into peoples homes and kill them for money to buy more coffee.

Neither does marijuana, to my knowledge. And yet, as fdeck and others pointed out earlier, the drug testing you and others support has a far, far better chance of catching marijuana users than those who use harder drugs.

 

[sonic assassin]

I've never broken in to anyones house and killed them for money to buy beer. So what? I've been drunk, many times. I've never in my life been drunk and gotten into a fight, driven a car, damaged anyones property or had an effect on anyone but myself. I never get so drunk that I risk any of those things.

My drug is legal, so is yours. You're the one with such a "bold line", to use your own term, so wheres the difference, apart from the fact that you enjoy one and not the other?

maybe you're one of them too, but it would be ignorant of you to rule out the possibility that alcohol could make you dangerous.

caffeine in humanly amounts would not

 

[UncleFluffy]

Smoke one cigarette or smoke a pack a day for a year, the choice to start smoking is a choice.

Yes.

Problem is the starting point of the addiction is not known.

But the possibility of it happening is known, well in advance of the first use.

It may be after the first cigarette or after cigarette number 7300.

... it may be after the first pull of the trigger or the 7300th ...

Different people respond to the drug nicotine in different ways for a number of biologcal reasons (many of which are still not known). So, the choice could yield to addiction at any point after the initial use. Upon which time, the person no longer is dealing with a simple matter of choice.

I agree, but I still don't understand the "people don't choose to become addicts" part of the claim. If I know that doing X will (eventually) result in Y, then I can't say "I chose X but I didn't choose Y" any more than I can say "I hit myself with a rock but I didn't choose to experience pain".

 

[sonic assassin]

You may not have explicitly used the words, "black and white", however, when I mentioned the grey areas of life, you described them as, "happy-go-lucky" grey areas.....there is an obvious implication to that statement. If you can have a line, with people slowly falling backwards, why can't you have a line with people firmly stood on it? I know people who have a single glass of wine with their dinner in the evening. Those people are hardly, "falling backwards" into alcoholism. Your hardline stance might make sense in your own fantasy world, but like I said earlier, reality is a whole lot more complex.

your gray area. not mine. you want a gray area, i consider your system naive.

again, alcohol use is an exponential curve ending in death.

as inhibitions fade, you drink more, and vice versa.

if you can stop at 1 or 2, then great. but the potential for tragedy is always there.

its like buying a gun. you're more likely to shoot someone if you have access to a gun. moreso than someone without a gun. once you've taken that step, you can be dangerous, regardless of your intentions.

 

[sonic assassin]

Neither does marijuana, to my knowledge. And yet, as fdeck and others pointed out earlier, the drug testing you and others support has a far, far better chance of catching marijuana users than those who use harder drugs.

of course. yes. how could i forget. according to america (especially california), pot is juuuuust fine. not like people shoot each other over it.

 

[dj150888]

maybe you're one of them too, but it would be ignorant of you to rule out the possibility that alcohol could make you dangerous.

caffeine in humanly amounts would not

I know people who are total a**holes when they don't get their caffeine. I know what I'm like under the influence of alcohol. The worst I might do is laugh a bit loudly. I know some people who are a**holes when they're drunk. I don't associate with those people when they're drinking, if at all.

What I don't do is suggest that a guy who likes a couple of beers, or even a couple too many beers is as bad as a murderer or a rapist, without knowing the full situation.