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Metallica...what went wrong

#101
FenderPeg said:
True, but I have never really cared for Megadeath. I just thought Dave got the shaft how they left him hanging with no money outta town and told to grab a bus, then laughed about it in cliff em all. No one deserves that but it must have made for some deep angry desire to produce something.
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Okay, well everyone else got Rust in Peace, I got Youthanasia, Dave got a "solo career" (no one else in Metallica has one), and you got... nothing. Most people benefited. Can't [del]kill[/del] win 'em all.:|
 
#102
Henry Rollins had a good take on old man rock and why he decided against taking part in any of the Black Flag reunion bands that are currently touring. He said he wouldn't be interested in watching men in their 50s playing 35-year-old songs that were written by men in their 20s.
 
#103
ster said:
The type of metal Metallica played (thrash, speed–whatever) is based on angst, rebelliousness, disillusionment etc. Once they made millions and got a little older, they no longer lived the hardcore lifestyle which is IMO essential to great rock or metal. Big comfortable houses in super-nice areas, fancy cars, good food and vacations around the world doesn’t produce good metal.

Like Jack Black said in The School of Rock, “You’re not hardcore, unless you live hardcore."
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There are plenty of metal bands who remain quite powerful in sound despite being older and no longer "living hardcore."
 
#105
Sartori said:
Agreed. Undertow is pretty awesome, but I prefer Lateralus, and if I'm going to listen to an album straight through, 10,000 Days is pretty amazing.
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Oh no doubt, undertow is a brilliant record. I'll spin that one any day of the week. I just enjoy the latter stuff a little more now a days. 10,000 days is most def one of those albums you need to listen as a whole. They've been around for over 20 years and just keep getting better. Whenever they come out with a new one, it'll be even better than the last. They're just good like that. Great musicians right there. And they're getting up there.....
 
#106
AaronVonRock said:
Neurosis is a perfect example of a band that was better and more ferocious when they were younger. Listen to their first 2 albums when they were a hardcore band. When they changed their sound on the next 3 albums, they were still ferocious. For the last 12+ years, they have 9 minute songs with 7 minutes of wank and 2 minutes of spank.
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I can't agree with this at all. Anger isn't the only thing that appeals to me, even in metal.

I love Through Silver in Blood, but I also love the last two albums, which I think are brilliant.

Also, since their mid career period, their songs have gotten shorter, not longer.
 
#107
Sartori said:
There are plenty of metal bands who remain quite powerful in sound despite being older and no longer "living hardcore."
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Quite powerful in sound and good music are two different things. Anyone can “sound” heavy. Maybe there are some metal bands that continue to make decent music, it just becomes fake if their music was based on rebelliousness etc.. They no longer have a real connection with their young angst ridden audience they once had.

Look at it this way, Metal was born on the streets of the dirty, smoggy, decaying city of Birmingham England, not Beverly Hills.
 
#109
ster said:
Quite powerful in sound and good music are two different things. Anyone can “sound” heavy. Maybe there are some metal bands that continue to make decent music, it just becomes fake if their music was based on rebelliousness etc.. They no longer have a real connection with their young angst ridden audience they once had.

Look at it this way, Metal was born on the streets of the dirty, smoggy, decaying city of Birmingham England, not Beverly Hills.
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*Shrugs*

I think you have kind of a narrow view of metal. I meant powerful in both sound and in musical quality. Not all metal is about being rebellious, exactly.
 
#111
REMBO said:
i saw them with cliff! it was awesome! i stopped listening after "justice"....the black album is where they lost me.... i never looked back after that... sorry to say!
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Lucky! I saw them right after Cliff died, November 1986 one of the first shows with Jason. I bought the tickets when Cliff was still alive. I must say Jason did a HELL of a job. Still sucks I didn’t get to see Cliff.
 
#113
Sartori said:
Cliff could probably never truly be adequately replaced, but I always thought Jason got way too much flak. Dude's a hell of a player.
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Yeah, Cliff had a certain something about him. His aura, his personality, his mean sound and of course his harmonies. Jason got flak for not being Cliff. Which was too bad because he was great and knew how rock hard. Too bad they never really let him contribute much.
 
#115
Plantbrain said:
I think the Cliff era was the best. Jason did well for his style I think, better than the last few albums I would suggest. But it's been a slow painful death.

What they should have done?

Hired Les.

I will always hate them for that.
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You weren't going to hear him in the mix, why sandbag a talented bassist with the job?
 
#116
I own Kill Em All and Ride The Lightning, I never play anything from either. I own everything else but Lulu, all of which I still listen to. St. Anger included.

I'm still the first person to mock them about music piracy or mixing, but they have never stopped putting out things I like to listen to.

AaronVonRock said:
Exactly. Rock n' roll is a young man's game. Name me one rock band that had better output when they were in their middle age/senior years than when they were young.
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Slayer.

AaronVonRock said:
I have never heard anyone else on the planet have that opinion. You are a unique person. Fair enough, though.

It reminds of an ex-coworker who loved AC/DC but didn't like the Bon Scott-era material. He referred to that as "AC/DC: The Demo Years". You just can't reason with someone like that.
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I make two, then. I'll second your coworker's thinking also, but it doesn't stop with Bon Scott. "One scale, four chords, how many different ways can we play it?" Not enough, apparently.

cronker said:
I remember very well when punk originally broke in 76/77 and when it died, it was replaced by New Romantic and then hair rock. Until Nirvana and Soundgarden etc broke that mold. Dance and techno came through in the early 90's and innovation has been fairly splintered since then. We've had a mini-reconnaissance of alt-county/folk and the machine of teen pop just keeps rolling on. But we are about ready for a truly innovative new sound to break. IMHO.
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Two man or blues rock trios is still where my money is. We just haven't seen enough Black Keys clones yet for it to be apparent.
 
#117
This is kind of off topic and I already stated my opinion of the band, but I will say that I totally respect Robert Trujillo as a player and person. His selflessness actions that he did for the Pastorius family rescuing the Bass of Doom was something to really admire. I cant wait until the documentary is released.
 
#119
Lets fix some things here......
Dave left the band? Huh? Unless you have the ' no life till leather" EP. you do not have a studio recording of Dave even in the band. And cliff didnt even play on that.... that was the ORIGINAL bass player ron mcgovney. Dave was replaced before " kill em all" was fully recorded...and his solos already laid down were cut out. So....yeah.....that's not it. Dave leaving had nothing to do with the bands demise....as it wasn't barely even a band yet. ( I think cliff and dave only played 2 shows together. And NO studio recordings that I know of...) in fact- dave leaving MADE the band in the sense that ron McGovern left because of dave, and so cliff joined. And then cliff was one of the main voices in Dave's ejection.

Metallica didn't "sell out" per se - as they were at the top of their genre and doing just fine before the black album. While. The "one" video was their first step towards mainsteam..... other bands of their peers had already released videos- slayer anthrax and megadeth included. Granted.... they went from making millions to making multimillions..... but hey.... again.... they just did an album of different music and the mainstream came to them. The heaviest thing on the radio at the time was ( arguably) Alice in chains. It wasn't like they said....hmmm.... metal is really taking off- but not thrash! Lets tone it down so we can sell more albums! ( I'm sure bob rock was saying that all the way to the bank...)
 
#120
chuck norriss said:
ever since jason quit and they did that whiny documentary. so embarrassing. they're still good and their lives don't suck but they lost their hunger & that edge. they should start over.
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I don't know of any band that's been able to keep that "new band hunger" for 30 years. Pretty tall order. Bands can still make some good music, but to be able to recreate what made the first few albums so incredible 30 years on would be hard. and even if they did people would just complain they weren't growing at all. Success at that level has its drawbacks.
 

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