My New Zero Tolerance Craigslist Attitude.

[FingerDub]

Well, not a bad way to spend the day when your couch bound I guess.
Hope you're better today and someone with enough jam calls for your bass soon.

I sold the bass 2 days later to one of the other first responders.

 

[bassliner50]

My business lives and dies by the contracts it negotiates. So I’ve got three decades of business negotiations under my belt. And while I always tried for a win-win when it came to a contract, I know from experience that not every negotiation is going to go smoothly. Which is probably why I’m seeing this exchage of words a bit differently from most other posts here.

Anyway, here goes my take:

1. OP misquoted price on phone but decided to honor his misquote. (And seemed to be pissed off about his own mistake.)

2. Guy makes joke about getting a lower price on way up due to traffic. (Putting a “haha” in a text message is the standard protocol and acceoted way to clearly indicate you’re just kidding.)

3. OP responds with a self righteous mini-rant and very unpolitely tells him to go home.

4. Guy, seeing how seller’s feathers are ruffled, tries to calm things down by telling him forget what he texted since it obviously wasn’t being taken as the joke it was. Repeats his offer to pay the agreed upon price of $600.

5. OP backs out of deal.

6. Guy, who’s almost at the end of an hour plus drive in traffic, justifiably gets angry.

7. OP doubles down by responding in kind.

About all I can conclude is that the OP was pissed he misquoted the price by $50 (which he tries to justify by saying he could easily get all day) despite his own decision to honor it when he could have easily gone back to the seller and corrected his mistake. So he was (hopefully subconsciously) looking for an excuse to get out of the sale. And an innocuous semi jesting comment from the buyer (who was already en route with cash in hand for the agreed upon $600) gave him the “excuse” he was looking for.

The outcome is what’s called “flouncing” on the part of the seller. Which is to say calling off a deal after the fact and storming off for purely personal rather tgan business reasons.

FWIW, if this occurred over a regular commercial business transaction it could be considered a breach of contract and could lead to legal liability on the part of the seller. The seller made an offer, which was accepted by the buyer who was attempting to tender payment to complete the transaction when the seller called it off for no reason other than the seller was having a bad day. Butthurt is not a valid business reason for canceling an agreement.

Fortunately, broken CL and personal deals seldom get to that level of seriousness.

tl:dr - Much as I’d like to back my fellow TBer on this one, I have to think the OP was totally in the wrong based on the information in his first post.

So in the spirit of his concluding comment about playing the game, I’d like to suggest that if you’re going to play the game, you might also try to loosen up a bit. And maybe grow a slightly thicker skin.

I like your style of breaking down the OP's statement into manageable events. Easier to apply rational judgement to. Clearly I would have collected the $600 and bypassed the unnecessary stress.

 

[MordBass]

You make good points. But I’ve found “preemptive strikes” in a business situation far more often tend to be rationalized after the fact than justified. You can cite a real counter example or a hypothetical to make a good case for taking a different approach. But if you confine the assessment to the actual case the OP presented here, I think the conclusion about who’s more in the right is pretty inescapable.

All depends on where your bar is for doing business. Not everybody selling on craigslist needs the money right that second. The buyer attempted to renege on the deal after he had the seller in, what he assumed, a more vulnerable position. To me, that means that the buyer might be an issue after the fact so why bother?
So yea, I agree that its pretty inescapable that the seller is in the right. The buyer violated their agreement in an effort to gain another discount.

 

[MordBass]

I read the entire thread. and I didn't ask any questions. it was a statement. follow along

do you really think the buyer drove an hour with the intention of not actually showing up if he didn't get it for 550?

Looks like a question to me.

 

[jnuts1]

do you really think the buyer drove an hour with the intention of not actually showing up if he didn't get it for 550?

Looks like a question to me.

Didn't you just enter the conversation at about the 400th post with "and the dude's talking about morals/right thing to do you really need to get over yourselves. the righteous indignation on this site is nauseating." ?
I already answered that question. Read the thread.

This is what I was responding to. You quoted me like this was a question I was asking. How am I supposed to know you are talking about something completed unrelated to the quoted text? Are you my wife? am I supposed to read your darn mind too?

 

[MordBass]

This is what I was responding to. You quoted me like this was a question I was asking. How am I supposed to know you are talking about something completed unrelated to the quoted text? Are you my wife? am I supposed to read your darn mind too?

I wasn't talking about something completely unrelated to the quoted text. I think at this point there are just too many replies and posts to discern hahaha

 

[Rapisme]

You might have missed the part where the buyer went home so it doesn’t matter what they said because the buyer never showed up.

After being told by the seller that the deal is no longer!
What as the buyer gonna do, knock on the sellers door so that the feud ensues into violence?

 

[MordBass]

Just an FYI for everybody coming in late, since it seems like a lot of comments have missed this... But post#72 has the OP stating that he wound up selling for full price to one of the initial responses to his ad.

So it wasnt his loss, and he didnt pick his hill to die on, and he didnt lose the deal...

 

[MordBass]

I don't think the OP is in the wrong. There was an agreed upon price. Then the buyer made up a story and wanted a lower price. That's fine, he can do that. However the seller reserves the right to no longer deal once a counter offer has been made. Tear up a contract, ask for a different contract and then tried to tape the original contract back together. Haggling is a two way street and the seller can walk away, just like the buyer can show up, look at the item and also walk away without buying it.

I feel like this is the main point here. Everything was settled... and then the buyer reopened negotiation. Once that failed, he immediately figured he'd just revert to the original deal... like having his cake and eating it too.

 

[MJ_Sotti]

Totally agree, I could have handled it better, and I have learned from this thread. I'm still not sorry though.

BS. I would have told him to bite me too.

 

[Cliff Colton]

I wasn’t aware the seller sold the bass. That’s great news! Now the only thing left to do is text the original buyer to tell him ‘I’m sorry’ and offer to sell him the bass for $550.

 

[40Hz]

All depends on where your bar is for doing business. Not everybody selling on craigslist needs the money right that second. The buyer attempted to renege on the deal after he had the seller in, what he assumed, a more vulnerable position. To me, that means that the buyer might be an issue after the fact so why bother?
So yea, I agree that its pretty inescapable that the seller is in the right. The buyer violated their agreement in an effort to gain another discount.

I guess it all depends on how you’re interpreting things. I think your interpretation is a bit if a stretch no matter how adept the mental gymnastics needed to reach that conclusion. The deal was done. The buyer was ready to proceed at the agreed upon price he had with the seller. The buyer did not reneg. He did not say “$550 or I turn around.” He said (1) to forget what he just said, (2) was almost there,(c) would pay $600 as agreed. So please don’t try to rewrite the words that were was actually said or change the reality of the actual situation.

Arguing the buyer might be a problem after the fact is pure conjecture. Maybe he may or may not end up being one. But you’d have little to go on either way from what’s been shared. So that’s a rush to judgement leading to that preemptive strike I mentioned in my earlier post. One that’s faux justified after the fact (i.e. “the buyer might be an issue”) than based on anything that actually happened is appears likely to happen. This is something I see people doing all the time. And one big reason contracts gave gotten so fat along with the paychecks of the attorneys drafting them. It’s one thing to be reasonably prudent. It’s another thing to walk around like the world is out to get you and you’re perpetually under seige.

Getting away from all that, if something as trivial as tossing in another number at the last minute (either as a bit of banter or a negotiating tactic) is enough to put a person into a tailspin and call off a done sale, I really think said person needs to lighten up a lot -or- be a lit less less prickly. Because a jive move like that is behaving like a diva.

Especially since all conjecture getting tossed about over this particular incident is just that - conjecture. Confined to the facts that were definitely known in the first post (which I’m basing my entire opinion on) the decision to abort was entirely the seller’s. And the only real purpose it accomplishes is to punish the buyer for saying something the seller didn’t like. Facts are: what the buyer said had no bearing on the actual sale terms ($600); or the dollar amount ($600) of the transaction that was about to take place. Any drama was entirely of the seller’s making.

If an acquaintance says something to you that you don’t appreciate, you probably have some justification in feeling annoyed. But there’s nothing in anything as minor as that to justify doing something totally spiteful to that person. That’s just basic morality and exercising some rational discretion before acting.

Or so I think anyway.

And with this post I think I’ve said all I really have to say on the subject. Especially since I’ve had repeatedly keep reiterating the facts as presented. I’m tired if reoeating mysekf. And I’m sure people are getting tired if me doing it. So I’ll rest my case with this post and leave it here. The rest of you please carry on. This thread has been one of the more interesting reads (on several levels) I’ve ever seen here.

My only hope is that our brother @FingerDub didnt take my comments as some sort of personal attack on him. I automatically separate an action taken from the person him or herself. “Weigh the act - not the person.” Because I don’t think everything we do is always an accurate reflection of who we really are. A lot of times situations get the better of us and we act out of character. So though I probably sounded critical, I just want to make it clear that any criticism of mine is being directed at a specific action and not the person. I can have a lot of respect for someone (and I do have respect for FingerDub) yet still be able to disagree with one of their actions or opinions. Bottom line: there’s so much more to each of us than just our most recent deeds or thoughts. And I think it’s very important to remember that when advancing or receiving opinions.

<40Hz out.>

 

[MordBass]

I guess it all depends on how you’re interpreting things. I think your interpretation is a bit if a stretch no matter how adept the mental gymnastics needed to reach that conclusion. The deal was done. The buyer was ready to proceed at the agreed upon price he had with the seller. The buyer did not reneg. He did not say “$550 or I turn around.” He said (1) to forget what he just said, (2) was almost there,(c) would pay $600 as agreed. So please don’t try to rewrite the words that were was actually said or change the reality of the actual situation.

Arguing the buyer might be a problem after the fact is pure conjecture. Maybe he may or may not end up being one. But you’d have little to go on either way from what’s been shared. So that’s a rush to judgement leading to that preemptive strike I mentioned in my earlier post. One that’s faux justified after the fact (i.e. “the buyer might be an issue”) than based on anything that actually happened is appears likely to happen. This is something I see people doing all the time. And one big reason contracts gave gotten so fat along with the paychecks of the attorneys drafting them. It’s one thing to be reasonably prudent. It’s another thing to walk around like the world is out to get you and you’re perpetually under seige.

Getting away from all that, if something as trivial as tossing in another number at the last minute (either as a bit of banter or a negotiating tactic) is enough to put a person into a tailspin and call off a done sale, I really think said person needs to lighten up a lot -or- be a lit less less prickly. Because a jive move like that is behaving like a diva.

Especially since all conjecture getting tossed about over this particular incident is nust tyat - conjecture. Confined to the facts that were definitely known in the first post (which I’m basing my entire opinion on) the decision to abort was entirely the seller’s. And the only real purpose it accomplishes is to punish the buyer for saying something the seller didn’t like. Facts are: what the buyer said had no bearing on the actual sale terms ($600); or the dollar amount ($600) of the transaction that was about to take place. Any drama was entirely of the seller’s making.

If an acquaintance says something to you that you don’t appreciate, you probably have some justification in feeling annoyed. But there’s nothing in anything as minor as that to justify doing something totally spiteful to that person. That’s just basic morality and exercising some rational discretion before acting.

Or so I think anyway.

And with this post I think I’ve said all I really have to say on the subject. Especially since I’ve had repeatedly keep reiterating the facts as presented. I’m tired if reoeating mysekf. And I’m sure people are getting tired if me doing it. So I’ll rest my case with this post and leave it here. The rest of you please carry on. This thread has been one of the more interesting reads (on several levels) I’ve ever seen here.

My only hope is that our brother @FingerDub didnt take my comments as some sort of personal attack on him personally. I automatically separate an action taken from the person of him or herself. “Weight the act - not the person.” Because I don’t think everything we do is always an accurate reflection of who we really are. A lot of times situations get the better of us and we act out of character. So though I probably sounded critical, I just want to make it clear that any criticism of mine is being directed at a specific action and not the person. I can have a lot of respect for someone (and I do have respect for FingerDub) yet still be able to disagree with one of their actions or opinions. Bottom line: there’s so much more to each of us than just our most recent deeds or thoughts. And I think it’s very important to remember that when giving or receiving opinions.

<40Hz out.>

Whats funny is that despite our replies being well written and thorough, its still just that one point. I dont feel it takes any mental gymnastics to say that the buyer reneged by asking for another discount. Especially when he needlessly added his thoughts of turning around and bailing on the deal. He knew what he was doing.

The best part of this is that despite you and I not agreeing on this, I'm willing to bet that we'd be perfectly fine buyers or sellers for one another. Additionally, I love that we can stay on point and not make any personal attacks in even the slightest way.

You sir, have yourself a fantastic day.

 

[blue4]

No need to go for a reach on this one. So you would agree that this incident was handled in the best possible manner?

Let's take a moment to think about this...its Craigslist. The trust factor is often thin; people want something for nothing; and your relying on the good word of the seller and the buyer. There is no receipt or customer backing of you get screwed and deals can get dangerous really quick. I've seen guns present on two of my encounters.

Yes, how one holds themselves and behaves is a critical factor. This ain't Ebay - nothing is guaranteed good or bad. High fiving this behavior will lead to bad results. A little kindness goes a long ways.

I didn't say it was handled correctly, nor did I high five anyone. I believe I said if I was FORCED to pick a side I would take the seller's. Hardly a sparkling endorsement. However I don't feel like this one story qualifies myself or anyone else to accurately judge someone else's entire moral character. The fact that you seem to be willing to speaks as much about your moral character as this story speaks to his. You've never lost your temper? I guess not. I mean, the OP has admitted that he wasn't his finest version of himself. He's also taken 20+ pages of criticism without losing his temper. Counts for nothing I guess. He's just a bad person, nothing to be done.

 

[MegaSwing]

I had four interested parties in the first day of listing it. I sold it two days later for full price to one of them.

A happy ending. Nice.

 

[Tampabass]

Anyone who blows a cork over someone merely asking about a lower price probably isn't cut out for buying and selling used goods.

 

[SLIV]

This has been a fascinating thread. Honestly, I was taken aback by the support for the buyer and it made me try to figure out A) why the support existed and B) why I personally agree with the seller.

I think it comes down to the idea that I hate haggling and especially haggling after the haggling is over. For many of you, haggling is a kind of sport, or "just business." I've heard the phrase "it's not personal." I believe you all who say this. I do.

But for me, it's different. Haggling IS personal. It feels like an insult to meet and have someone lie to my face, to claim they only brought X amount of money even though we agreed to a different price, to not take "firm" to mean what it means (echos of "no means no"....) I don't want to screw over a buyer or a seller and I don't want someone trying to screw over me. I don't want leverage nor do I want to be leveraged. I want a "win-win" or no deal.

But if two people love haggling, I guess the rules are different.

 

[Raw N Low]

I didn't say it was handled correctly, nor did I high five anyone. I believe I said if I was FORCED to pick a side I would take the seller's. Hardly a sparkling endorsement. However I don't feel like this one story qualifies myself or anyone else to accurately judge someone else's entire moral character. The fact that you seem to be willing to speaks as much about your moral character as this story speaks to his. You've never lost your temper? I guess not. I mean, the OP has admitted that he wasn't his finest version of himself. He's also taken 20+ pages of criticism without losing his temper. Counts for nothing I guess. He's just a bad person, nothing to be done.

I was speaking about this thread as a whole. Go back and read my initial post. Yes, there were some that were condoning and endorsing this behavior. There was lots of good advice by some as to how one should be handled.

By looking at the sum of the parts, he wanted to sell a bass and the buyer wanted to get a little more wiggle room. It's happened to just about anyone who's ever wanted to sell or buy something on a public platform. There's RISK involved, so be smart about it. Things happen and there's no guarantee from any side. There's no contract or store policy to mitigate what might happen upon contact. Sellers sometimes price an item way too high and buyers sometimes lowball. 95% of my music gear is used and bought second hand. I've been there and done that. Bottom line is, the buyer determines value and what they wanna pay. In this case the buyer tested the waters and was still willing to honor the agreed price. He invested (gas) and lost more (time) than the seller did.

Reading between the lines, it's apparent I'm discussing the topic at hand and not the "entire" makeup of those posting to this thread. However, I'd be foolish to not use this as a learning tool and what to expect in any future dealings. Again, no need to reach and make it something it's not. I'm just looking at it as face value.

 

[blue4]

I was speaking about this thread as a whole. Go back and read my initial post. Yes, there were some that were condoning and endorsing this behavior. There was lots of good advice by some as to how one should be handled.

By looking at the sum of the parts, he wanted to sell a bass and the buyer wanted to get a little more wiggle room. It's happened to just about anyone who's ever wanted to sell or buy something on a public platform. There's RISK involved, so be smart about it. Things happen and there's no guarantee from any side. There's no contract or store policy to mitigate what might happen upon contact. Sellers sometimes price an item way too high and buyers sometimes lowball. 95% of my music gear is used and bought second hand. I've been there and done that. Bottom line is, the buyer determines value and what they wanna pay. In this case the buyer tested the waters and was still willing to honor the agreed price. He invested (gas) and lost more (time) than the seller did.

Reading between the lines, it's apparent I'm discussing the topic at hand and not the "entire" makeup of those posting to this thread. However, I'd be foolish to not use this as a learning tool and what to expect in any future dealings. Again, no need to reach and make it something it's not. I'm just looking at it as face value.

I did go back and read your post. And read my responses to your posts. I don't think you read my responses. You clearly were talking about the whole thread in the first post. And I responded that the same way by saying it's not appropriate to judge someone else's opinion of another's experience. So far we're talking about the thread. Your next post was about the OP. And I responded in regards to the OP.
I wasn't reading between the lines. I was going off what you actually said. You first judged everyone, then just the OP. If there was something else between the lines, you'll have to forgive me but I don't see it.

 

[BadSanta1281]

Less time and energy was spent by the prospective buyer that fateful day than by those of us here passing judgement on the failed transaction.