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New Squier? Or used Fender?
- Thread starter Adam Bomb
- Start date
Less than a week ago folks on this board were complaining about how inconsistent Fender QC has gotten
Yeah, I understand that. It doesn't help your position one bit that somehow the wood used in Fenders is consistently "better" than that used in Squiers. I'm curious about what attributes of the alder used in Squiers is inferior to the alder used in Fenders.
I'm pretty sure no Squier basses are currently made from ply. I'm pretty sure that only a few instruments from one Korean factory about 20 years ago were ever made from plywood. But I haven't exactly done a comprehensive study, and I don't think Squier's telling. Frankly, I think it's gained approximately urban legend status.
You made the contention that there was no comparison between the MIJ Squiers and today's CV and VM series Squiers. I still don't understand why you say that.
LOL. I'm pretty sure I never stated either of those positions. In fact, I'm absolutely positive of it.
I just stopped by the local shop over the lunch hour and they have a used FRETLESS MIM Jazz for well under $400. Pretty decent too!!! 
THe Korean Squier II 's from the late 80's had LAMINATED bodies, not plywood. IIRC, they were made by Samick or Young & Chang. I had a SQ II Strat, a nice playing instrument, but still not worth much more than $100..............
And not even all of them. My '89 Squier II E serial number is not ply/laminate (this instrument is excellent in every way). I have a 94 (I think it's an S serial) is ply/laminate (this one, not so much).
(I'm working from memory here on the S/N's, so I'll correct later if I'm wrong.)
okcrum
in your chest
Less than a week ago folks on this board were complaining about how inconsistent Fender QC has gotten
Yeah, I understand that. It doesn't help your position one bit that somehow the wood used in Fenders is consistently "better" than that used in Squiers. I'm curious about what attributes of the alder used in Squiers is inferior to the alder used in Fenders.
I'm pretty sure no Squier basses are currently made from ply. I'm pretty sure that only a few instruments from one Korean factory about 20 years ago were ever made from plywood. But I haven't exactly done a comprehensive study, and I don't think Squier's telling. Frankly, I think it's gained approximately urban legend status.
You made the contention that there was no comparison between the MIJ Squiers and today's CV and VM series Squiers. I still don't understand why you say that.
LOL. I'm pretty sure I never stated either of those positions. In fact, I'm absolutely positive of it.
Read the thread. The positions have been stated as part of this thread, while ignoring the prices real people buy real basses for. I don't believe I said they were your positions, either.
I said the wood's different, not better. Indonesian Squiers have been ply; my buddy has a Squier MII plywood P bass. Ply, not laminated. He found that out when he routed it for a J pickup. It's only urban legend for Squier fanbois.
Since you've ignored the fact that wood ages for several posts, I don't expect you would hear any difference between the old MIJ Squier's and the CV and VMs of today.
EDIT: You might want to read up on grades and cuts of wood within the same types, or different approaches to lamination, to talk about better woods or methods of construction..
That is not typical of Squiers, not anymore. Not even their low end Affinitys are plywood. Affinities are solid Alder. The rest of their lines are either two or three piece solid basswood, agathis, or in my case of my two MII VM's two piece soft maple. And whether or not the wood on either is "better" to he point of making one or the other a superior instrument is strictly a matter of opinion.
okcrum
in your chest
Well, opinion and physics, but yes, just opinion, if one ignores how electric guitars work in general. What I mean is that there is transfer of energy from string to neck to body to string (maybe a different one), so there are acoustic properties to consider.
Affinities are solid alder, as in one piece? I'm not sure anything but maybe some Custom Shop is one piece anymore. Even MIAs are 2 or 3.
Not that that's necessarily bad. Lamination can be done well, but each glue joint is another acoustic boundary in the wood. I think this is the biggest reason for the differences between supposedly identical instruments.
Not for nothin' but I just read a post on another thread where someone was saying (with a straight face, I assume) that a Lakland Skyline Duck Dunn he recently played was comparable to his CV Squier. Squier fans love their basses... They may be a little delusional at times, but their love their stuff. What's next - SX = Fodera?
But back to the OP - "In that situation, what would be the reason(s) for getting the Fender?"
The reasons are better resale value, better electronics, better hardware, better decal ;-) Since tone didn't matter much to the OP, I'd go with the one that had better resale value.
But back to the OP - "In that situation, what would be the reason(s) for getting the Fender?"
The reasons are better resale value, better electronics, better hardware, better decal ;-) Since tone didn't matter much to the OP, I'd go with the one that had better resale value.
No, I meant solid only as opposed to laminated plywood. I'm sure they are more than one piece, just that each piece is solid, like the rest of Squier's instruments.
That's a one-way trip and unless you plug the wood into an energy source to drive a wooden amplifier - no way does the wood shake the string hard enough to get 'energy' back into it.
Gads - that's a killer! Who writes your material?
I guess there'd also be dead people walking by the same logic; just play their favorite song and they'll get up and dance.
Hoohah!
NO acoustics involved - a sound-sink fer sure - but no reanimation of the strings - no way - no how.
Pardon me - I have to go now and replace the alder batteries in my wooden amplifier! I had them on the Bubinga charger all day.
Hoohah!
Whether or not someone may like their Squier more than an expensive Lakland is puerly pesonal taste, and to say that they are delusional because of that preference is a little insulting. Sure, a Lakland can be technically considered superior to a Squier, but if the Lakland doesn't appeal to someone as much as a Squier, who is to say they are wrong?
And as far as resale value, not everyone gives a toss about that. Some people care more about being comfortable with a bass and would like it keep it as long as possible if they enjoy it. And, If the OP isn't obssessing as much about tone either way as a lot of us do, then it doesn't matter which bass he gets, because whether or not the Fender has better tone is entirely subjective.
The OP asked what were the reasons to go with the Fender and I gave some. Whether or not the OP cares about resale value is irrelevant because resale value is one reason to choose one over the other.
And the person on the other thread said the Skyline was "comparable" to the Squier. He made no mention, nor did I, of liking one over the other. Sure, they both have electronics, bodies, strings and necks, but that's where the comparison ends.
The difference between Squire and Lakland is as simple as the difference between Pete Wentz and Darryl Jones.
... it took 52 posts on here before someone took the time to clarify what kind of "used Fender for $500" he was considering ... everyone just jumped that it was a MIM, and most implied a Standard ... could have been a Classic Series that was made MIM, or even a MIJ early model, a Hwy Series, etc ... pretty tough to offer a decent suggestion without the info ... JMHO
The OP asked what were the reasons to go with the Fender and I gave some. Whether or not the OP cares about resale value is irrelevant because resale value is one reason to choose one over the other.
The difference between Squire and Lakland is as simple as the difference between Pete Wentz and Darryl Jones.
Or, as I'm not familiar with either of those other than by name, I suppose you could say instead, the difference between "Duck" Dunn and Stanley Clarke. I personally think Dunn is a better bassist than Clarke. Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong.
It's not very hard or expensive to change hardware on a Squier. Why pay double for comparable tone just for hardware. It's not like Squier's hardware doesn't work. Both mine have no problems staying in tune and one is a bronco. tuners don't get much cheaper than that. My advice to the OP would be to honestly look at what the bass will be asked to do. If you tour multiple states and have good sized gigs, do the odd recording once an a while, or plan on making your living playing bass, save up and get a MIA. Maybe a Geddy Lee or even a G & L. If you're playing in a cover band down at the bar and taking it to jams with your friends, a Squier VM or CV will deliver what you need. And you'll not be sorry. Just play it before you buy.
notverygood said:
+1 to that!!
I've both a CV Squier and a MIJ Fender. Well while my Geddy is simply amazing, I don't feel like the Squier will let me down on a gig or recording.
Sent from my iPod touch using TalkBass
okcrum
in your chest
Well, riddle me this, then, Joe. When you pluck a string on your bass, why do the other strings vibrate, some less, some more, depending on the note? Why can you feel vibration in the neck and body? I'm talking about circulating acoustic energy, that damps out eventually, not some kind of zero point energy. Think it through, man!
Please don't tell me the bass is broken. Every EB I've ever played does it. Just because an EB doesn't have a sounding body cavity doesn't mean acoustics (as in mechanics of sound) are not involved in how it works and sounds.
I guess it's the lifetime alder batteries.
I can't be positive of the OP's experience but if it's anything like mine he might just walk out the store with a new Squire and a few hundred dollars left in his pocket.
In my case, I was at a Guitar Center and came across a used Fender MIA Jazz 5 that was fairly clean and played great, they only wanted about $600 for it - a steal for a great sounding 5er. I made the mistake of thinking about buying it overnight and when I went back the next day it was sold and gone. Kinda bummed I went to a nearby Sam Ash and found a used MIM Jazz 5 that played nearly as good as the MIA 5er at GC but they wanted $800 for it. Wasn't about to pay more for a MIM than a MIA so I passed on it and looked around the store a bit for other 5 strings. Stumbled across a Squire Affinity Jazz 5 in burst finish - looked nice but based on opinions here on TB I figured it would be a real dog in the sound, feel and quality department.
Man was I wrong, it played and sounded much better than the MIA 5 or the MIM 5 - actually there was no compairson. I checked out the price tag, and it was marked $229. The build quality was there as well. Bought it on the spot and got it home, plugged it into my SVT-VR/Bergantino rig and was in heaven, unf#@%ing believeable - rich deep lows, tight top end, killer punch, tons of sustain, lots of tone options. Then I plugged in my 2005 Fender American Deluxe Jazz Bass 5 (that I paid $1200 for new and sunk $800 in upgrades in to get it to sound the way I wanted) and played the two basses side by side. Needless to say, the American Deluxe went back in the case and I've been using the Squire ever sense - yes, it's that much better.
I do however still suffer with the Squire Headstock Logo stigma. However, as I said on another thread, if I really wanted to cheeze off a gear snob I'd bring my American Deluxe to a gig - AS MY BACKUP BASS - and use the Squire all night long.
In my case, I was at a Guitar Center and came across a used Fender MIA Jazz 5 that was fairly clean and played great, they only wanted about $600 for it - a steal for a great sounding 5er. I made the mistake of thinking about buying it overnight and when I went back the next day it was sold and gone. Kinda bummed I went to a nearby Sam Ash and found a used MIM Jazz 5 that played nearly as good as the MIA 5er at GC but they wanted $800 for it. Wasn't about to pay more for a MIM than a MIA so I passed on it and looked around the store a bit for other 5 strings. Stumbled across a Squire Affinity Jazz 5 in burst finish - looked nice but based on opinions here on TB I figured it would be a real dog in the sound, feel and quality department.
Man was I wrong, it played and sounded much better than the MIA 5 or the MIM 5 - actually there was no compairson. I checked out the price tag, and it was marked $229. The build quality was there as well. Bought it on the spot and got it home, plugged it into my SVT-VR/Bergantino rig and was in heaven, unf#@%ing believeable - rich deep lows, tight top end, killer punch, tons of sustain, lots of tone options. Then I plugged in my 2005 Fender American Deluxe Jazz Bass 5 (that I paid $1200 for new and sunk $800 in upgrades in to get it to sound the way I wanted) and played the two basses side by side. Needless to say, the American Deluxe went back in the case and I've been using the Squire ever sense - yes, it's that much better.
I do however still suffer with the Squire Headstock Logo stigma. However, as I said on another thread, if I really wanted to cheeze off a gear snob I'd bring my American Deluxe to a gig - AS MY BACKUP BASS - and use the Squire all night long.
