• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Official 2011-2012 NHL Regular Season Thread; Puck Drop

#805
Jeff K said:
Danny Briere gets a hat trick this afternoon as the Flyers beat the Sens 3-2 in O/T. Briere notched the game-winner with about 10 seconds left in O/T. Flyers had way too many giveaways though, and were fortunate to come away with the 2 points.

Oh yeah - Briere also got into a rare fight. Only the 5th fight in his career. No damage done to either of the combatants... ;) If he could have just picked up an assist, he'd have had the Gordy Howe hat trick...
Click to expand...

Only Briere's third career fight, not fifth.

FretlessMainly said:
Here's a two-part trivia question based on Jeff K's post:

1. How many Gordie Howe hat tricks did Gordie Howe have in his career?

2. Who currently holds the career record for Gordie Howe hat tricks?

It's a great stat (albeit unofficial), by the way.

Leave google alone, this is for fun.
Click to expand...

Gordie Howe only ever had one Gordie Howe hat trick. Seriously. He never understands why they call it that.

I don;t know who holds the record for the most.
 
#807
mkandolf said:
Only Briere's third career fight, not fifth.
Click to expand...

Fifth all-time. Third in the NHL. (I think they said he had two in juniors.)

As for today's game - not good. They played pretty well most of the game. Managed to get up 4-2, then let Ottawa score four unanswered goals. That's pretty rare for the Flyers to blow a lead that badly in the 3rd period.

I'm not sure what's gonna' happen with Bryzgalov. His confidence has to be just about shattered at this point. Laviolette gave him the back-to-back starts because he played pretty well yesterday. He played pretty well MOST of this game too, but collapsed down the stretch.
 
#808
FretlessMainly said:
Howe had two, not one. And Tocchet was in the lead for a while, but the current leader is none other than Brendan Shanahan.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Click to expand...

I see the stats show 2, both against Leafs teams, one in '53 and one in '54. I've seen him in interviews only admit to one though. I'll have to look up those game stats some day to see what they say. Maybe he's not counting one because of the order or because the one has two assists or something.

BTW, looks like Tocchet and Shanahan are tied with 17 Gordie Howe Hat Tricks for the all-time lead.

Jeff K said:
Fifth all-time. Third in the NHL. (I think they said he had two in juniors.)

As for today's game - not good. They played pretty well most of the game. Managed to get up 4-2, then let Ottawa score four unanswered goals. That's pretty rare for the Flyers to blow a lead that badly in the 3rd period.

I'm not sure what's gonna' happen with Bryzgalov. His confidence has to be just about shattered at this point. Laviolette gave him the back-to-back starts because he played pretty well yesterday. He played pretty well MOST of this game too, but collapsed down the stretch.
Click to expand...

At least the little guy knows how to handle himself. Kinda funny he knew how to wait for the other guy to drop the gloves simultaneously, then knew how to throw 'em. Don't know exactly what got Danny so fired up but when he brought his stick up between the guy's legs hard frmo behind... :scowl: No surprise they went right at it after coming out of the box.

As for Bryzgaov, me thinks the Flyers have themselves a head case and I don't think the team trusts him anymore. He can't handle the pressure in Philly and it shows.
 
#809
So the Preds trade talk is on fire right now, we've sent two players with significant playing time to the minors in the last week, and we've just got our captain back from injury. Such a busy week.

Biggest rumors: Trades for Jerome Iginla or Bobby Ryan
Rumors more likely to be true: Gleason (Car) or Sarich (CGY)

If anything, I'd like to see the Gleason deal happen. In my opinion, that solidifies our roster more than any of the deals being talked about would. Plus, Gleason wouldn't cost a fortune like Ryan or Iginla would. Not to mention Iginla would be a rental. Sarich could be had for as little as draft picks, and since we already dealt our second (and possible third) for Mike Fisher, we might as well sell of the rest of the 2012 draft...
 
#810
mkandolf said:
At least the little guy knows how to handle himself. Kinda funny he knew how to wait for the other guy to drop the gloves simultaneously, then knew how to throw 'em. Don't know exactly what got Danny so fired up but when he brought his stick up between the guy's legs hard frmo behind... :scowl: No surprise they went right at it after coming out of the box.

As for Bryzgaov, me thinks the Flyers have themselves a head case and I don't think the team trusts him anymore. He can't handle the pressure in Philly and it shows.
Click to expand...

I think what put a bee in Briere's bonnet was that after they were both down on the ice, the other guy shoved Danny's face down onto the ice while getting up. I think that's why Danny had the abrasion on his face the next day. I don't think he got it in the fight. I think his face scraped on the ice.

Yeah, Bryzgalov is a mess right now...
 
#811
Awesome post linked to on Predlines and OnTheForecheck:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Hockey is a sport that has been all about toughness from day one. Toughness is not all about fighting though. It’s about being willing to give or take a hit to make a play. It’s about taking time and space away from the opposition. It’s about blocking shots, standing in front of the net. It’s about being willing to pay the price to help your team win. It also means that when push comes to shove, it’s about stepping up and standing up for your teammates, or about changing the momentum of a game by dropping the gloves.

PENTICTON, BC. — The instigator rule, when it was adopted as we know it by NHL general managers for the start of the 1992-93 season, made non-fighting, cheap-shot artists rejoice with glee. It added a two-minute minor and game misconduct to a five-minute fighting penalty if game officials felt one player had deliberately started the fight. The game misconduct was changed to a 10-minute misconduct starting in the 1996-97 season. Also, after a certain amount of instigator penalties, the player would be suspended. Agitators, back-stabbers and cheap-shot artists, whose acts wouldn’t have lasted two games prior to that date, are still celebrating the day their league legislated an end to accountability.

By changing hockey in an attempt to try to appease some American viewers in non-traditional hockey markets, people who wouldn’t touch hockey with a 10-foot remote, the NHL thought it had planted seeds for a lucrative TV deal when it introduced the rule almost 20 years ago. No need to say that the TV deal didn’t happen and what the NHL got instead is a giant skirt that too many players have been hiding behind ever since.

While the Bettman era has proven to be inconsistent at best in its dealing with suspensions and punishments, it has become very clear with their most recent rulings that the players simply can’t rely on the league to protect them. In addition, the two referee system, which was meant to penalize infractions on the ice, has also failed miserably as not only do the players have to deal with two different judgements, but at least half the referees are incompetent, whether it’s from not being ready for that level of play or simply not cut for it.

The NHL, in its wisdom, has also taken away the players’ only way to protect and police themselves by imposing the instigator rule on them. With the standings being as tight as they are in a league that gives up points for losing games, when a powerplay goal could be the difference between a win and a loss, players certainly are reluctant to put their team in a difficult position by taking an additional 2 minutes and having to sit for 17 minutes.

Purposely or not, anti-fighting extremists tend to think of goons when the topic of the instigator rule is brought up. They think of a George Parros going after a Sidney Crosby, for whatever reason, instead of thinking of a Parros being able to defend the Crosby’s of this world, just like Dave Semenko and Marty McSorley did for Wayne Gretzky. The fact is that it’s so much more than that. The infamous night that Zdeno Chara injured Max Pacioretty, there was a play in that game that went unnoticed (and rightfully so), when Johnny Boychuk almost took PK Subban’s knee out. Ryan White, on the ice at the time, went straight at Boychuk and fought him fair and square. White received a two, a five and a ten minute penalty for doing the right thing! Do people think that Jarome Iginla, Corey Perry, Eric Staal, Ryan Kesler, Jeff Carter, Bobby Ryan or Ryan Getzlaf wouldn’t do the same? And what impact would it have on the game if they were lost for 17 minutes of the game?

Further, while this might be the last thing anti-fighting critics what to hear, NHL stats show that starting a fight is a sure way to change momentum, confirming what coaches and players close to the sport have know for ages.

Short of promoting the complete abolishment of the instigator rule, the fact remains that important change to the rule need to be made so that accountability is back in the game. While reverting back to the referees’ judgement isn’t very appealing, it’s definitely an option. Others, on the other hand, want the instigator rule completely gone. Between the two, the latter would be more beneficial.

“Get rid of it,” said Keith Tkachuk, a veteran who liked the NHL a lot better when players could police themselves. “Accountability is everything and right now there is very little. They should just get rid of it and the game will get a lot cleaner.”

“You take the instigator rule away and there are a lot of guys in the league who won’t be acting the way they do,” said Edmonton center Shawn Horcoff, not a fighter by any stretch. “They feel protected by it. Everybody knows it. There are players who, at times, deserve to be challenged.”

“No one wants to see players hurt,” said John Tortorella. “There needs to be some sort of honor and honesty in our game and I think we’ve lost that with the rules changes.”

While he admits that other rules changes such as eliminating benign obstruction have contributed to the problem, the instigator rule is the root cause. Tortorella is certainly not alone in the hockey circles in that belief, even though the instigator rule that mandates a two-minute minor plus a 10-minute misconduct penalty for those who start a fight in defense of a teammate, is hardly a recent change.

“It’s not just that, but I think it’s a lousy rule,” Tortorella said. “I think the game has gotten this way because we have not allowed the players to police themselves. To me, that’s the bottom line.

“Players need to police themselves on the ice, not the rules, not supplementary discipline and all that,” he said. “That’s where I think we’ve lost honesty. Call me old school, if you want. It’s wrong. “The instigator creates a mindset for players who you wouldn’t even see them if the instigator was not there.”

Dave Schultz to add: “The instigator has taken away one of the most important elements of hockey: honor. Nowadays, instead of guys settling their differences by having a fight, guys run around cheap-shotting guys, carrying their sticks high and playing with absolutely no respect. There is no retribution now other than suspensions or fines, which is ridiculous. That doesn’t solve any problems.”

Perhaps the best quote comes from former Blues tough guy and current team radio analyst Kelly Chase: “When I played, I didn’t have to call (NHL commissioner) Gary Bettman to find out what the punishment was for running a guy from behind in Detroit,” Chase said. “The punishment was Bob Probert and Joe Kocur.”

Nobody wants more violence, but many hockey fans and players want honour, respect and accountability in their game. Ever since the instigator rule, there hasn’t been much of either.

I’ll leave you with this beauty Youtube video from Brian Burke “The rats are taking over the game.”
Click to expand...
 
#816
Jeff K said:
I think what put a bee in Briere's bonnet was that after they were both down on the ice, the other guy shoved Danny's face down onto the ice while getting up. I think that's why Danny had the abrasion on his face the next day. I don't think he got it in the fight. I think his face scraped on the ice.

Yeah, Bryzgalov is a mess right now...
Click to expand...

That was in retaliation for getting the stick to the balls.

Wish I had DVRed the game. Something got Briere going for sure. Maybe he caught a stick to the face that went unnoticed prior to the 'cup check.'
 
#817
BTW, for me, I'd do away with mandatory helmets in hockey, away with the instigator rule, and get rid of the plastic shielding on those pads. Oh, and take goalies back to mid 70's equipment sizes and masks! Bring back the red line too! Take away the rpotective netting at the ends of the rinks, bring back the organs and do away with recorded music. Erase the ads on the boards and ice.
 
#819
jp58 said:
+1

That has to be the single worst rule in any sport.
Click to expand...

Yeah... just drives me nuts. The new playoff OT rules (the one that doomed the Steelers) is a step in the right direction, but it's still flatly inadequate.

But yeah, the NHL instigator rule is right up there. I think Brendan Shanahan's doing as good a job as anyone could with the circumstances that he's presented with, but I bet his workload would drop by 90% if that one rule went away.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back