Official Barefaced Bass Cab Club

[Britbonic]

That tight Chuck Rainey tone is not something easy to dial out of a Streamliner, whose tone is more "fat and gooey" to my ears. If you're set on staying with a Streamliner, you might check out an Empress Para EQ pedal. It includes an adjustable Q factor to help tighten up the tone is selectable, sweepable frequencies. It also has a boost button for some overdrive.

ParaEq

None of these tonal issues are related to the Super Midget or BB2. Both of those cabs reproduce what you put into them. Your challenge is further up the signal chain - not at the end.

So tough to use an incredibly well produced album like Aja as a base line for tone. Most likely Chuck recorded that direct and they added a little compression in the mix. So much of that tone is the fact that he is so tightly locked in with the kick. I think you'd be surprised what sound like as an isolated bass track.

In any case, if you have an amp that requires a Para EQ to get the sound you want then IMO you've got the wrong amp. Reminds me of when I had a Markbass LM2 and tried multiple cabs before realizing the lower mid bump couldn't be dialed out no matter what. FWIW, I've been using an GK MBF800 for the last year and it sounds amazing on every gig with a range of cabs including a BF One 1o.

 

[monsterthompson]

I had looked at cab sims for this purpose a few weeks ago and hadn't come across the DSM - I'll check it out.

Does HF crossover or a tweeter help, hurt or not make a difference when it comes to a cab's suitability as a guitar cab with a sim? That is, would the BB2 or the SM's HF or tweeter make it better than the SC or Two 10 for this purpose?

Almost forgot to note the cab selection will have an impact on the low end extension. The SM is going to have the tightest bass response, then the SC will get deeper, and the BB2 will have the most extended and biggest low end response. Again, something a cab sim or EQ can help dial in or out, but only up to the maximum the cab itself can handle.

 

[sratas]

I don't know why, but I noticed using my bb2 that switching off the high freq driver does produce not only a predictable loss of highs but even tighter lows. Adding back the horn widens the tone quite a bit. I can't explain to myself why I distinctly have the impression of different lows and subs, but I noticed this curious phenomenon more than one time.
Anyone experienced this? Maybe some tricky psichoacoustics play a role in this apparent behaviour.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Almost forgot to note the cab selection will have an impact on the low end extension. The SM is going to have the tightest bass response, then the SC will get deeper, and the BB2 will have the most extended and biggest low end response. Again, something a cab sim or EQ can help dial in or out, but only up to the maximum the cab itself can handle.

And having owned both cabs, I'll also note the SM can be made to sound virtually identical to a BB2 with the right "front end" gear in the chain. I'm currently using a Noble tube preamp/DI. And when I leave the low rolloff switch off and slightly boost the bass, I get the same creamy ultra extended lows of the BB2. The BB2, on the other hand, cannot reproduce the "tight" lows in the same way done by the SM. So if tight is your goal, go with a SM.

That said, the preamp will have a dramatic effect on how tight you can get the bass to sound. And Streamliner is not the way to go if tight is your thing.

 

[monsterthompson]

And having owned both cabs, I'll also note the SM can be made to sound virtually identical to a BB2 with the right "front end" gear in the chain. I'm currently using a Noble tube preamp/DI. And when I leave the low rolloff switch off and slightly boost the bass, I get the same creamy ultra extended lows of the BB2. The BB2, on the other hand, cannot reproduce the "tight" lows in the same way done by the SM. So if tight is your goal, go with a SM.

That said, the preamp will have a dramatic effect on how tight you can get the bass to sound. And Streamliner is not the way to go if tight is your thing.

Agreed that the tight SM lows cannot be duplicated by the BB2. Also, no doubt that the SM can dial in similar lows to the BB2 with the right gear and EQ, but with the caveat that it will probably run out of gas producing those lows at higher volumes faster than the BB2 will.

 

[John D Harris]

Without a ton of experience describing bass amp and cab sounds, it is possible that I'm not thinking of the same thing as others when using certain terminology. For instance, I may be worrying too much about what is considered defined/undefined in the lows.

I bought the Streamliner because I like the sound of a tube amp. I'm downsizing from an SVT-CL and 810 and am, like many people, very happy with that sound (and just not the size and weight). So I do mostly want a big, fat, open sound with big lows (where the Streamliner excels). I guess I just wanted to make sure that I could tighten the sound a tad, if needed, and that any of the cabs I'm considering didn't constitute an objectively bad pairing.

I'm not sure if I'm giving a good or correctly used example, but I think the most tight/defined sound I'd need would be like Chuck Rainey from Steely Dan records. I'm not sure how tight/mushy, defined/undefined that sound is considered, but as long as I can get that level of definition, I'll be fine. If you need an example, here you go:


I would also like to be able to get a good overdrive sound, from a little hairy and gritty to fairly overdriven (though I don't need really high gain distortion). I'm happy to get that from the Streamliner or a pedal.

I also assumed that the Two 10 would be considered a bad pairing with the Streamliner (a bit too much of a good thing) and that the SC or BB2 would pair better because, in most people's opinions, the Streamliner needs a little tightening. Maybe it doesn't need tightening for the sounds I've described, maybe it does. Thoughts?

I'd suggest you check out a Quilter BB800.
If you hadn't mentioned using the rig for guitar, I would have suggested checking both the SM & the Two10 or a Two10 + One10 stack.
Audiokinesis makes some very versatile cabs as well.

 

[Dr. Circles]

I think I may be approaching this from the wrong angle. How about this instead...

There are 3 sounds I am interested in getting out of a cab, in order of priority:

1. A fat, warm, open old school tube sound with some thump (SVT head and fridge sound)
2. A tight, clean sound (like Chuck Rainey)
3. Guitar cab sound (doesn't have to be as bright as a really bright cab or combo, but not so dark/muddy that it lacks articulation)

I knew that one amp would not do 1, 2 and 3. I think I'm now realizing that I may need more than one amp to do 1 and 2, as well. The Streamliner is for sound 1 and I may get another amp (and/or other things to put in the signal chain) for sound 2.

Is there a cab that is well or ill suited for getting these sounds with the right amp/pedals in front of it? Or am I going to be making sacrifices on one or two of the sounds regardless of cab choice?

Is the SC a nice compromise between the tight lows of the SM and the high volume lows of the BB2?

 

[John D Harris]

I think I may be approaching this from the wrong angle. How about this instead...

There are 3 sounds I am interested in getting out of a cab, in order of priority:

1. A fat, warm, open old school tube sound with some thump (SVT head and fridge sound)
2. A tight, clean sound (like Chuck Rainey)
3. Guitar cab sound (doesn't have to be as bright as a really bright cab or combo, but not so dark/muddy that it lacks articulation)

I knew that one amp would not do 1, 2 and 3. I think I'm now realizing that I may need more than one amp to do 1 and 2, as well. The Streamliner is for sound 1 and I may get another amp (and/or other things to put in the signal chain) for sound 2.

Is there a cab that is well or ill suited for getting these sounds with the right amp/pedals in front of it? Or am I going to be making sacrifices on one or two of the sounds regardless of cab choice?

I think the Quilter ~might~ do all three.
I don't own one yet, but it's currently at the top of my GAS list.
The EQ is deceptively simple.

 

[monsterthompson]

I think I may be approaching this from the wrong angle. How about this instead...

There are 3 sounds I am interested in getting out of a cab, in order of priority:

1. A fat, warm, open old school tube sound with some thump (SVT head and fridge sound)
2. A tight, clean sound (like Chuck Rainey)
3. Guitar cab sound (doesn't have to be as bright as a really bright cab or combo, but not so dark/muddy that it lacks articulation)

I knew that one amp would not do 1, 2 and 3. I think I'm now realizing that I may need more than one amp to do 1 and 2, as well. The Streamliner is for sound 1 and I may get another amp (and/or other things to put in the signal chain) for sound 2.

Is there a cab that is well or ill suited for getting these sounds with the right amp/pedals in front of it? Or am I going to be making sacrifices on one or two of the sounds regardless of cab choice?

Is the SC a nice compromise between the tight lows of the SM and the high volume lows of the BB2?

I'd say the SC with a DSM cab sim is going to be a fair compromise. I don't think you'll be missing any meaningful high end content. The DSM (or whatever you decide on) will let you shape the cab performance. Each of these is going to be like a passive PA monitor (withe the SC lacking the added high end extension the other two can provide). The SC by itself isn't going to give you the SVT/Fridge sound unless you have the right head and EQ going in (it produces what you send it). I've played a guitar through my BB2 and had no issues with it, with the crossover dialed down, which should yield similar results to the SC. If maximum tightness is a priority, the SM is the way to go, assuming you can give it enough watts to get loud enough for your needs. Not that the SC nor BB2 is sloppy, but the SM really does have a touch of magic in that department which I didn't find in the the bigger boxes.

 

[BigEarl]

Chuck Rainey is a god, but realize that most studio player tone is generally arrived at via direct-to-console recording thought EXTREEEEMLY expensive pre's, outboard compression, etc. Very hard to get exact tone on stage, but you can get pretty close to "feel".

 

[BigEarl]

Ok, I'm lazy, I'll admit it. And I don't want to spend the time going through thousands of entries on this thread, but, I would love to solicit a new round of personal opinions on the old BBII vs SC comparison. I am most interested in the differences regarding earth-shaking lows. I need a cab that will kick my butt when playing loud and stand in front.

General consensus for a year ago is the BBII wins that battle, still the same?

 

[Dr. Circles]

Most likely Chuck recorded that direct and they added a little compression in the mix.

Chuck Rainey is a god, but realize that most studio player tone is generally arrived at via direct-to-console recording thought EXTREEEEMLY expensive pre's, outboard compression, etc. Very hard to get exact tone on stage, but you can get pretty close to "feel".

I think both of you are probably correct, in which case that's an unrealistic stage demand. Feel will be just fine here. Think the SC with a good compressor pedal will get me close enough to the feel, or is a SM required?

 

[alexclaber]

The BB2, on the other hand, cannot reproduce the "tight" lows in the same way done by the SM. So if tight is your goal, go with a SM.

I do find it strange when people say this but I think it's similar to how people hear cabs with more compression and often less quick mids as being more punchy. The BB2 has better transient response in the lows than the SM - it is quantifiably 'tighter'. If the upper bass from your instrument is tighter and the lower bass more woolly then you could perceive the BB2's more accurate and precise rendition as being less tight.

Pretty weird that, isn't it?

 

[monsterthompson]

I do find it strange when people say this but I think it's similar to how people hear cabs with more compression and often less quick mids as being more punchy. The BB2 has better transient response in the lows than the SM - it is quantifiably 'tighter'. If the upper bass from your instrument is tighter and the lower bass more woolly then you could perceive the BB2's more accurate and precise rendition as being less tight.

Pretty weird that, isn't it?

Wondered when the man himself would jump in

I think it's interesting that there are so many variables involved, and the brain often interprets events in ways that aren't exactly representative of what actually occurred. Also, many of us who don't do R&D and/or have budget to burn through gear, rarely get to hear exactly what a head will produce. We only ever hear it through the filter of the cabinets we have used, and we have to make assumptions about what we are hearing differently.

 

[Tim1]

I think I may be approaching this from the wrong angle. How about this instead...

There are 3 sounds I am interested in getting out of a cab, in order of priority:

1. A fat, warm, open old school tube sound with some thump (SVT head and fridge sound)
2. A tight, clean sound (like Chuck Rainey)
3. Guitar cab sound (doesn't have to be as bright as a really bright cab or combo, but not so dark/muddy that it lacks articulation)

I knew that one amp would not do 1, 2 and 3. I think I'm now realizing that I may need more than one amp to do 1 and 2, as well. The Streamliner is for sound 1 and I may get another amp (and/or other things to put in the signal chain) for sound 2.

Is there a cab that is well or ill suited for getting these sounds with the right amp/pedals in front of it? Or am I going to be making sacrifices on one or two of the sounds regardless of cab choice?

Is the SC a nice compromise between the tight lows of the SM and the high volume lows of the BB2?

If you want to be really versatile the Mesa 800+ certainly should be considered. Provides a huge range of tonal options with my One 10s and Four 10. The variable high pass filter is a huge part of this with the BF10s IMO.

 

[Stu_Bass]

Ok, I'm lazy, I'll admit it. And I don't want to spend the time going through thousands of entries on this thread, but, I would love to solicit a new round of personal opinions on the old BBII vs SC comparison. I am most interested in the differences regarding earth-shaking lows. I need a cab that will kick my butt when playing loud and stand in front.

General consensus for a year ago is the BBII wins that battle, still the same?

I have only played the BBII but have to say that two of them put out a LOT bottom with 700 - 1k watts and get downright nasty (in a good way) with 2k+.

 

[Stu_Bass]

I think the Quilter ~might~ do all three.
I don't own one yet, but it's currently at the top of my GAS list.
The EQ is deceptively simple.

I own a ton of amps and have to say the Quilter is just "easy". I love how it sounds without any messing and stressing. I would suggest auditioning it in a "real world" situation as playing an amp in a music store cannot provide a realist experience. Find a nearby store or an online retailer with a good return policy and check out a few options. Having to pay return shipping on a few small lightweight packages would far outweigh never knowing which is best for you or being stuck with something that you find lacking. I would encourage including the Quilter to anyone considering a class D amp

 

[mmbongo]

If you want to be really versatile the Mesa 800+ certainly should be considered. Provides a huge range of tonal options with my One 10s and Four 10. The variable high pass filter is a huge part of this with the BF10s IMO.

I would definitely give a huge nod to the Mesa over the Quilter, especially if you need a line out for FOH or recording. The line out on the Quilter is shockingly controlled by the master volume, not sure who made that decision or why.

 

[John D Harris]

I would definitely give a huge nod to the Mesa over the Quilter, especially if you need a line out for FOH or recording. The line out on the Quilter is shockingly controlled by the master volume, not sure who made that decision or why.

Yes, for me this is the only negative on the Quilter.
I've never been in a band where the guitarists didn't crank up more & more as you go through the night.
Either your sound person compensates or you have a separate DI.
I know Quilter has received a lot of feedback regarding this so I'm hoping they'll update the amp.

 

[friskinator]

I've been considering upgrading my amp from a GK MB200 to an MB500 or MB Fusion 500 in hopes of picking up another One10 someday. Would I be in danger of pushing too much power into the single One10 with one of those amps?