Official Tobias Club

[scubaduba]

For sure. By pre-gib I mean anything made by Mike and his original crew which is #2044 and earlier which includes Burbank era basses. If you ask Mike he'll tell you he considers Burbank era some of his best. He had state-of-the art spray booth and upgraded facilities. The basses post 2044 just feel different. Different hardware, the necks feel different, balance is different, different preamps and pickups... There's magic in the basses Mike had his hands on.

 

[iplay5strings]

For sure. By pre-gib I mean anything made by Mike and his original crew which is #2044 and earlier which includes Burbank era basses. If you ask Mike he'll tell you he considers Burbank era some of his best. He had state-of-the art spray booth and upgraded facilities. The basses post 2044 just feel different. Different hardware, the necks feel different, balance is different, different preamps and pickups... There's magic in the basses Mike had his hands on.

The unfortunate thing is that Mike will only service pre-Burbank era basses last time I talked to him. Gibson screwed him so bad that he wants nothing to do with any instruments made while Gibson was in the picture, which includes the Burbank days. Rumor has it that he still has drawers full of original Tobias pickups reserved only to service truly pre-Gib basses. You're right about (even the early) Gibson Tobias' just being different. For me, putting a 19mm bridge and a Burbank Tobias preamp fixed it (or at least close enough).

 

[bucephylus]

Hmmm

These discussions about Gibson and Mike and the Nashvile vs Burbank vs Hollywood basses can get emotional.

I keep hoping that the corporate brain surgeons at Gibson will have a moment of clarity and sell Mike's name back to him for $1. I know, I'm not holding my breath. But, given the current misuse of the brand and utter lack of intent to do otherwise, they could at least get some good PR out of it as well as mending fences. Just my $0.019.

As far as differences in the basses, my experiences really haven't matched a lot of what I've read. First of all there is a pretty amazing variation in the character of instruments made at any one of the locations. So, to me, talking about blanket characterization of one vs the other is difficult. I have played Nashville produced instruments that smoke (I still own one) and Burbank instruments that were clunkers (very surprising and probably uncommon). I do agree that Mike has a knack for getting the wood into the sound of the bass.

I also think one has to be careful to differentiate the business shaft that Mike apparently received from Gibson Corporate from the performance of the Nashville shop. Those involved different people. Just because the corporate pukes treated Mike badly doesn't mean the shop guys were evil. My experiences with those guys was quite the opposite. They were extremely knowledgeable, committed, and helpful when I interacted with them. I agree the Hollywood instruments had more attention to detail. I do not agree that the preamps were better.

IME YMMV, of course.

 

[iplay5strings]

Hmmm

These discussions about Gibson and Mike and the Nashvile vs Burbank vs Hollywood basses can get emotional.

I keep hoping that the corporate brain surgeons at Gibson will have a moment of clarity and sell Mike's name back to him for $1. I know, I'm not holding my breath. But, given the current misuse of the brand and utter lack of intent to do otherwise, they could at least get some good PR out of it as well as mending fences. Just my $0.019.

As far as differences in the basses, my experiences really haven't matched a lot of what I've read. First of all there is a pretty amazing variation in the character of instruments made at any one of the locations. So, to me, talking about blanket characterization of one vs the other is difficult. I have played Nashville produced instruments that smoke (I still own one) and Burbank instruments that were clunkers (very surprising and probably uncommon). I do agree that Mike has a knack for getting the wood into the sound of the bass.

I also think one has to be careful to differentiate the business shaft that Mike apparently received from Gibson Corporate from the performance of the Nashville shop. Those involved different people. Just because the corporate pukes treated Mike badly doesn't mean the shop guys were evil. My experiences with those guys was quite the opposite. They were extremely knowledgeable, committed, and helpful when I interacted with them. I agree the Hollywood instruments had more attention to detail. I do not agree that the preamps were better.

IME YMMV, of course.

I would never insinuate that the shop guys were bad people, they obviously don't make the business decisions. The early (think 90's) Gibson era Tobias' (well most of them) were still great instruments. My Tobias happens to be one of them. It wasn't without it's tweaks though (which isn't uncommon for a production instrument). After I properly relocated the bridge for 34" scale and used a 19mm spacing bridge, the thing really screamed. I ran into a bit of a rough patch when the cluster of a (Gibson designed) custom preamp in it died and I almost got rid of it because the NTMB HR5.4 I got for it sounded awful (which surprised me cause the same pre sounds great in my Carvin). I then managed to track down enough wiring diagrams and part numbers to piece my own Burbank Tobias TCT preamp together and now it absolutely slays. Glad I didn't give up and give it away!

 

[bucephylus]

I would never insinuate that the shop guys were bad people, they obviously don't make the business decisions. The early (think 90's) Gibson era Tobias' (well most of them) were still great instruments. My Tobias happens to be one of them. It wasn't without it's tweaks though (which isn't uncommon for a production instrument). After I properly relocated the bridge for 34" scale and used a 19mm spacing bridge, the thing really screamed. I ran into a bit of a rough patch when the cluster of a (Gibson designed) custom preamp in it died and I almost got rid of it because the NTMB HR5.4 I got for it sounded awful (which surprised me cause the same pre sounds great in my Carvin). I then managed to track down enough wiring diagrams and part numbers to piece my own Burbank Tobias TCT preamp together and now it absolutely slays. Glad I didn't give up and give it away!

No, I was not intending any finger pointing; more kind of rambling regarding the pre-Gibson vs Gibson discussion in general.

It does seem that the preamps in these instruments can be problematic; and kind of inconsistently so. I find it interesting that the original TCT circuit was best for you. I worked with a Signature 5 in Lacewood from the Burbank shop for several years. It was absurdly attractive; but, the sound just wasn't there. Spent quite some time talking to Mike about the bass. He admitted that while lacewood is attractive, it has all the resonance of styrofoam. I ended up working with the Nashville shop to swap out for one of their preamps; which improved the sound a lot. I ended up selling the bass anyhow.

My current Signature 5 Hollywood bass has a somewhat anemic preamp, a TCT, but great tone. So, I just have to crank up the amp input. I know tombowlus has swapped out for the Pope preamp in some cases. Perhaps, part of the deal with the Bartolini preamp is how it is wired, and I still haven't gotten it right; but, the thing just frustrates me.

 

[tombowlus]

I know tombowlus has swapped out for the Pope preamp in some cases. Perhaps, part of the deal with the Bartolini preamp is how it is wired, and I still haven't gotten it right; but, the thing just frustrates me.

Yup. The preamp in my Basic 4 was malfunctioning, and instead of replacing it with the proper Bart pre, I tried the Mike Pope preamp (with dual midrange bands), and at least for this particular bass, in the condition it was in, the Pope preamp was a great mod.

 

[iplay5strings]

No, I was not intending any finger pointing; more kind of rambling regarding the pre-Gibson vs Gibson discussion in general.

It does seem that the preamps in these instruments can be problematic; and kind of inconsistently so. I find it interesting that the original TCT circuit was best for you. I worked with a Signature 5 in Lacewood from the Burbank shop for several years. It was absurdly attractive; but, the sound just wasn't there. Spent quite some time talking to Mike about the bass. He admitted that while lacewood is attractive, it has all the resonance of styrofoam. I ended up working with the Nashville shop to swap out for one of their preamps; which improved the sound a lot. I ended up selling the bass anyhow.

My current Signature 5 Hollywood bass has a somewhat anemic preamp, a TCT, but great tone. So, I just have to crank up the amp input. I know tombowlus has swapped out for the Pope preamp in some cases. Perhaps, part of the deal with the Bartolini preamp is how it is wired, and I still haven't gotten it right; but, the thing just frustrates me.

The original Nashville pre (to me) seemed like it was an NTMB and a TCT spliced together with the ability to switch btwn the 2. With the volume knob pushed in you had an NTMB type voicing, just mid city (too much for me, got pretty honky). Then, if you pulled the volume knob out you got a TCT type voicing with the ability to control the mid scoop level via a mini trim pot inside the preamp cavity. I always just left my preamp in this mode with mid scoop set to minimum. It really added the right amount of warmth and clarity for what I wanted. When that preamp died, neither Gibson or Bartolini was helpful in finding me a direct replacement. Gibson just didn't care and Bartolini just wanted to sell me the new NTMB stuff. At that point Bartolini still offered a pre-wired "Burbank Tobias" preamp, but the person I talked to convinced me to spring for the HR5.4 NTMB because "the Burbank pre was a 6 week wait period due to it being a special order, hand wired unit. Plus, the HR5.4 NTMB was ready to ship today, was almost identical to the new MTD preamps and will sound as good if not better then the Burbank pre". Well he was dead wrong. The HR5.4 sounded like the stock Nashville pre without the slap tone engaged, but worse. No bass...no treble...just everything from 200Hz-1Khz. After that I just stopped playing it and almost got rid of it during a Guitar Center "trade in, trade up" deal. However, before letting it go I did some reading and realized how vastly different the TCT voicing was from the NTMB and remembered how good the bass used to sound before replacing the preamp. That was my "ah ha" moment. I then immediately called Bartolini to order that Burbank pre, but unfortunately they had discontinued it. Very disappointing news and all the Bartolini guy had to say was "if you feel like digging, the information is still out there somewhere". I then set out to track down the wiring diagrams that I knew had to be somewhere on the web since they used to be on Bartolini's website. Sure enough (via combining 3 separate diagrams) I found all the part numbers and instructions needed to wire my own Burbank TCT pre. I decided to go with an XTCT module which moves the mid cut frequency up to 500Hz (original TCT was 300Hz and then NTCT was 400Hz) because it's an updated design (should last longer/work better) and it cuts the mids at a point that helps warm/clear up the tone while leaving the "meat & potatoes" low mid frequencies intact. Now my bass has more of that classic Tobias sound than it ever has.

 

[bucephylus]

The original Nashville pre (to me) seemed like it was an NTMB and a TCT spliced together with the ability to switch btwn the 2. With the volume knob pushed in you had an NTMB type voicing, just mid city (too much for me, got pretty honky). Then, if you pulled the volume knob out you got a TCT type voicing with the ability to control the mid scoop level via a mini trim pot inside the preamp cavity. I always just left my preamp in this mode with mid scoop set to minimum. It really added the right amount of warmth and clarity for what I wanted. When that preamp died, neither Gibson or Bartolini was helpful in finding me a direct replacement. Gibson just didn't care and Bartolini just wanted to sell me the new NTMB stuff. At that point Bartolini still offered a pre-wired "Burbank Tobias" preamp, but the person I talked to convinced me to spring for the HR5.4 NTMB because "the Burbank pre was a 6 week wait period due to it being a special order, hand wired unit. Plus, the HR5.4 NTMB was ready to ship today, was almost identical to the new MTD preamps and will sound as good if not better then the Burbank pre". Well he was dead wrong. The HR5.4 sounded like the stock Nashville pre without the slap tone engaged, but worse. No bass...no treble...just everything from 200Hz-1Khz. After that I just stopped playing it and almost got rid of it during a Guitar Center "trade in, trade up" deal. However, before letting it go I did some reading and realized how vastly different the TCT voicing was from the NTMB and remembered how good the bass used to sound before replacing the preamp. That was my "ah ha" moment. I then immediately called Bartolini to order that Burbank pre, but unfortunately they had discontinued it. Very disappointing news and all the Bartolini guy had to say was "if you feel like digging, the information is still out there somewhere". I then set out to track down the wiring diagrams that I knew had to be somewhere on the web since they used to be on Bartolini's website. Sure enough (via combining 3 separate diagrams) I found all the part numbers and instructions needed to wire my own Burbank TCT pre. I decided to go with an XTCT module which moves the mid cut frequency up to 500Hz (original TCT was 300Hz and then NTCT was 400Hz) because it's an updated design (should last longer/work better) and it cuts the mids at a point that helps warm/clear up the tone while leaving the "meat & potatoes" low mid frequencies intact. Now my bass has more of that classic Tobias sound than it ever has.

You get an A+ for patience, persistence, and perseverance. That's pretty ridiculous, but good show. Bartolini are for sure not the people I like dealing with.

 

[scubaduba]

You could just buy a TCT with 300hz mid cut. Can still find them here and there. Link Removed

 

[iplay5strings]

You get an A+ for patience, persistence, and perseverance. That's pretty ridiculous, but good show. Bartolini are for sure not the people I like dealing with.

They aren't mine either. They don't even attempt to be helpful anymore. They used to at least answer questions and then take your order directly. Now their answer for 99% of your questions is "you'll need to contact/go through a dealer", it's absurd. I thought about putting a few kits together to help other Tobias guys out that may not be as persistent as me, but I just don't know that there's enough of these instruments around that are still being played to warrant the investment.

 

[bucephylus]

They aren't mine either. They don't even attempt to be helpful anymore. They used to at least answer questions and then take your order directly. Now their answer for 99% of your questions is "you'll need to contact/go through a dealer", it's absurd. I thought about putting a few kits together to help other Tobias guys out that may not be as persistent as me, but I just don't know that there's enough of these instruments around that are still being played to warrant the investment.

Probably right. I think tombowlus may have the right answer - just get rid of the Bartolini.

The thing I don't get is that Mike is still using a later generation Bartolini circuit. I'm sure it would fit right into the Tobias cavity. No reason for Bartolini to be so obtuse, except to just be mean spirited to their customers.

It's highly unlikely I will ever purchase another instrument with Bartolini guts. FWIW

 

[scubaduba]

My experience has been sort of the opposite. I asked Bartolini several questions via email and received answers to all of my questions. I was looking for information about the ultra rare wtmb Mike was testing to replace the TCT towards the end. I first spoke with Mike but he couldn't remember all of the details and suggested I call Bartolini. So I did. They researched and couldn't dig up info on the elusive wtmb and called me back to tell me so. I was bumbed. I had also emailed Bartolini the same questions. Low and behold a couple of days later Clyde emailed me saying he did more digging but couldn't locate more info. The wtmb was not really something in the official catalog. It was a special preamp and they didn't keep files after Mike abandoned the need for them. I replied with gratitude but expressed my dismay for not getting more info. Two days later Clyde emailed and asked me for a pic of my control cavity with the wtmb in it so I sent a pic. And then he replied thanking me and gave me a whole bunch more info. The pic triggered his memory and he took the time to send me all he could remember about a preamp that was even more rare than the TCT. I asked if he had any more wtmb or original TCT preamps around and he didn't but told me to contact proaudioland.com because he thought they had a small stash of them. Considering all of this stuff is like ancient history I really appreciated the time the folks at Bartolini took to discuss details with me on something that wasn't going to net them any financial gain.

 

[iplay5strings]

My experience has been sort of the opposite. I asked Bartolini several questions via email and received answers to all of my questions. I was looking for information about the ultra rare wtmb Mike was testing to replace the TCT towards the end. I first spoke with Mike but he couldn't remember all of the details and suggested I call Bartolini. So I did. They researched and couldn't dig up info on the elusive wtmb and called me back to tell me so. I was bumbed. I had also emailed Bartolini the same questions. Low and behold a couple of days later Clyde emailed me saying he did more digging but couldn't locate more info. The wtmb was not really something in the official catalog. It was a special preamp and they didn't keep files after Mike abandoned the need for them. I replied with gratitude but expressed my dismay for not getting more info. Two days later Clyde emailed and asked me for a pic of my control cavity with the wtmb in it so I sent a pic. And then he replied thanking me and gave me a whole bunch more info. The pic triggered his memory and he took the time to send me all he could remember about a preamp that was even more rare than the TCT. I asked if he had any more wtmb or original TCT preamps around and he didn't but told me to contact proaudioland.com because he thought they had a small stash of them. Considering all of this stuff is like ancient history I really appreciated the time the folks at Bartolini took to discuss details with me on something that wasn't going to net them any financial gain.

You're lucky. I've never dealt with Clyde, only T.J. He's not a bad person, he just doesn't care about the old stuff like us Tobias guys would/do. When asked if Bartolini could wire me up a Burbank if I did the ground work he replied "we're not even keeping up with our current orders, so a 1 off deal isn't really worth our time". It seems as though Bartolini has shifted their focus to mass ordered, pre-wired deals (like the Ibanez/Lakland stuff) and away from custom/boutique stuff (unless you're Mike Tobias).

 

[iplay5strings]

Probably right. I think tombowlus may have the right answer - just get rid of the Bartolini.

The thing I don't get is that Mike is still using a later generation Bartolini circuit. I'm sure it would fit right into the Tobias cavity. No reason for Bartolini to be so obtuse, except to just be mean spirited to their customers.

It's highly unlikely I will ever purchase another instrument with Bartolini guts. FWIW

I almost went the Audere route before tracking down all the Tobias stuff. I just really wanted to keep this bass "stock" as a nice collector's piece. Plus, the Tobias sound that made me want to own one was coming from the TCT's they had in them. If it was good enough for Mike it's good enough for me.

 

[bucephylus]

I almost went the Audere route before tracking down all the Tobias stuff. I just really wanted to keep this bass "stock" as a nice collector's piece. Plus, the Tobias sound that made me want to own one was coming from the TCT's they had in them. If it was good enough for Mike it's good enough for me.

Agreed. I'm not touching my Hollywood bass. The TCT circuit has marvelous tone. Kind of somewhere between Warwick wood and Jazz Bass. I just wish it had a bit more output.

I'm not sure what is in my Nashville Classic 6. It is a much more traditional VERY even sounding instrument. It just needs a decent finish at some point. (Thinking Pat Wilkins)

 

[iplay5strings]

Agreed. I'm not touching my Hollywood bass. The TCT circuit has marvelous tone. Kind of somewhere between Warwick wood and Jazz Bass. I just wish it had a bit more output.

I'm not sure what is in my Nashville Classic 6. It is a much more traditional VERY even sounding instrument. It just needs a decent finish at some point. (Thinking Pat Wilkins)

That's odd that your output is so low. The TCT circuit is boost-cut-boost, meaning with the knobs @ center detent you've got this:

bass/\ /\treble
..........\/
.........mid
I found after the XTCT install (which can only be wired as 9v) that it was louder than my 18v HR5.4 in my carvin with both set "flat". Something must either be wrong with the TCT module or the wiring.

 

[bucephylus]

That's odd that your output is so low. The TCT circuit is boost-cut-boost, meaning with the knobs @ center detent you've got this:

bass/\ /\treble
..........\/
.........mid
I found after the XTCT install (which can only be wired as 9v) that it was louder than my 18v HR5.4 in my carvin with both set "flat". Something must either be wrong with the TCT module or the wiring.

Could be that this bass was wired specifically for studio use at the shop when it was built. It sounds like it. I don't have the necessary diagrams to sort out what is going on in there.

 

[iplay5strings]

Could be that this bass was wired specifically for studio use at the shop when it was built. It sounds like it. I don't have the necessary diagrams to sort out what is going on in there.

I also noticed that the volume btwn active and passive on the HR5.4 preamp in my Carvin is pretty equal when "flat". On the Tobias there's a significant volume difference btwn Active (louder) and passive (quiet), when "flat" so there's definitely significant boosting going on with the preamp engaged. I bet the module in ur bass is just bad.

 

[bucephylus]

I also noticed that the volume btwn active and passive on the HR5.4 preamp in my Carvin is pretty equal when "flat". On the Tobias there's a significant volume difference btwn Active (louder) and passive (quiet), when "flat" so there's definitely significant boosting going on with the preamp engaged. I bet the module in ur bass is just bad.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not doing a good job articulating my concerns. My bass does everything you are describing. So, no issues there. The main basses I am gigging at the moment have Delano pickups driving Sadowsky preamps. The gain structure is just in a whole other universe. Still, the Tobias has a marvelous woody articulate tone that makes the bass quite useful in certain settings.

 

[iplay5strings]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not doing a good job articulating my concerns. My bass does everything you are describing. So, no issues there. The main basses I am gigging at the moment have Delano pickups driving Sadowsky preamps. The gain structure is just in a whole other universe. Still, the Tobias has a marvelous woody articulate tone that makes the bass quite useful in certain settings.

I guess I just kept reading it as the output of your Tobias was very quiet. I was just making it clear that the output of the XTCT preamp in my Tobias is not quiet by any means.