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Only $2,000 to improve your amp's performance
- Thread starter Bluesy Soul
- Start date
Surely you can't be implying that the post count and view count denote some sort of interest in this product?
Personally, I just like watching the show. I'll leave the $2000 power cords to the golden ear believers.
Leave the personal attacks at home. Go back and re-read the thread. Nothing I mentioned surrounding some TB'ers replies towards Victor or Adam in this context are untrue. Some here equated them as being ignorant and easily fooled, some as having their ears blown out over so many years of touring as to be unable to actually hear a difference, some as being gear whores/mongers who would do anything for a free-bee or a buck, etc., as the reason they believe the product makes a difference. Go back and read.
Sevaral TB'ers (including me) who have tried the MusicCord believe they heard a difference. Some here who have tried it believe they could not. Fair enough. Get over it. The argument about the PowerCord itself has become all but pointless a long time ago. This thread has long since been more about how we interact with one another when there is sharp disagreement, about scientific method vs. opinion vs. experience, about sharing ideas openly and hopefully in the process, learning something. Many have been great at maintaining a positive atmosphere, but I am stunned at the vitriol and anger with which so many are compelled to interact on this subject. What does it matter if I have decided to purchase a $150 power cord that will easily last for hundreds of club gigs and several world tours without failure? Is there a problem if IMO/IME, I have determined there is a small but tangible difference to my ears and touch when I use this power cord over a standard "out of the box" cable? Why is it that so many like yourself have felt compelled to personally attack ME (and others) to make your argument?
I am in agreement that issues with auditory memory, hearing fatigue, auditory memory span, power of suggestion, marketing, etc., can have huge impact of the validity of what we hear and/or what we think we hear. That is why I have time and time again sought out advice on how to run a "proper" test to see if any of what I am hearing can be captured and measured. My father was an exceptional electronics engineer who spearheaded and developed cutting-edge technologies for the Pentagon, CIA, NASA, etc., many of which are still being used and remain fully classified at the highest government level. One thing he taught me was to always consider the impossible, and to never let anything, including that which is known to be factual, close your mind to what could be possible. IMO, science and dreams of the impossible are not only compatible, they are woefully inadequate without one another.
This thread truly should be closed as it has become pointless.
I am amazed actually there no violations handed out (that we know of, of course) or the thread being closed due to conduct? 
I keep reading "heard a difference" but I don't read - "heard a difference that sounded better".
Come - do a double blind test. Or show some measurements. The manufacturer should, But they don't care.
Come - do a double blind test. Or show some measurements. The manufacturer should, But they don't care.
Yaaaaawwwwwnnnn!, Why not spend that kinda cash on a super vintage tube amp or something that actually appreciates and you can really dig playing with. The freaking cord sits in the back with all the dust bunnies and spilled beer.........
Bob Lee (QSC)
In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!
- Jul 3, 2001
- 12,668
- 2,036
- 67
- Disclosures
- Former Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
Some people believe in horoscopes. They don't discount them as impossible.
I don't believe I have to examine every single horoscope to believe their whole concept is, like tone-altering magic power cords, bunk--unless you can come up with some real and convincing evidence to demonstrate that I'm wrong.
I don't believe I have to examine every single horoscope to believe their whole concept is, like tone-altering magic power cords, bunk--unless you can come up with some real and convincing evidence to demonstrate that I'm wrong.
I don't think this thread should be closed until we reach a conclusion, in the form of a correctly administered, double-blind test.
Bob Lee (QSC)
In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!
- Jul 3, 2001
- 12,668
- 2,036
- 67
- Disclosures
- Former Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
Here's what I asked, and the number of views and replies are irrelevent to my question: Is there a compelling reason to consider that this power cord may somehow be different from all the others before that don't do anything that a regular power cord doesn't? It's not like this is the first "magic" power cord.
bob asks a fair question.
i've got one, too...why wouldn't someone WANT to be informed if a product is ineffectual? there is nothing i hate worse than getting ripped off, so why would i want to remain in the dark about a product that claims outrageous things and shows no proof of how it works? and why would any of you? do you just like giving people your hard earned money for nothing? how hard did you work for that $150? or $2000 or whatever it is? even if it's 50c, if it doesn't work, it's a ripoff. why wouldn't you want to be told?
and why don't you send me $100, and i'll send you a fancy looking ac cord and tell you it makes you sound better and i'll undercut the crap out of this guy. i have no scientific proof, but trust me...i'm a professional bass player just like victor wooten...except he has way better gigs than me, hence the discount.
i've got one, too...why wouldn't someone WANT to be informed if a product is ineffectual? there is nothing i hate worse than getting ripped off, so why would i want to remain in the dark about a product that claims outrageous things and shows no proof of how it works? and why would any of you? do you just like giving people your hard earned money for nothing? how hard did you work for that $150? or $2000 or whatever it is? even if it's 50c, if it doesn't work, it's a ripoff. why wouldn't you want to be told?
and why don't you send me $100, and i'll send you a fancy looking ac cord and tell you it makes you sound better and i'll undercut the crap out of this guy. i have no scientific proof, but trust me...i'm a professional bass player just like victor wooten...except he has way better gigs than me, hence the discount.
You haven't heard quality sound until you, the rest of the band and the PA are all plugged into a ungrounded lamp gauge extention cord. Sounded so good I would have sworn there was a gray haze in the building.
It's not a personal attack, it's my sincere opinion. I personally consider these distortions of yours to be deliberate, trolling, and insulting.
Fact is that you have no idea if they paid for their cables, under what conditions they "heard" a difference if at all (were you there?), if they're even credible listeners (seen their hearing tests?), and if they're somehow immune to the power of suggestion and other related issues. (Have you read Wooten's book? If so, you'd think he's more than a little gullible.)
So let's leave them out of it and simply answer this - why does the company and all others selling magic cables offer ZERO evidence of their claims, despite standing to gain million$ by simply proving them?
Then you can't possibly believe you, your friends, or Wooten & Nitti heard a difference that actually existed. You're contradicting yourself completely.
You have also time and time again dismissed and mischacterized what helpful and expert persons have graciously taken the time to write you, so please stop playing victim. That's insulting and trolling, and in that light the responses you've received have been far too patient and kind in my opinion.
What does anything you, the company, or its endorsers have offered have to do with science, keeping an open mind, or proving something possible?
I dreamt today that I had a 4-way with some of the ladies on the Swiss Olympic curling team, during which we discussed whether we preferred crushed or whole garlic, baked or fresh, on pizzas. I heard it, saw it, and felt it. Does that mean it's up to you to prove it didn't happen? Does it matter I was hungry and watching women's curling when I fell asleep? What if Maki had the same dream - does that make it any more credible or worthy of tolerance if I insist over and over it really happened while repeatedly dismissing and twisting what others reply? Maybe rather than imaginging the whole thing I actually saw the future, or an alternate dimension, which of course no current scientific instruments can measure so we must consider it's possible.
I'll take a WAL-MART brand power strip, and $1990 in High end Tube amp parts.
That will surely improve my tone.
That will surely improve my tone.
I'll take a WAL-MART brand power strip, and $1990 in High end Tube amp parts.
That will surely improve my tone.
Hmm smells like an MC3500?
It is actually you who appears to be distorting things. After doing a bit of searching, I found that each suggestion I had summarized a few days back regarding both Victor and Adam's qualifications for not being able to "hear a difference" came surprisingly, from YOU.
This is what I stated at 4:31pm on 24-March:
But on 09:17 PM on 27-January, you said:
Hmmm... let's see, shysters for free gear? Check. Dead ears due to smashing cymbals, touring and such? Check. Gear whores? Check. Oh, and your personal attack (oh sorry, your opinion) on Mr. Wooten's intelligence, or lack there of. I forgot about that. Bonus! The only thing I got wrong was stating that "others" had said this. It was just you. Hardly a distortion.
I have never dismissed anyone's helpful advice in this thread, but have been grateful and thankful for their advice, help, education, etc. and have been respectful towards those who have kindly offered it. I have asked questions. Suggested ideas. I have had some tongue-in-cheek fun (as have others) but I have NEVER dismissed or been insulting. Again, it is you who has mis-characterize me in this regard and confused your own opinion for fact. And neither am I playing victim. I am just stunned at how angry some folks are.
What does anything you, the company, or its endorsers have offered have to do with science, keeping an open mind, or proving something possible?
I cannot speak for the company or the endorsers directly, but so far, I only offered that I did hear something different with the PowerCord, have asked questions as to how that might be possible, have personally purchased one to see if I could determine what it was I was hearing, and have kept an open mind to be proven right or wrong in the process. From what I can tell, that is significantly more than you have done.
if they had a scientific reason for the cord sounding better than others, they would be all over themselves showing it off. they would set up demos all over the country for electrical engineers, and they would be hailed as heroes. why the hell should anyone believe them without that? and why would i accept victor wooten or adam nitti's word over electrical engineers whose job depends on knowing what's real and what's bs? vic and adam know playing bass. they are very intelligent when it comes to bass. they're not electrical engineers and are not intelligent when it comes to electrical engineering.
but there is none of that proof going on, no scientific explanations being offered, you're asking questions and not getting answers, and engineers have shot down anything esp has claimed in short order in a way that can be proved easily. you can believe what you want, but if you seriously think people are against this cord because they're not open minded enough to appreciate it, you're just plain wrong.
but there is none of that proof going on, no scientific explanations being offered, you're asking questions and not getting answers, and engineers have shot down anything esp has claimed in short order in a way that can be proved easily. you can believe what you want, but if you seriously think people are against this cord because they're not open minded enough to appreciate it, you're just plain wrong.
This, in spades, all over again and again. It's like groundhog day, not only in this thread, but so many areas where humans believe what's comfortable, rather than what's reasonable. A man hears what he want to hear, and disregards the rest. The cynic is not the adversary, but rather the court jester willing to say that the emperor is buck naked. The tension, IMO, comes because those who believe without proof are insulted their beliefs may be wrong, and those who do not believe are frustrated beyond comprehension at the way some cling to beliefs grounded (pun intended
) in.......nothing real, objective or demonstrable
.
I'm afraid you're still distorting and misrepresenting what SMASH said, and you're doing it by (apparently deliberately) upping the emotional temperature beyond what is actually there in his post.
For example:
SMASH says "Experts in what? getting free gear?", and you turn that into "shysters," thereby distorting the point of the comment, which was that expertise in one area (bass playing) does NOT make those guys experts in any other area, such as electrical engineering or the dubious "ability" to hear the effects of an AC power cord. Vic and Adam are expert bassists and have proved that; they have not proved themselves to have any special expertise in the areas we're talking about, and are therefore no more credible than anyone else. "Shysters" was YOUR word, and it's a distortion.
SMASH says "People who've spent their lives next to crashing cymbals and in front of roaring amps and crowds," and you turn that into "Dead ears due to smashing cymbals, touring and such." This is a distortion. Surely you can't possibly be unaware that ongoing exposure to loud sounds does in fact accelerate hearing loss? You can bet that Victor and Adam are aware of it. Such loss is progressive and not necessarily total (that is, ears don't go straight from "perfect" to "dead"), but it's real and it does exist. (And this is without even considering hearing loss with age.) I fail to see how mentioning this pretty well known fact adds up to saying that Wooten's and Nitti's ears are "dead." If you want to argue that all that exposure to on-stage sound couldn't possibly have affected any pro musician's hearing for the worse at all, that's your right. Good luck with that; I fear you'll need it.
SMASH says "who are often endorsing a different amp/cab/guitar every other month," and you turn that into "gear whores." Surely it hasn't escaped your notice that "celebrity" bass players actually do often change their gear preferences? And that they sometimes accept endorsements for reasons that are at least partially monetary? (Something, BTW, that many TBers would have no big problem with--people have to make a living, after all.) You deliberately made what SMASH said more inflammatory than it really was. "Whores" was YOUR word. Again, that's distortion and misrepresentation, and it's coming from you.
SMASH says "Mr. Wooten is just as susceptible to the power of suggestion as anyone else, I'd argue much more so than most after having read his book," and you turn that into an attack on Wooten's intelligence. You need to understand--and you should already understand--that suggestibility is NOT equivalent to intelligence. Virtually all of us, including highly intelligent people, are susceptible to suggestion, of one sort or another and to some degree or other. Why do you think double-blind tests are designed the way they are? To eliminate the possible effects of suggestion and bias, that's why. Even those highly intelligent scientists know that the power of suggestion can influence their results if they let it. Pointing out human suggestibility says nothing at all about intelligence or the lack of it, and again, it's distortion and misrepresentation on your part to pretend that it does.
If you're going to take issue with what people say, as is your right, at least have the common courtesy to address what they actually say. Don't make stuff up, and don't misrepresent other people's words. I can completely understand not enjoying the feeling that you're being jumped on. Nobody likes that. But it doesn't help things to ratchet up the emotional temperature by exaggerating what people say--which is something you've been doing in this thread since post 62, when you falsely claimed that people were saying or implying that Vic and Adam were "tone-deaf" and "idiots."
btw, it's a well known fact that people with lower iq's don't hypnotize well because they lack the ability to respond to the power of suggestion, which is all hypnosis is. so actually, intelligent people are more susceptible to the power of suggestion.
