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Professional courtesy? Or every man for himself?
- Thread starter StraffordMike
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"Taking someone's job"? Really? It's common to have turnover in bands... Let's not get too sentimental here. People are giving their opinions. So are you. Quit trying to convince everyone that your way is the only way. That's what I'm getting out of it anyway, from your plethora of posts in this thread. It's not that big a deal to you, is it? You've said your piece and insulted a few folks already. Be done with it!
The first post also referred to a buddy.
What really matters is OP thinks enough of the guy and knows him well enough to be concerned for his feelings and want this to be as painless as possible. I admire that.
Yep, true. Sometimes the other bassist is a better fit. How would you feel if the band took off and you weren't there?
He simplified the situation in his question, I simplified my answer to him accordingly.
There is no need to sum up the entire thread every time you make a post.
But if you do have a point that you want to come across to me with, then please do your self a favor and read everything I wrote in this thread, including the replies I got on some of it.
Oh, and of course not least what OP actually wrote in his initial post.
Pardon me for paraphrasing... But I do have a point. Quit insulting the members here. You've been nothing but sarcastic and belittling to anyone with a different opinion than yours. The replies you've received are a direct consequence of how you've maturely communicated with others here.
How important is your friendship? How important is the gig? Are there gigs and or money involved? What kind of profile does she have? The fact is, if she's looking for a better player and you decline, she will just find someone else. You are not going to save your friend's gig for him. If the whole thing is handled professionally then there will be some hard feelings, but they will pass eventually. If it is "her" band, then she will handle it. For the moment, I'd keep your mouth shut and see how things play out.
Or, you could e-mail your friend a link to this thread...
Or, you could e-mail your friend a link to this thread...
Again, I have to ask: Why? To what end?
But this time, I'll answer myself: To satisfy your idea of what it is to be nice to people. You are clinging rigidly to that for some local moral crusade, despite it's efficacy being brought into question with some bloody good arguments and examples in my opinion.
Do you not think, having read some of the potential problems of this course of action (telling the guy up front, of the conversation with the BL, before she gets to speak to him), that your moral compass may be just a bit on the blink here? Can you not also see that a more neutral course of action would avoid those problems? Will you not entertain the idea that there is also a moral responsibility to the BL who of course would not expect it to go any further.
Anything anyone ever says to me is in confidence unless they tell me otherwise. I have people I trust with my life, my non-existent kids and up to half my bow-tie collection who I would not tell anothers' secret to. It's not my secret to tell. To repeat it strikes me as a touch too "inadmissable" and a whole smashing uppercut too "snitchy".
As Sir Humphrey Appleby said, "He that would keep a secret must keep it secret that he hath a secret to keep."
My point is clear and well made. Disingenuousness is an ugly thing.
- Oct 7, 2000
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- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
This is an exaggeration. Apart from one initial post which has been deleted I think, NoiseNinja has been perfectly civilised. His position is one which leads to being viewed as a bit preachy, but it adds a level of commitment to the argument that means those wishing to disagree are going to have to come up with something better than the usual ad hominems and tu quoques (not saying that's what you're doing, RickyWoo).
Can't read whole thread now, but suggest following principles:
1. Look before you leap. Does Singer have a viable project and gigs? Does she really want you? Do you really want her, or the rest of her band? Perhaps no need to get into it with your friend if you otherwise determine that Singer's thing is not happening. Also recommend telling singer that you know the existing bassist, and say whatever you honestly can say about the good aspects of his playing, and see how she responds.
2. Be kind to friend, but if he's not happening, then someone's gonna get that gig anyway, and it may as well be you. So you definitely want to talk to friend, probably on the early side of things, but it makes sense to do a bit of that pre-leap looking first, before you even go there. And letting him know he's on thin ice is information he should have, even if you're not gunning for the gig.
1. Look before you leap. Does Singer have a viable project and gigs? Does she really want you? Do you really want her, or the rest of her band? Perhaps no need to get into it with your friend if you otherwise determine that Singer's thing is not happening. Also recommend telling singer that you know the existing bassist, and say whatever you honestly can say about the good aspects of his playing, and see how she responds.
2. Be kind to friend, but if he's not happening, then someone's gonna get that gig anyway, and it may as well be you. So you definitely want to talk to friend, probably on the early side of things, but it makes sense to do a bit of that pre-leap looking first, before you even go there. And letting him know he's on thin ice is information he should have, even if you're not gunning for the gig.
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Do you respect the other bass player? Does the other bass player get you other gigs? Do you have mutual connections with the other bass player? Is the other bass player influential in any way? Do you have debilitating sympathy?
If yes to any of these, I would start by approaching the other bass player. At least ask him how the band is going, and if he's happy in it. Maybe he's on his way out on his own accord. If so, then you're in luck on all fronts. But maybe he's none the wiser about the singer's contempt. In which case, you have a tough decision on your hands.
Rewards to taking the gig: Good band. More gigs. More money (assumed). More fun (maybe, or maybe it's all stress. Depends how you click with the band).
Risks to taking the gig: Contempt from the other bass player, and anyone who empathizes with him/her. Karma. Cut-throat band mentality (risk of losing your own bass job to a better bassist). Possible high expectations from the singer/other band members.
If yes to any of these, I would start by approaching the other bass player. At least ask him how the band is going, and if he's happy in it. Maybe he's on his way out on his own accord. If so, then you're in luck on all fronts. But maybe he's none the wiser about the singer's contempt. In which case, you have a tough decision on your hands.
Rewards to taking the gig: Good band. More gigs. More money (assumed). More fun (maybe, or maybe it's all stress. Depends how you click with the band).
Risks to taking the gig: Contempt from the other bass player, and anyone who empathizes with him/her. Karma. Cut-throat band mentality (risk of losing your own bass job to a better bassist). Possible high expectations from the singer/other band members.
That's fair. I just didn't care for said initial post. That's not to suggest that anyone should care for what I do or don't care for. Just rubbed me the wrong way. I stand by my posts in that the OP should stay out of it. It's not just the integrity of the person losing their bass gig here. It's the integrity of the OP and the BL, as I've said before. Leave band issues in the hands of band members. The OP isn't a band member and might end up with a much larger dilemma on their hands.
I take gigs from people all the time. That's the business. There are 3 band leaders in town that I'm on the list for. When the normal guy can't take it they call me.
If she's serious about the music she should have the best players. It depends on how close of an aquatence it is.
If she's serious about the music she should have the best players. It depends on how close of an aquatence it is.
