Reiner Amplification Megathread

[silky smoove]

Didn't have a ton of time to spend with the Studio 1200 last night, but I did get a chance to play my TRBX505 through it. As I expected it conveyed the very "polite" sound of that bass very accurately. This was the first opportunity to play a B-string through it. I've always found that bass to have a wimpy B-string, but even with the amp cranked it handled it just fine. I was able to generate considerably more overdrive with the low B than any of my 4-strings. Very snarly in that application, but not all the way into overdrive pedal territory. Still digging it!

 

[JGR]

Initial test results are in!

Overall: The build quality is very very good. The input jack has a nice sturdy snap to it when inserting a cable. The knobs all have a good level of positive resistance. The front panel switches feel robust. The PowerCon jack is new to me, but does what it's supposed to and seems quite secure.

Gain: The front end of this thing is perhaps my favorite part of the amp. The overdrive is absolutely beautiful. Using my EMG JVX/BTC equipped Jazz bass I can take it from completely clean up to a very smooth overdrive. Very smooth. Boosting the treble on my onboard BTC preamp can make it sound a little more ugly, but that doesn't appear to be what this amp is meant to do. This is just fine with me as I have pedals that make things sound ugly. Speaking of pedals; The way this thing overdrives makes me think that I'll be ditching my Fairfield Barbershop ME. Time to go re-up my Talkbass supporting membership and consider listing it. I've been a big advocate of the Barbershop, but the overdrive on the Studio1200 is simply too good to use anything else on my board for that purpose. That also frees up space to grab some other fun pedal for the board.

EQ: Exactly what I want in an EQ; Predictability. Boost and cut levels are about where I would like them. Powerful, but not so powerful that you quickly end up in unusable territory.

Misc: Maybe @JGR can clear this part up for me; Under no circumstances could I get the clip light to come on. I assume this is for the front end, and not the power amp, but no amount of gain and EQ boosting could get me into the range that caused the clip to come on under heavy slapping.

Negatives: It can't all be good right. That's what I thought at first, but... I think it is. When I first plugged in the head I was getting a lot more hiss out of the tweeter on my Bergantino HD210 than I was with my Eden WT-550. I assumed the amp might be noisy up top, which seemed odd given the seemingly universal praise it has been receiving. Upon closer inspection the speakon cable I was using appears to have gotten crimped over somehow. I suspect that's the cause of the extra noise as the Eden is now doing the same thing, and it was not doing that yesterday. Tomorrow night I'll disassemble the speakon, cut out the crimped portion and reassemble. If I absolute MUST find one thing to cite as a negative it's that the fan is a little louder than I expected. It's quieter than the fan on my old GK MB800, so I'm going to file it as a non-issue at this point.

Verdict: This thing is a winner. More testing will need to happen, but I'm confident that this is an absolutely fantastic amp.

Hey Chris,

Thanks for taking the time to articulate your impressions - you've said it much better than I could have! My standard marketing is "I think it sounds nice and you guys might like it".

Regarding the EQ, that was the whole inspiration behind new preamp design. I wanted to get past some of the design constraints imparted by more conventional designs to improve clarity, coherency, and musicality. I was up a lot of late nights with my with first child with a lot of random things churning in the background when I came up with it - I also came up with this thing called the flux capacitor, but it doesn't apply here.

Anyway, I'm pretty proud of it because it's a totally unique design which is pretty rare these days, especially with tubes. The components used in EQs have a big effect - you have your typical IC based SS EQ's, then you have your vintage SS inductor EQ's which are still really popular in high end recoding gear. Then you have mine which uses inductors for the lower four bands, with the whole thing being driven by tube gain stages which you just don't typically see (other than the SVT midrange control), and mine uses a different circuit and gain stage architecture which also isn't common in MI designs. So the inductors impart their own characteristics as do their interaction with the tube stages driving them. The goal is something that sounds very musical and that has a certain weightiness that you won't get with a typical SS design, even if you slap a tube in front of it. I spent a lot of time dialing in the Q's for the mid bands and the shelving points for the bass and treble so that they all play nice together, are where you want them, and work it an intuitive manner. And then I tried to voice the preamp so that you never have to use them! This type of EQ is a lot more complex (and expensive - just the inductor cost alone really adds up), but it's a differentiator and it gives those subtle qualities that might just make all the difference. And it also maintains a higher level of sonic purity, for lack of a better term, compared to more conventional approaches, which may be useful for accurate reproduction of the instruments' more subtle nuances.

 

[murphy]

Bing!!! There is a huge selling point

 

[silky smoove]

Thanks for the clarification @JGR. It's cool to hear about the tech and then have a real world example to quantify the explanation. Weight is definitely a good descriptor to the tone of this amp. I mentioned it before, but the weight behind the notes (the slam, the heft, the blah blah blah) is very apparent. The only amps I've owned that had a comparable feel were an Aguilar DB750 and a GK 2001RB, and that is some VERY fine company. This amp has the edge on those because of the better gain control and overdrive capability, along with the most usable EQ I've ever used in an amp.

I'm still shocked at the intuitive nature of this thing. If I want to get it to a certain place tonally I can do it in seconds and zero confusion. This seems like something that should be possible on all amps, but after having fought with many an EQ I can assure you it's quite uncommon.

Now you just need to get your cabs fully flushed out and onto the market so I can further drain my bank account. Your tall 210 unit looks especially interesting.

 

[silky smoove]

Speaking of your 210. What's the scoop? I love the form factor from what I've seen on your Facebook page, and the soundclips sound excellent. Is there a timeline for making them available?

 

[smeet]

My standard marketing is "I think it sounds nice and you guys might like it".

Hmmm. Not quite as pithy as "Release the Booty Rockets," but it could work on a t shirt.

 

[JGR]

Speaking of your 210. What's the scoop? I love the form factor from what I've seen on your Facebook page, and the soundclips sound excellent. Is there a timeline for making them available?

View attachment 757709

Thanks for asking - indeed its something else I'm pretty excited about. I've been working on some concepts the last few years and once I got my head around it, finally built some proto's this year and dialed in the various alignment parameters. There's a few different driver sizes and combinations - the 210 you posted has two of the 110's firing into a common port (imagine two 110s stacked end to end). Might be a useful form factor if you have a head that will fit on top since it gets the drivers closer to your ears - would be tilt and roll. I've also got a design for the same thing without the shared port so its a little wider and not as tall - should sound the same, and its on the prioirty list to get the proto built. More traditional and compact form-factor.

There are two different driver configs - this one is definitely "rock" - is has pretty deep low end extension and a top end up to around 7kHz, designd for smooth cone breakup. It's four ohms (but can also be done in eight) and I've fed the S1200 into it full bore with no problems. Very LOUD - I think it could be a one cab solution even for high-volume gigs; it has a very high sensitivity. @Fuzzbass got to experience it first hand so maybe he can weigh in with his impressions.

I have a second version of the 210 that will also include a soft dome mid (like the 15 cab), and it has a -3dB in the low 40's. It's the more full-range, HiFi variant.

I hope to get a few into the wild in 2016.

Technical scoop on the alignment:
Theory of Design and Operation – Reiner Amplification “Hybrid Reflex”

By altering internal cabinet geometry, acoustical resistance is created during the compression/decompression of the reciprocating air mass through which the speaker’s rear wave is propagated. When tuned accordingly, impedance peaks are reduced, effective enclosure volume and output below Fs is increased, and control of cone excursion is maintained well-below the cutoff frequency. This allows for huge port volume (for maximum output and minimal turbulence), along with lower tuning from a smaller enclosure (a shorter port length is required compared to conventional reflex designs). The internal layout decreases the number of parallel surfaces which reduces standing waves; in conjunction with advanced damping materials and the inherent stiffness of the structure, this also increases driver transient response and reduces resonant peaks, resulting in clearer, more even sound reproduction, which in turn lowers the tendency to exacerbate room modes. The end result is increased low end extension and transient response in a compact enclosure.

 

[silky smoove]

I'll be excited to see how things shape up. I'm perfectly happy with my Bergantino HD210, and have plans to add a second. That said, I'm always looking for a better single cab solution. Your 210 with the "rock" voicing sounds pretty ideal. I like the taller form factor and what I would call a realistic frequency response as I ended up not liking the 3-way, full range type cabs.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Technical scoop on the alignment:
Theory of Design and Operation – Reiner Amplification “Hybrid Reflex”

By altering internal cabinet geometry, acoustical resistance is created during the compression/decompression of the reciprocating air mass through which the speaker’s rear wave is propagated. When tuned accordingly, impedance peaks are reduced, effective enclosure volume and output below Fs is increased, and control of cone excursion is maintained well-below the cutoff frequency. This allows for huge port volume (for maximum output and minimal turbulence), along with lower tuning from a smaller enclosure (a shorter port length is required compared to conventional reflex designs). The internal layout decreases the number of parallel surfaces which reduces standing waves; in conjunction with advanced damping materials and the inherent stiffness of the structure, this also increases driver transient response and reduces resonant peaks, resulting in clearer, more even sound reproduction, which in turn lowers the tendency to exacerbate room modes. The end result is increased low end extension and transient response in a compact enclosure.

Ummmm......???

@Fuzzbass got to experience it first hand so maybe he can weigh in with his impressions.

Oh, that. Yes... I witnessed first-hand the A/B with the NV412: with amp settings unchanged, the JGR 2x10 had wider frequency response (not a huge surprise) but was also LOUDER... definitely a surprise! Test was performed at volume, too. I'm not sure that we reached MAX volume of either cab, but the 2x10's efficiency seemed unreal. Of course the NV cabs were not designed with efficiency in mind... but still, two tens outperformed four twelves!

High on my GAS list for 2016 is JGR's modular 3x10.

 

[kringle77]

3x10 you say?

 

[Fuzzbass]

3x10 you say?

Modular 3x10: 2x10 + 1x10!

 

[Fuzzbass]

I'll be excited to see how things shape up. I'm perfectly happy with my Bergantino HD210, and have plans to add a second. That said, I'm always looking for a better single cab solution. Your 210 with the "rock" voicing sounds pretty ideal. I like the taller form factor and what I would call a realistic frequency response as I ended up not liking the 3-way, full range type cabs.

To re-repeat myself: the NV610 is my favorite cab for tone (same as you I don't care for modern hi-fi three-way cabs), but it's a beast to move around. I just got a pair of CN210 cabs, which are the nicest neos I've heard. I'm pretty sure I'd prefer the HDs for tone, but I want my secondary rig to be as small and light as possible. (My 2xCN112 stack was of course smaller and lighter than my 2xCN210 stack, but as it turns out I occasionally need more oomph than a pair of twelves can provide).

So as noted, I'm extremely interested in JGR's 10" designs. A 1x10 plus the 2x10 will probably be a bit heavier than my 2xCN210 stack, but it'll be a bit less bulky so for practical purposes (for me) it should be a wash. I believe the JGR "modular 3x10" will be just as gig-worthy, and I also believe that I will prefer the tone -- one big reason is that I prefer mid driver to tweet, but I suspect there will be more reasons.

I'm not dissing my CN210 stack: it's everything I expected (partly because my expectations remain low for neo drivers). I'm just amazed by what I heard from Jon's 10" designs.

P.S. Jon's 15" plus mid driver was also amazing, but tall 2x10 plus small 1x10 is a better fit for me.

 

[JGR]

3x10 you say?

I was going to (and still can) do a vertical 310 (it's a great form-factor) but the 210 was so alarmingly powerful that I kind of shelved the idea once I heard it.

 

[smeet]

So the 210 is a match for a traditional 810?
Does it give that feeling of "bigness" that an 810 does?

How does the overall tone compare to other cabinets out there? It obviously has a much wider frequency range than the nv610. Does it sound anything like an Ampeg 810?

 

[JGR]

So the 210 is a match for a traditional 810?
Does it give that feeling of "bigness" that an 810 does?

How does the overall tone compare to other cabinets out there? It obviously has a much wider frequency range than the nv610. Does it sound anything like an Ampeg 810?

I can't comment here with comparisons to other cabs, but you can PM or email me.

 

[smeet]

I can't comment here with comparisons to other cabs, but you can PM or email me.

Oops, didn't want to put you in an awkward position... I'll email you.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

 

[JGR]

Very cool Dave, thanks for putting that together! I've got a VMT (and B3K) on order, very excited to try them! How's the new five string working out? I just ordered parts to do a PJ fiver (roasted maple reverse tele headstock and lightweight 51 slab alder body finished in butterscotch blonde). Also want to get a turbo tuner - I'm following in your footsteps!

 

[tombowlus]

Very cool Dave, thanks for putting that together! I've got a VMT (and B3K) on order, very excited to try them!

Love, love, love the Darkglass stuff!

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Very cool Dave, thanks for putting that together! I've got a VMT (and B3K) on order, very excited to try them! How's the new five string working out? I just ordered parts to do a PJ fiver (roasted maple reverse tele headstock and lightweight 51 slab alder body finished in butterscotch blonde). Also want to get a turbo tuner - I'm following in your footsteps!

Thanks Jonathan! The five string bass has been a major change for me. I acquired it last July and have played it almost exclusively since then. What a world of difference! Opens up all kinds of new expression. I'm especially "jazzed" by the Sadowsky preamp. Once I figured out how it worked, it made a night-and-day difference in tone.

The Darkglass VMT does a fine job. I'm not into huge distortion. This pedal works great for filling in the sound when the band mix gets rockin'. I've used a Turbo Tuner for several years and just upgraded to the new 300 model because it provides a brighter image, which is handy for all the outdoor-in-the-sun gigs I play. Had to shade the 200 model's display to see it in the sun.

One thing that surprised me about this tone demo was how similar your DI is to the mic'd signal. The Barefaced BB2 is known for a clear signal, and while I have the "PA-like" horn dialed off about 33%, the sound of the mic'd cab is still nearly identical to your DI. Based on this test, I will never rue leaving the bass mic home from a gig when I do a live recording because the Studio 1200's DI renders a perfect image of what's coming out of the cab. You did an excellent job with this amp -- I continue to be amazed by its capabilities!