Double Bass Respect What is it? How do you earn it? (DB Forum thread)

[Don Higdon]

done in typical OCD fashion.

Meaning what?

 

[Treyzer]

@Drurb, your last post was a gem. It was so well thought out and well written. Thank you for the effort and your insight!

 

[RBrownBass]

I wonder on what you base that generalization. I've been around here a while and that's not at all how I'd characterize what happens. To paraphrase what I said in a previous post in this thread, just as in face-to-face conversations, it matters very much how one asks what he or she asks. Newbies are helped along here regularly and many of them don't know the usual terminology. They are not put upon for their ignorance. When they are put upon, it is because they ask with an air of entitlement, challenge the advice for which they asked, have their minds made up before they ask, don't bother to do a bit of research, or demand an immediate and comprehensive answer.

Your post is great, and I've learned a lot from lurking more than I post.

That said, I've seen several posters (some were EB players, some doublers, some DB only, but with no discography that the forum members knew of) describe something as they saw it only to be told that it wasn't what they thought it was. The responding posters, even when asked, rarely, if ever, say why the disagreement is anything more than a mere difference of opinion.

In the Why isn't Jazz more popular" thread, post 401, Aussie EB player ras1983 listed Michael Buble as a jazz singer. That post was responded to by Eric Hochberg with "(He's) not a jazz performer". Eric did not say early on why Buble wasn't (saying at first in response to a comparison with Bing and Sinatra "No, unless you think the occasional, short instrumental solos within the tunes make it jazz)" and then after being pressed a bit for logic from Fingerbun ("So your definition of jazz includes extended instrumental breaks as a mandatory component?") replied, "Its a start".

Not one syllable of explanation... just (translated) "I know, you don't, and I'm not telling you. So there. Now... if you genuflect enough to suit me, I'll tell you, but don't act like you have a right to your opinion when you don't play the string instrument that's traditionally associated with jazz".

I've personally had someone scroll down my profile and posting history and reply to a valid question by saying something about EB headstocks. As amusing as it was to be trolled because of my familiarity with more than one instrument, I also knew it was time to start looking elsewhere for whatever info I might need one day. The Internet's a nice tool, but there are young posters out there for whom it's the only tool. I'd hope that one day the forum changes so the honest ones get their questions answered without the hairflinging- for their sake.

I've seen plenty of negative references here to fakebooks (I'm on the fence about them myself) but none on why having one around to take a quick look at a tune you're not familiar with is a Bad Thang. None on what one ought to do in between one's first couple decades of playing and the day you've committed to memory any tune you'll ever be asked to play.

 

[Anonymatt]

Observations:
This stuff is great. If it weren't for trolls, I'd probably just re-read the John Goldsby's book over and over again. I could read this whole thread twice in the time it would take me to watch an episode of a soap-style tv show. And everyone knows that tv rots your brain.

I've participated in so many forums over the years. I even became a primary guru in one of them, which had all the same dynamics as this one, even though it was 90s
AOL and was mostly about hurting yourself on rollerblades. I always let my henchmen deal with the trolls.

You know that Suraci guy? I have nothing against him, but he's all over the dang place. Same formatting, same age relative to the rest of the group, same vibe, same reactions from the established members of the group. Uncanny.

There's always a core group on a forum that reminds me of the main characters on Star Trek. Sometimes a little friction between them but no permanent strife. Fans of Deep Space Nine find this to be kinda obnoxious. It's cool with me, because I'm a Next Gen man, myself, and I mostly feed on good vibes. Remember how awkward it was when Counselor Troi started dating Worf? Yeah, they sorted that out, all right...

EDIT: btw, Rick Berman ruined Star Trek.

 

[drurb]

Excellent response, Febs. Thank you!


When a newcomer to the forum arrives (walks into the bar), he or she (not "they") doesn't need to know at all who are the veterans or who are those who are accomplished in various areas. There are no "elite members." ....

Quite well done, sir!

yup, that was a pretty good second person surgical scrubbing, done in typical OCD fashion.

Hey Jamie---

Sorry, I'm not buying the "". Once again, you missed reading between the lines. That's not surprising, given that you often misconstrue what's in the lines themselves.

I'd venture to say that most here caught on to the subtle (and meant to be entertaining) nature of deliberately treating tabdog's "shoot from the hip" post the way I did. That was the fun of it. It was a deliberate dispassionate dissection and response. Don't get me wrong. Every answer I gave was honest and, apparently, some (most?) found it helpful.

You'll probably come back now and say you did understand that and that you were continuing the stream. Uh-huh, sure.

You just had to lob in another grenade. You ought to know that members here are growing rather tired of it.

...done in typical OCD fashion.

Meaning what?

I think we know, Don. I think we know.

 

[drurb]

Your post is great, and I've learned a lot from lurking more than I post.

That said, I've seen several posters (some were EB players, some doublers, some DB only, but with no discography that the forum members knew of) describe something as they saw it only to be told that it wasn't what they thought it was.....

Thank you for posting this. Here's my view. Sometimes folks do post their opinions without explanation. That shouldn't, necessarily, be taken as condescending. I'm very confident that if you asked Eric for the basis of his statement, he'd give you a fine answer. You really can't expect people posting here to give chapter and verse on the basis of their opinions every time. I disagree that people, when asked (in a cordial fashion) rarely will explain the basis of their statements.

I'm not blind to the fact that regulars here can give responses that are ill-considered. Mea culpa... I've sure done it. We're all human.

I just don't see condescension as a general attribute of what goes on here, especially as concerns newbies. Of course, you may see it differently.

I can only hope that we'll all try to do a bit better in this regard. There are some rotten ones but, in my opinion, this is a barrel of some really fine apples.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Part of the issue with what may be percieved by newbies a condescension is possibly impatience. Newbies should have the courtesy of doing a bit of research by searching for the answer to their query and getting the general lay of the land before diving in.

Carrying the 'bar' metaphor further, just picture a newbie meeting Ray Brown or Eugene Levinson in a bar and, with no introduction demanding to know what strings or cover to buy. I suspect both men to advise the newbie to learn to play the instrument first.


Sure, we were all new to this at some point in our lives but most of us have learned by now. I was given Ben Wolfe's phone number this year and encouraged to call him for some pointers. It took me several days to grow the b***s to finally call him, I left him a nice voice mail, telling him how much I admired his playing and asked him to call me when it was convenient. Several weeks later he called and was very helpful. I realize that the information transfer was pretty much one way. I have nothing but gratitute to offer and he gladly accepted the payment. Because we had a good conversation, we now have the basis for a friendship. We will meet in the future and I may get a lesson or two.
Were I to have demanded to pick his brain I would have gotten absolutely nowhere.

Respect.

We have several very accomplished people on this forum who are at the very top of their game and have played with or are currently playing with the best in the Bz. I appreciate that they are willing to share with us.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Thank you for posting this. Here's my view. Sometimes folks do post their opinions without explanation. That shouldn't, necessarily, be taken as condescending. I'm very confident that if you asked Eric for the basis of his statement, he'd give you a fine answer. You really can't expect people posting here to give chapter and verse on the basis of their opinions every time. I disagree that people, when asked (in a cordial fashion) rarely will explain the basis of their statements.

I'm not blind to the fact that regulars here can give responses that are ill-considered. Mea culpa... I've sure done it. We're all human.

I just don't see condescension as a general attribute of what goes on here, especially as concerns newbies. Of course, you may see it differently.

I can only hope that we'll all try to do a bit better in this regard. There are some rotten ones but, in my opinion, this is a barrel of some really fine apples.

Thank you, Les. I was considering what if anything to say here, and you said it for me. I was pretty terse in the "why jazz isn't popular" thread. Generally, I try and help people with good info and add to the positive flow when I can. I just didn't have the energy to spell it all out in what some would consider a more informative and constructive way in that thread. Maybe I should have just stayed out of it, but I think even in my abruptness, I brought out a few valid points to consider.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

 

[Febs]

You know, notwithstanding my own advice in my last post, I don't know if I'll ever be able to read enough of these forums to truly understand Ed's fascination with gerbils.

 

[fingerbun]

We have several very accomplished people on this forum who are at the very top of their game and have played with or are currently playing with the best in the Bz. I appreciate that they are willing to share with us.

Agree 100%.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

You know, notwithstanding my own advice in my last post, I don't know if I'll ever be able to read enough of these forums to truly understand Ed's fascination with gerbils.

It's not the gerbil, it's the noise the little wheel makes as it spins around. It's kind of annoying, but at least the gerbil doesn't get anywhere.

It a metaphor.

 

[MR PC]

Meaning what?

It's a metaphor.

 

[Don Higdon]

It's a metaphor.

Meaning what?

 

[MR PC]

first a question for you Don......were you a TB Moderator at one time?

 

[drurb]

Excellent response, Febs. Thank you!
When a newcomer to the forum arrives (walks into the bar), he or she (not "they") doesn't need to know at all who are the veterans or who are those who are accomplished in various areas. There are no "elite members." ....

Quite well done, sir!

...done in typical OCD fashion.

Meaning what?

It's a metaphor.

Meaning what?

first a question for you Don......were you a TB Moderator at one time?

Here you go again, Jamie.

 

[MR PC]

you're covering......

 

[Don Higdon]

first a question for you Don......were you a TB Moderator at one time?

Yes.
Are you going to answer my question?

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Meaning what?

Thanks, Don! When someone's a DOMIL (Denizen Of My Ignore List), the only time I see their response is if it's quoted. In answer to your question, apparently said domil takes exception when I lapse into street...

 

[MR PC]

Don, I think you know better than to push this then.....and I'm surprised that former mods aren't required to disclose that kind of info in their profiles. So be it then..... you never can really know who is posting, even if they use their real life name.

It's a good thread, and it's a good thing that it was moved here, imo.