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Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)

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#2,961
Larry Kaye said:
Keep those comments coming about practcial, real world portability of Schroe's vs others. Then once we got a Neo choice, we should reevaluate. I gotta believe it's gonna get even better!!

Lkaye
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OK;
I bought my 410 when I switched to DB because my SWR goliath III 410 was getting buried on stage, and I had already previously tried a henry 8x8, which also "disappeared in the mix" on stage. I was powering either of these with an eden navigator, qsc/plx 1602...16000 watts bridged into 4 ohms. You would think that would get it done, but it absolutely didn't.
I called Jorg, told him the battle I was fighting, and losing, and asked what he recommended. The Schroeder 410 deliverd the goods in spade. I could hear myself, and I sounded good:) And in terms of volume and tone with electric bass, it absolutely slaughters the swr 410 or 8x8. And, it's lighter than either of them by about 30-40lbs.
I was using an swr baby blue 2x8 for small jobs, and an swr supre redhead for medium jobs. I still love the 2x8 for small er jobs (and studio work) but it has definate limits live.
Enter the Schroeder 1210. Combined with a TFB420, the 1210 definately outperforms most 410's. The 1210 powered by 400 watts can easily hang with the swr 410 powered by 1600 watts. And the TFB420/1210 combination is smaller and easier to carry than the swr redhead.

I'm a real happy guy.
 
#2,963
Jonki said:
about the 1212, is there two inputs or just one? are the two speakers in 16ohm each and then in paralelled to 8ohm?
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You have your choice of 1/4" or speakon to use for inputs located on the back of the cabinet.

It's not bi-ampable. (you can use one of the inputs, not both)

(and it comes in 8 or 4 ohms, but that doesn't pertain to your question really)
 
#2,964
If someone wanted the choice of 4 or 8 ohms, didn't they have to go with a mini 12? Wasn't aware of any 8 ohm options in medium, large, or eLarge boxes? Could be wrong and won't mind if someone else knows different would tell me!!!

Lkaye
 
#2,966
Larry Kaye said:
If someone wanted the choice of 4 or 8 ohms, didn't they have to go with a mini 12? Wasn't aware of any 8 ohm options in medium, large, or eLarge boxes? Could be wrong and won't mind if someone else knows different would tell me!!!

Lkaye
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I might be mistaken but I thought he was willing to do either 8 or 4 ohms for most of his cabinets on special request.
 
#2,967
Larry Kaye said:
If someone wanted the choice of 4 or 8 ohms, didn't they have to go with a mini 12? Wasn't aware of any 8 ohm options in medium, large, or eLarge boxes? Could be wrong and won't mind if someone else knows different would tell me!!!

Lkaye
Click to expand...

I've got the 1212 cabinet running at 8 ohms.
 
#2,968
My new idea... I'd like your thoughts


And this one is actually reasonable!!!!


Ok...here's what I'm thinking about doing.


My rig is pretty compact as is...but I think I can go smaller without much sacrifice.

I'm thinking of switching to an airhead mini12...and put a mesa walkabout in there.

Anyone use this combo? (not necessarily in airhead) or have tried it?

I'm still amazed at how little I push my power amp. I'm currently only running one channel of it (350w). I keep my volume on my preamp at noon on gain and master. With my power amp level set at 9 o'clock at most and it's very loud. Generally it stays closer to 7 o'clock.


So, do you think a walkabout through a mini 12...pushing the amp a little more would give me similar volume? I pretty much always have PA support.



That was the practical part.

Now here's the fun part.

Saving up in the future for a L or XL schroeder airhead ...with a big tasty poweramp inside running from the DI out of the walkabout. Using this whenever I need that extra.

Thoughts? This just seems like to good of an idea to me...
 
#2,969
It's a powered cabinet with some sorta digital interface to it. again I'm not a tech expert...but once Jorg gets the lightweight version of the cabinets together, putting a 1000 watt digial amp weighing 4 pounds into the cabinet and buying a footpedal sized preamp/DI or using the DI or pre from another head you like, well it seems like that 's where we're gonna be headed. The only difference is that the amp won't be in an airhead space necessarily. Maybe it would be on the bottom or side wall of the cabinet, like the old Acoustic 360 is. I just like the idea that we're all thinking about ways to keep the progress going in an attempt to get the most for less weight. Someone has to be looking out for us bass players. Next to most drummers, we're the ones who have the hardest shlepping to do, the heaviest instrument on our shoulders, and usually the most responsibility musically in the band. It's about time that our needs were being addressed by people like Jorg.

LKaye
 
#2,970
Larry Kaye said:
It's a powered cabinet with some sorta digital interface to it. again I'm not a tech expert...but once Jorg gets the lightweight version of the cabinets together, putting a 1000 watt digial amp weighing 4 pounds into the cabinet and buying a footpedal sized preamp/DI or using the DI or pre from another head you like, well it seems like that 's where we're gonna be headed. The only difference is that the amp won't be in an airhead space necessarily. Maybe it would be on the bottom or side wall of the cabinet, like the old Acoustic 360 is. I just like the idea that we're all thinking about ways to keep the progress going in an attempt to get the most for less weight. Someone has to be looking out for us bass players. Next to most drummers, we're the ones who have the hardest shlepping to do, the heaviest instrument on our shoulders, and usually the most responsibility musically in the band. It's about time that our needs were being addressed by people like Jorg.

LKaye
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Just to clarify, I'm pretty sure the Bergantino IP series (powered w/DSP tweakage) is a totally seperate entity to the Bergantino-Sadowsky cab (non-powered).
 
#2,971
The Sadowsky version isn't powered....absolutely correct. My oversight completely! :(

I did find the discussion about the cabinet interesting, but I still have to wonder why Mr. Bergantino for now has committed his future designs to using only ceramic or standard magnets. It seems that the speaker companies are really pushing their development and improvements to the lightweight speakers. It's not just the marketing hype. Epifani has gone Neo exclusively. Genz Benz, Ampeg has 'em, GK, our beloved Jorg (thank you, thank you, thank you!!! is going there, EA. These folks all believe in their tone and reliability and if these speakers didn't show it, they wouldn't be so fast on the trigger to add them to their product mix.

Maybe our guitar playing friends (some of 'em being not so friendly at times) don't care about lighter weight 'cause they don't need heavy magnets on their speakers? But us bass players who don't burn out as fast as those party animal lead players and are still around kickin' butt at 65 years old (not me, I'm only 57!!!) Our bodies can't handle anymore the abuse and damage that carrying SVT cabinets up and down flights of stairs did in our youths, and the tradition continued with our 410's and 212's.....at least they were SMALLER cabinets...gee....an SVT 810 weighed about 140? when I was younger, the 410's and 212's which were not nearly as loud still weighed 80 pounds.....what kind of bargain was that? Oh I forgot, I didn't need to buy a truck or van...it fit into a "normal" car's trunk (sometimes....my Eden 210XLT didn't!!! fit into a Dodge Intrepid's!!!)!

If Jorg's new to be released cabinets are tonewise and efficiency like he's thinking they're gonna be, and the only thing we're gonna miss is a 50-100 watt per speaker capacity reduction from originally 500 for a 12 and 350 for 10, AND a 30-40% weight drop, I gotta believe a lot of cab makers are gonna be hurtin' puppies in the mid/high end market real soon.

It all starts with someone looking to improve his tone and playing and then giving the invention to the public. Jorg coulda stopped after building his own rig. From the reaction, I have to believe that not only has he made a great initial choice to meet our needs and share it with us, but I can't wait to get hold of a couple of Schroeder lights. I mean...come on...70 pounds for a 1700 watt, 310212 projected weight? You gotta be kiddin' me.

Here's a projected weight list. It's not official yet but what Jorg is striving for....they're approximates:

310212: ~ 70lbs.
410: ~ 55lbs.
21012: ~ 53lbs.
1212: ~ 38lbs.
1210: ~ 36lbs.
1010: ~ 35lbs.
Mini 12: ~ 20lbs.

These weights are nuts!!!! Get me close to the "schro" tone and close to the efficiency and I'll be there!!

Lkaye
 
#2,973
I playing my first gig last weekend with my 1210 and I really liked it. I didn't get a chance to push it as much as I'd like to have due to the small bar and this band I'm playing with isn't a LOUD band.

On the other hand my main band which IS loud, is playing a venue about 200-400 people cap. but I'm worried the 1210 won't be loud enough. We've played here before and I used an Eden 410T cab. The stage is raised about 2-3' and I'm pretty sure is hollow. I'm using a QSC RMX850 power amp and a RBI to push the 1210.

I've never had a chance at all to REALLY crank it and see how the cab takes the power and how loud I can push my amp without it clipping.

Any thoughts? Think I'll be okay?
 
#2,974
I would just say that I think Jim Bergantino will go wherever the technology will go (sometimes ahead of others, sometimes not).

He has his own reasons for not going neo up to this point and I would not argue with him.

He is an intelligent person who knows what he wants his products to sound like.

Each product designer has in their head what they want and that's what they strive to bring to us.

I can respect that.

:)
 
#2,975
Juniorkimbrough said:
I playing my first gig last weekend with my 1210 and I really liked it. I didn't get a chance to push it as much as I'd like to have due to the small bar and this band I'm playing with isn't a LOUD band.

On the other hand my main band which IS loud, is playing a venue about 200-400 people cap. but I'm worried the 1210 won't be loud enough. We've played here before and I used an Eden 410T cab. The stage is raised about 2-3' and I'm pretty sure is hollow. I'm using a QSC RMX850 power amp and a RBI to push the 1210.

I've never had a chance at all to REALLY crank it and see how the cab takes the power and how loud I can push my amp without it clipping.

Any thoughts? Think I'll be okay?
Click to expand...
I think you'll be fine.

You might take a piece of foam to put under your cab if the stage is too boomy, but I doubt you'll need it (don't be afraid to cut the bass a little if needed).

As far as how hard to push, just listen to the cab; it will let you know if you start to clip.
 
#2,977
lo-freq said:
I would just say that I think Jim Bergantino will go wherever the technology will go (sometimes ahead of others, sometimes not).

He has his own reasons for not going neo up to this point and I would not argue with him.

He is an intelligent person who knows what he wants his products to sound like.

Each product designer has in their head what they want and that's what they strive to bring to us.

I can respect that.

:)
Click to expand...

Excellent post, John. I know that tone comes first with Jim, and that this is the reason why he does not use neo drivers in his cabs at this point in time. I can certainly hear tonal differences in neo cabs. If you have a cab that needs a bit more upper midrange voice (such as, IMHO, in the Epifani T-112), then a neo driver may help, although to my ear, you do lose some low end presence. There are certainly cab designs using neo drivers that work really well. The EA NL-210 is a great example (although to be honest it doesn't have quite the low end solid punch of a Berg HT210, but it does have many other highly redeeming qualities).

I think that it is also quite true that neo is a developing technology, and that by most accounts, it is improving. My guess is that once neo drivers start performing in a manner consistent with Jim's design standards, he would probably start using them. He is not at all opposed to the idea of a lighter cab. Why make something heavier for no reason? If by using ceramic versus neo drivers, a speaker designer can produce a cab that performs more consistently with their design (and/or does a better job of delivering the tone that they are going for), then I think that's a darn fine reason. But, again, if Jim B. finds some neo drivers that would meet his design criteria, I am sure that he would give them a try.

Tom.
 
#2,978
Lets also be clear, the Neo's in the SCHROEDER CABINETS have never been used by another company, these are a new series. Eminence aso recalled all their old Neo speaker's... not sure what that means for all the cabs with them.... but Jorg and Jim Bergantino had very good reason up til now to not use Neo!

Jorg also compared the BC (sp) speaker's which some use and wasn't happy at all. Schroeder Cabinets will be the first with this New bread of Neo's!
 
#2,979
Brian Barrett said:
Lets also be clear, the Neo's in the SCHROEDER CABINETS have never been used by another company, these are a new series. Eminence aso recalled all their old Neo speaker's... not sure what that means for all the cabs with them.... but Jorg and Jim Bergantino had very good reason up til now to not use Neo!

Jorg also compared the BC (sp) speaker's which some use and wasn't happy at all. Schroeder Cabinets will be the first with this New bread of Neo's!
Click to expand...

Do you think I should have waited on the order (310212) I placed this week. Weight isn't a huge factor for me, tone is. But if i could get both by using neos, I'd be up for that.
 
#2,980
buzzbass said:
Do you think I should have waited on the order (310212) I placed this week. Weight isn't a huge factor for me, tone is. But if i could get both by using neos, I'd be up for that.
Click to expand...


The cast frames still have a little heavier sound to them, verse even the New Neo's, however the New Neo's do not have the thin sound they have had in the past. The NEW Neo's have an even sounding still retaining the bottom in part to Jorgs design and tuning. Schroeder's have always had a fat bottom, these will be a little bit more HiFi, but still with the Schroeder kick to them.

Maybe Jorg will come in and give a little feedback as well.
 
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