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Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)

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#3,663
O.K., thought I had it figured out, but after thinkin' 'bout it just a bit more, just can't decide which way to go.

Play (mostly) mid 60's - mid 80's rock/pop/some blues, funk, & disco. Not really too much that doesn't get touched on a little at least. Use an active jazz w/EMG 35 CS pups & Aggie obp-3, T I flats, & a 300 watt tube amp.

Was plannin' on a 410 & 1212 (from somewhere in this thread, a Jorg-recommended pairing which sounds great & makes perfect sense). $1918+ shipping.

Then started thinking 1212 x 2. The 1212's apparently put out some serious sound in their own right (giving most "normal" 410's a run for their $, if not outdoing them) & are pretty punchy to boot (when compared w/most other 12's). So, 2 of them together seems like a great rig. $1638 + shipping.

Then 410 x 2. As loud & punchy as the 1212's are, the 410's are louder & punchier, while still churning out some lows. Man, another seemingly great rig. $2198 + shipping.

Then 310212 (no, not x 2, although it flashed across my mind, lol). Very likely, in my opinion, the best single cab power/quality/price/value ratio made by anyone, period. But, even though 75 lbs is real light for something like what it is, it's still 75 lbs. Much less portable than the 2 cab combos, but at the same time, just a single trip. (Guess the 1212 x 2 would be a single trip, too, come to think of it.) $1390 + shipping.

So, there you have it. I know I can't go wrong with any of these. Although $ is $ & I'd prefer to pay less than more, like all of you, I could swing the 410 x 2 price given the feeling that it was really the superior choice. Actually, all these set-ups are in the overkill category for my sound needs, but I like the knowledge that I can control things if I want to from a volume standpoint.

Anyway, sorry for rambling. Probably good for me just to get this out there. Any ideas welcomed.
 
#3,664
Bassin' 'Round said:
O.K., thought I had it figured out, but after thinkin' 'bout it just a bit more, just can't decide which way to go.

Play (mostly) mid 60's - mid 80's rock/pop/some blues, funk, & disco. Not really too much that doesn't get touched on a little at least. Use an active jazz w/EMG 35 CS pups & Aggie obp-3, T I flats, & a 300 watt tube amp.

Was plannin' on a 410 & 1212 (from somewhere in this thread, a Jorg-recommended pairing which sounds great & makes perfect sense). $1918+ shipping.

Then started thinking 1212 x 2. The 1212's apparently put out some serious sound in their own right (giving most "normal" 410's a run for their $, if not outdoing them) & are pretty punchy to boot (when compared w/most other 12's). So, 2 of them together seems like a great rig. $1638 + shipping.

Then 410 x 2. As loud & punchy as the 1212's are, the 410's are louder & punchier, while still churning out some lows. Man, another seemingly great rig. $2198 + shipping.

Then 310212 (no, not x 2, although it flashed across my mind, lol). Very likely, in my opinion, the best single cab power/quality/price/value ratio made by anyone, period. But, even though 75 lbs is a real light for something like what it is, it's still 75 lbs. Much less portable than the 2 cab combos, but at the same time, just a single trip. (Guess the 1212 x 2 would be a single trip, too, come to think of it.) $1390 + shipping.

So, there you have it. I know I can't go wrong with any of these. Although $ is $ & I'd prefer to pay less than more, like all of you, I could swing the 410 x 2 price given the feeling that it was really the superior choice. Actually, all these set-ups is in the overkill category for my sound needs, but I like the knowledge that I can control things if I want to from a volume standpoint.

Anyway, sorry for rambling. Probably good for me just to get this out there. Any ideas welcomed.
Click to expand...

Until the lights start shipping in volume, none of us can provide a lot of input. I can share my logic with you on my 21012 Light order. I currently use a 1210 and 1212. I prefer the sound of the 1210... a little more mid punch and definition. However, the low end on the 1212 is fuller and deeper. So.... my logic (after talking with Jorg) was that the larger box would provide deeper lows than even the 1212, due to the larger internal volume of the cab, and the front mounted 10's would actually provide even more punch than the 1210, with the 10 in the baffle. Also, at 53 pounds and about the size of an Epi310UL.... it should be the best size/weight/volume ratio cab out there.

Also, I can't imagine a situation where a single large Schroeder wouldn't be enough volume... even the 1212 puts out enough sound for a very loud gig.

I'm pretty early on the delivery list for the 21012... I will post (as will others) with their impressions of the sound.
 
#3,665
As a second opinion on the GS112 vs 1212 commentary, since I was also there... :)

I'd say one 1212 is "percievably" louder than the GS', but also in a different way. The GS' sound a little deeper to me, whereas the 1212 sounded a bit thicker. What this means is, as we've heard so many times before, the "usable" volume coming from the 1212 is much higher due to that hump in its voicing. So we're of a similar opinion on that one... possibly with a qualification.

In other words, Jorg met his design goals, and in a loudish live situation, I'd rather have one 1212 than a pair of GS112s. However, in a studio or more subtle live setting, such as jazz, while I'd be very happy with a 1212, I think I'd prefer the GS' tone, given a choice between them at the time.

I should also note that the GS112 is not one of my least favorite 112's, so we differ there. :)
The reasons why belong in a different thread tho. :)
 
#3,666
SMASH said:
I've compared two GS112, which is what I replaced with my 1212, several times in this thread including putting links to same within the past few days. A Search of this thread on "GS112" will net you the relevant posts.

Due to that, I wasn't even going to respond but have to correct this assertion about the volume.

Two GS112 are at least as loud as a 1212. Let's not get carried away guys, especially about things we haven't even heard? Far too much of that on TalkBass as it is, and hype helps no one.
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I sure didn't hear that in my brief direct comparison and also with my experience with two GS112's in gigging situations versus a single 1212. A single 1212 seems much louder in the sense that it will not fart out even in very loud playing situations using aggressive technique (like slapping on the E string). Also, due to efficiency, it seems driven much harder with moderate wattage (500 watts or so) than the two GS112's.

However, I guess the point here is, if someone who owns two AG112's is considering a single 1212... they will not be disappointed volume wise. That being said, there are TOTALLY different sounding cabs, and the voicing of the 1212 might have a lot to do with the perceived volume difference that I've heard.
 
#3,667
SMASH said:
You guys did compare a 1212 vs *two* GS112?

My apologies then, I read it as there having only been one at your GTG but it seems you're rerferring to some other (gigging) situation.

I didn't perceive a material difference, and if so IMO it was in favour of the two GS112. For my comparisions, I spent a fair bit of time A/B-ing them in a couple different rooms (though not in a mix as "cutting volume" wasn't my interest) to decide which rig I'd keep. I went 1212 obviously.
Click to expand...

It was two, believe it or not (Vic has two NL210's and two GS112's... go figure!). However, we did spend more time with the two NL-210 versus 1212 comparison... it was amazing how well the 1212 held up to that comparison... although we might not have had enough wattage going into the NL210 stack to really open them up (we were using a TF550). The NL's sound GREAT by the way... very warm and clear, and a very sweet treble versus the older EA cabs.

It's hard to get a handle on volume in a small room (which we were in). However, I have 'bottomed out' a two GS112 stack on gigs, and have yet to come close to doing that with the 1212.

That being said, two GS112's is a great small gigging rig also... more flavors of good.
 
#3,668
Yeah, between Ken and I, we've amassed a pretty strong real life experience level with these cabs one way or another.

I should also mention I agree with Ken's assessment regarding power handling. I'd be pretty confident powering the Schroeder at higher levels than the GS', but that said, I've had my GS' up loud enough to serve live outdoor gigs and not had a problem, even with a pretty loud drummer, so they seem to be able to do "enough" anyway.

And yeah, it was a "fair" comparison. A 4ohm 212 Aggie rig vs a 4ohm 212 Schroeder rig.

EDIT: On a side note, those NL's marry up GREAT with the rich tone from the TFB, but that's in another thread. :)
 
#3,669
I've only compared the aggie gs212 with the 1212R, but I found the same general results as above. In the studio setting, the gs212 had deeper lows and a more transparent tone. The upper mids are a bit more punchy than the 1212. But live the 1212 shines, the wall of thick but punchy sound produced is much better in a live mix IMO. The volume of the 1212 was louder in both situations with the same input/output specs.

The combination of the two cabs was really nice, they really compliment the other well. I will say I only used the combination a couple times so my comments are based on that.
 
#3,670
I should also mention that, I'm generally not too slanted one way or another... I currently have the aggies, but based on what I heard from the 1212, I'll very likely be getting a 21012 Lite as soon as I can afford it... or at least one Shroeder cab of some kind.
 
#3,674
Guiseppe said:
Me too. I've got a 410L on the way to sit on top of my 21012...:eek:
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I'll also be very interested in your review of your 410 light-I have a old model Schro 410 that I just love :D and it blows the doors off the hinges every place I go -have you ever played the old 410s to compare it with?...you should have a fantastic rig ...eagerly awaiting...:)
 
#3,678
Opinions please!

Would a 1212L be about as loud/present as an Eden 410T? Am I correct to assume that the 1212 R (or maybe even the 1212Light) would be about as loud as an Eden 410T? (That's sufficient volume for my needs now.)

My F-1X/PLX1602/Schroeder 410R setup is just sooooo powerful, it's probably overkill for my needs and back. So I'm thinking of selling my 410 Regular and replacing it with a 1212 Light. For example, on one gig we had 2 drummers, 3 guitars, and a keyboard, all of which were mic'd. I wasn't going through the PA, and the sound man told ME to turn down. Man, what a cab! I just don't need all that volume now.

The Schroeder 410R is a LOT louder than the Eden 410T that I played for years. I know the 1212 would be pushing less air and it maybe wouldn't have the boom of a 410, but the coverage would still be there with 1212, right?

Would the PLX1602 be just too much power for the 1212L? I've got an SWR SM400 also, but would it be enough juice for the 1212L? Although I'd hate to give up my F-1X pre, and I love the headroom of the 1602..... I guess the common sense thing to do would be to turn the 1602 down, huh? But what fun is that? ;-)

Thank you all!!
 
#3,679
You might hear from some folks here that twice the power rating is just about enough. In any case, it seems to be the case from those who own that (at least so far with the regs) that ya can't seem to fart out the 1212. I've got a 1212L coming, and I can't wait to throw my 2402 at it. Bridged at ~1500 watts should be just enough...
 
#3,680
coyoteboy said:
You might hear from some folks here that twice the power rating is just about enough. In any case, it seems to be the case from those who own that (at least so far with the regs) that ya can't seem to fart out the 1212. I've got a 1212L coming, and I can't wait to throw my 2402 at it. Bridged at ~1500 watts should be just enough...
Click to expand...

Be careful the kite series 12s didn't like tons of juice when they were in my 310212L. You may want to go with a standard 1212, for the extra power handling. I have one of those too, and it's already so small & lite, I couldn't see the neo drivers making that big of a difference. YMMV
 
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