Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)

[uglybassplayer]

Even though the Schroeders have certain optical similarities with the Tech design , THAT'S WHERE IT ALREADY ENDS. Size, components and other issues differ tremendously. There are certain limits when it comes to cabinet designs, that's why front fired cabinets are so very common and popular.

Amen to that! Besides, I personally don't care about the technical side of the design, I care how first how it sounds relative to my situation and needs, second how gig worthy it is, and third how easy it is to transport. It seems the Jorg's cabinets are capable of fulfilling all those needs and at a more than reasonable price too.

So I ask, what's there to complain about?

- Frank.

 

[Scooperman]

I'm not sure about 4x10 cabs, but Traynor had the first 8x10 out there. And the first 300+ watt bass amp. What does that say about Ampeg? Nothing, I think.

Traynor also had the first tiltback speaker cab. Plenty of "clones" of that design. Traynor had the first guitar head with active EQ .. and plenty of firsts beyond that, mostly in PA systems. Just sayin'.

If only they'd also pioneered this design we're discussing, the cab would be plentiful and almost free on the used market ! Oh well.

I stand corrected - Ampeg wasn't the first. Which only goes to prove my point even more: except to satisfy my curiosity, I don't really care who was the first to use a sealed cabinet with multiple 10's any more than than I care who was the first to build a (semi?) folded horn with a 12" and a 10" speaker, That kind of information is only important to historians and patent lawyers.

Bottom line for me: Jorg has never misrepresented himself to me or to anybody else on this thread that I know of with the only exception being KenToby and he seems to be objecting to Jorg's use of the word "innovate".

There are degrees of innovation and I don't think most designs spring competlely fully formed out the designer's mind, like Athena out of the skull of Zeus. Jorg may very well have shared some of the same influences as the Tech guys. So what? Should he post a list of influences on his web site? How broad should that list be? Should he include the first person use a folded horn? How about the first person to use a 12" speaker?

Unless Jorg literally slapped his logo on a Tech cab, then whether the Schroeder design is innovative or not is merely an opinion.

And frankly, since he has never heard or seen Jorg's cab in person, I question very much the knowledge that informs KenToby's opinion.

 

[James Hart]

my 1212 just arrived



ohhh yeah

w00t!

(too bad I'm getting dragged out to a b'day/halloween thing in about 15 minutes)

 

[CrackBass]

everybody has been building on past designs in guitar/bass amp field since they invented the things. everyone just tries to put their own small spin on their stuff to suit a slightly different need or segment of players. jorg is a totally profesional guy. he didn't invent the bass cab, but he did make some that fit some people's needs better than anything else. i am definately one of those people. my 21012 kicks everything else i have played through right in the butt. that's just me though. jorg will be the first to tell you that he doesn't build the holy grail of bass cabs (i would dissagree). he does however build a quallity cab for a reasonable price that suits certain players. i am a carpenter by trade and i'm sure i could build a cab as good as his if! i was willing to spend the time and money building cab after cab with different combinations of drivers. you have to start somewhere and do the math. you won't get it right the first time(or the second or third.....) we are seeing the fruit of probaby years of experimentation. people can say he just copied tech's design but with different drivers comes different thiele parameters so you have to go back to the drawing board for airspace and porting so it's a totally different animal. jorgs cabinets are a godsend to me. i have a standalone cab that can take whatever i can throw at it, deliver the sound i want, and weighs a measly 74 pounds. it took about 50 pounds off my rigs total weight and sounds worlds better. call schroeder cabinets and you'll get jorg himself on the phone. wow.

btw james let me know about the 212 cause i might have to get one (or a 1012 i just don't know)

on another note i could probably reverse engineer my 21012 and build a duplicate. THAT would be copyright infringment. (i know you read this forum, jorg, it's just an example i would never do that, besides it wouldn't have that sweet tobacco smell, what is that?)

 

[bassjam]

hey jorg
just a quick post to let you know im still in the ranks that support your company,product and customer service 100%.

i have spoken to jorg countless times(he even came by my house when he was in texas for the dfw get together a while back to deliver my 1212 personally)he is a hard working stand up guy and i have never once heard of him take full credit for this cabinet design.he has a genuine passion for his product and the bass and fellow bassplayers.i know without a doubt if i ever have a problem with my schroeders jorg will make it right.by the way i also love the way they sound-new design,old design,whatever.

brian b.-you are exactly right.ive never heard anyone gripe that almost every major came out with a front loaded 410 design,or a 112,or a 210,etc.

why would anyone have such a hang up with the schroeders??jorg doesent owe it to anyone to explain how or why he decided to go with the design he did.he simply offered a product to bassplayers.if you like them buy one.if you prefer something else,buy something else.

all the best to you jorg-tell your lovely wife hello for me.

 

[Nick man]

One major issue I heard about the Tech Soundsystems cabs is that they were really quiet.

'nuff said.

 

[James Hart]

Well, I got home with enough caffine in me to get the 1212 unpacked and set up. Man does the stack *look* tough.

I spent a bit checking out my new 1212 vs my first generation 1210 last night... a couple of nice improvements, just cosmetic details with labeling and knobs.

Today I A/Bed some.... they are very similarly voiced. with the new 1212 voiced a little deeper and darker... but sound killer. I tried the 2 together and OMG! I'll hold off with anything more on that till I can open it up with the band. Livingroom stomps are very limiting. I want to walk it all outside, but the neighbors are all out and trick or treating (doing noon till 5 pm this year). I have to take the day off tomorrow to get some plumbing work done at my tenants house I'll bring it all outside while the neighbors are all working

Pictures of the stack are coming.... I asked my sis-in-law if I can borrow her good digital camera!

and just 'cause after the loss of a family member in my singers family, my band if gearing back up on thursday here are a few tracks of the Schroeder 1210 with Yamaha pre/crown power and Benavente Fretless 6 at my drummers audition [EDIT] back at the end of August[/EDIT]... just an sm57 pointed at the garage door plugged into my soundcard.

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Thanks Jorg!

 

[PhatBasstard]

One major issue I heard about the Tech 21 cabs is that they were really quiet.

'nuff said.

Nuff said? Hardly.
Unless I missed a post, you're misstakenly talking about Tech Soundsystems, not Tech 21 (different company) .

Also, I've owned 2 of their 2x12 cabs (CT2000, the equivalent of a Schroeder 1212).
They are hardly quiet. The reason I (regrettably) sold one is one cab is enough for all but the loudest of gigs. I've played 800 person banquet rooms, with an 11 piece band , with just the one cab and it wasn't even taxed. Every band I play with is amazed at what this cab puts out.

I am totally sold on this design concept and am probably going to get a Schroeder in the near future.

PS. Regarding the Schroeder vs. Tech issue (which I was one of the original persons that brought it up way back when): Whether or not the Schroeder has better drivers, even if they are the same the Schroeder 1212 would probably sound a little deeper as the cabs dimensions are a little larger than the Tech cab.

 

[slinkp]

After my taste-test of Scooperman's cabinets I'm about ready to spring for a Schroeder "little box". I'm kinda curious though, whether the 1212 might suit me better. I gather the 1212 has "more lows" than a 1210. But does that mean more low-mids or more way-deep-lows? Or both?

Also, does the 1212 feel nice and tight, like I know the 1210 does?

I found with the 1210 that I liked to add a touch of bass boost and a touch of mid-cut, if that helps explain what I'm after. It seemed a little smoother to me that way. So I'm kinda hoping that the 1212 would get me something like that when set flat.

While we're at it, how does the 1010 compare?

-PW

 

[Nick man]

Nuff said? Hardly.
Unless I missed a post, you're misstakenly talking about Tech Soundsystems, not Tech 21 (different company) .

Also, I've owned 2 of their 2x12 cabs (CT2000, the equivalent of a Schroeder 1212).
They are hardly quiet. The reason I (regrettably) sold one is one cab is enough for all but the loudest of gigs. I've played 800 person banquet rooms, with an 11 piece band , with just the one cab and it wasn't even taxed. Every band I play with is amazed at what this cab puts out.

I am totally sold on this design concept and am probably going to get a Schroeder in the near future.

PS. Regarding the Schroeder vs. Tech issue (which I was one of the original persons that brought it up way back when): Whether or not the Schroeder has better drivers, even if they are the same the Schroeder 1212 would probably sound a little deeper as the cabs dimensions are a little larger than the Tech cab.

My mistake. I fixed it. I know what I meant to type, but I just screwed it up.

I say "'nuff said." because if those were quiet cabs then the Schroedders are definetly not the same. I could be wrong about them being quiet, but thats what Ive heard.

 

[James Hart]

Also, does the 1212 feel nice and tight, like I know the 1210 does?

Yes... you can tell they are closely related

I found with the 1210 that I liked to add a touch of bass boost and a touch of mid-cut, if that helps explain what I'm after. It seemed a little smoother to me that way. So I'm kinda hoping that the 1212 would get me something like that when set flat.

In my limited time with the pair... little rounder, little darker with much of the same. The 1212 can be felt slightly more in the gut... but it's a *little* bit slicker about it.

Maybe...

I'll post more after rehearsal on thursday night

 

[uglybassplayer]

So, those of you who have both a 1210 AND a 1212 (Like James, and I believe Scooperman IIR)...

If you could only keep one or the other , which would it be... And why?

- Frank.

 

[Scooperman]

So, those of you who have both a 1210 AND a 1212 (Like James, and I believe Scooperman IIR)...

If you could only keep one or the other , which would it be... And why?

- Frank.

Actually I only have the 1210, but I wouldn't mind having a 1212 as well, alothough I suspect that the 1210 might be slightly punchier.

I'm trying to go at least a few months without buying any more bass gear, so in the event that I play a gig where the 1210 ain't enough (it could happen, but it hasn't yet), then I guess I'll just have to combine it with my Acme LowB2.

Man, I got it rough!

 

[Big String]

I have tried almost all the Schroeder line except the 210 and 101010. I did have the 1210 and 1212 at the same time and although I didn't test the 1212 live the two cabs to me were obviously different and rightly so or why even offer them. The 1212 was quite a bit darker and had more lows but not the cut and higher mids I prefer (for cutting purposes). My preferred cabs tone-wise are the Bergantino mini stack and the 1210 came the closest to that sound. Although I found the two single 112's to be louder (not by much) the 1210 being noticably more midranged does a good job of cutting the mix pretty much all the time. I intially found the 1210 to be too much midrange but later found out that it fits very nicely into the mix and doesn't bother me as when comparing to my mini stack when the Bergs just sound lots better to me. I still have to gig more with the 1210 to make sure it's the cutting tool I need for certain 'doomed rooms' were practically none of my bass can be heard. The 1210 and 1212 together were very very loud and a good combination (enough to get a complaint call to the Police) I think two 1210 cabs may be good too but I have not tried that and may sometime for loud outside gigs next season. I just may couple my Berg Mini's with the 1210 and my super rig the Crest CA9 and Demeter 201S. For now I think the 1210 is the tool I need for the scarey rooms from Hell. One other TB'r here tried his 1210 with a single Berg HT112 and said they fit nicely together.

 

[jerry]

One other TB'r here tried his 1210 with a single Berg HT112 and said they fit nicely together.

That might be me Saturday & Sunday I did Halloween gigs, and yesterday a outside Rock to Vote gig........I used a Demeter 201/QSCPLX into a 1210 with a Bergie HT112 on top, sounded great!! I've done a few outside gigs with that set up, and have been very impressed! I've never had a small rig sound that good outside Jim Bergantino & Jorg are my heros

 

[John D Harris]

That might be me Saturday & Sunday I did Halloween gigs, and yesterday a outside Rock to Vote gig........I used a Demeter 201/QSCPLX into a 1210 with a Bergie HT112 on top, sounded great!! I've done a few outside gigs with that set up, and have been very impressed! I've never had a small rig sound that good outside Jim Bergantino & Jorg are my heros

I'd like to hear that.

R U running a cab off each channel of the PLX and adjusting individual levels or two off one side?

 

[jerry]

I run a cabinet from each side of the QSC, they are a little different in power and efficiency ratings.

 

[the dude]

Frank -

I played the 1212 and 1210 and decided to get the 1210.

Both cabs are in the same general sonic family. The 1212 was deeper and a bit louder than the 1210 - and without the more present upper mids of the 1210.

I'm a fan of the SVT sound, and the 1210 was closer (not the same, just closer) to that sound than the 1212. Based on that I decided to get the 1210.

 

[uglybassplayer]

Thanks Dude (and everyone else who responded). Having ordered my 1210 sight unseen (or unheard I should say), I was just curious about just how different the 1212 sounded. I remember Brian Barret stating at some point that the 1210 was a more "all around" cabinet where the 1212 acted more like a subwoofer. I'm also rather fond of the SVT sound, so I'm feeling reassured that I made the right decision. I'm fairly sure though that if I decided on a second cabinet to pair with my 1210 that I'd go for a 1212.

- Frank.

 

[Big String]

Did some testing in my test-room last night for a couple hours. In that setting I actually prefer the 1210 on it's side with the 10" driver pointed up, 12" driver on the bottom. Some lose of the low coupling thing is apparent but it cleared up some of the prominent bark/grunt to my liking. I just added some bass knob and a little more volume and it was very pleasing. Still had the Schroeder cutting tone too. After several times of tipping up and back shows that there is some versatility with this cab just by changing the position. It was also much easier to hear since the 10" was higher and angled at my ears which was one of my first attractions to this design. Now I will see how that method works on the gig next weekend.