@lo-freq,
"Philpernickle" it is!
LMFAO!
~S~
PS: Who knows, tommorrow it might be "Jorgpernickle"...
"Philpernickle" it is!
LMFAO!
~S~
PS: Who knows, tommorrow it might be "Jorgpernickle"...
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Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)
- Thread starter SMASH
- Start date
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I just bought a 1210 with casters from Jorg. Last week I bought a Stewart World 1.2 power amp from him and Demeter VTB201 pre from somebody else. I already own an Acme Low B2 and an EA iamp800 combo, as well as an EA VL110 and a GK 400RB and a QSC PLX1602. When the 1210 gets here I'll have a lot of different speaker/amp combinations to try out. I promise to post my findings here.
I'll try to curb my enthusiasm until then...
I'll try to curb my enthusiasm until then...
Scooperman....ahhhh, a current Acme owner and soon to be Schroeder owner...now we're getting somewhere!
Speddling...thanks for the comments; please keep 'em coming!
Speddling...thanks for the comments; please keep 'em coming!
My current band did a private outdoors party tonight.
I usually set my HT322 on a metal milk crate that raises it apprx. 12" off the stage, so I did the same with the 410 to try to keep comparisons as even as possible.
These are my initial impressions and I feel that to really get to familiar with the complete sound of a piece of equipment takes awhile. Anyway, here's my first take on the Schro410.
As I said after my first exposure to the 410, the major differences between it and my HT322 are in efficiency and in the low end.
I set my SR5, Dem 201S, and PLX1602 the same as I've been setting them where we practice (a 14' X 16' concrete walled room).
The rythym guitarist immediately started letting me know I was too freakin' loud.
He was standing about 15' to 20' from the cab.
My drummer walked around way out in the audience while I was getting a feel for the sound and he said it was very loud out there and it was totally blowing away what my HT322 could do (just reporting what he said).
I cut the volume on the Dem pre and cut the bass just a tiny bit from the center detent on my SR5.
The lows and lower mids have a somewhat aggressive edge to it, but still clearer in the very lowest 10 half-steps of the BEADG range than the HT322 (at least at the same general volume level -- loud -- I've had the 322 for a year, so I'm pretty familiar with its general characteristics).
The 410 sounded quicker and more distinct in the low end.
The notes seemed to hit you harder in the chest.
I could hear myself better and could more easily distinguish the different notes in the lower frequencies.
Another caveat -- I haven't really tweaked the match-up between my bass, the 201S, and the 410. So take that into consideration when you read the following. The right tweaking might change my judgements, so take it with a few extra grains of salt.
I so far feel that the 322 has a somewhat more naturally musical midrange and treble than the Schro410.
[Someone else used the term OPEN to describe the HT322's midrange and treble; I agree. The HT322 is more open in that frequency range than anything else I've heard -- I haven't heard the Accugrooves yet.]
My style of playing does not emphasize this type of stuff and I don't think the differences are big, so at this point I'm pretty well sold on the Schroeder cab.
The HT322 has good projection out 10' and farther from the cab, indoors or outdoors.
Since this was outside, the lack of rear boundaries may have affected the percieved level closer up to the 410, but unless I kneeled down, it seemed to get louder the farther away from the cab I got. I ended up standing about 15' from the cab most of the time and could hear really well.
All my band mates were VERY impressed with the tone and output of the Schroeder cab.
I am too.
Brian B, thanks again for the hook-up and we need to talk.
I usually set my HT322 on a metal milk crate that raises it apprx. 12" off the stage, so I did the same with the 410 to try to keep comparisons as even as possible.
These are my initial impressions and I feel that to really get to familiar with the complete sound of a piece of equipment takes awhile. Anyway, here's my first take on the Schro410.
As I said after my first exposure to the 410, the major differences between it and my HT322 are in efficiency and in the low end.
I set my SR5, Dem 201S, and PLX1602 the same as I've been setting them where we practice (a 14' X 16' concrete walled room).
The rythym guitarist immediately started letting me know I was too freakin' loud.
He was standing about 15' to 20' from the cab.
My drummer walked around way out in the audience while I was getting a feel for the sound and he said it was very loud out there and it was totally blowing away what my HT322 could do (just reporting what he said).
I cut the volume on the Dem pre and cut the bass just a tiny bit from the center detent on my SR5.
The lows and lower mids have a somewhat aggressive edge to it, but still clearer in the very lowest 10 half-steps of the BEADG range than the HT322 (at least at the same general volume level -- loud -- I've had the 322 for a year, so I'm pretty familiar with its general characteristics).
The 410 sounded quicker and more distinct in the low end.
The notes seemed to hit you harder in the chest.
I could hear myself better and could more easily distinguish the different notes in the lower frequencies.
Another caveat -- I haven't really tweaked the match-up between my bass, the 201S, and the 410. So take that into consideration when you read the following. The right tweaking might change my judgements, so take it with a few extra grains of salt.
I so far feel that the 322 has a somewhat more naturally musical midrange and treble than the Schro410.
[Someone else used the term OPEN to describe the HT322's midrange and treble; I agree. The HT322 is more open in that frequency range than anything else I've heard -- I haven't heard the Accugrooves yet.]
My style of playing does not emphasize this type of stuff and I don't think the differences are big, so at this point I'm pretty well sold on the Schroeder cab.
The HT322 has good projection out 10' and farther from the cab, indoors or outdoors.
Since this was outside, the lack of rear boundaries may have affected the percieved level closer up to the 410, but unless I kneeled down, it seemed to get louder the farther away from the cab I got. I ended up standing about 15' from the cab most of the time and could hear really well.
All my band mates were VERY impressed with the tone and output of the Schroeder cab.
I am too.Brian B, thanks again for the hook-up and we need to talk.
After reading all the posts (especially about how/where the ports are) I can say that these cabs are direct derivitives of the old Tech Soundsystems, right down to the ports. The major difference is the design is reversed (like a Tech upside down).
That being said, I can also vouch for the efficiency of the design.
I've been using my Tech cab (2x12) for a couple years now and it's great.
I had 2 but realized 1 covered almost every gig.
The Schroeder cabs may sound a little better as his "small box" 2x12, although the same depth as the Tech, is 1.5" wider and 2" taller.
I'm very interested in checking them out.
The first pic is a Tech 2x12 (you can't see the side/angled 2nd 12).
The second is my current cab with a different (SWR/Eden style) high end driver in which you can see the second 12 a little better.
Not trying to stir up trouble. Just want to give credit where it's due.
PS. $599 shipped for the "small box" cabs is a fantastic price!
Even though they were blown out for about $300 plus shipping towards the end,
the original price on the Tech 2x12 cabs was about $900 + shipping.
That being said, I can also vouch for the efficiency of the design.
I've been using my Tech cab (2x12) for a couple years now and it's great.
I had 2 but realized 1 covered almost every gig.
The Schroeder cabs may sound a little better as his "small box" 2x12, although the same depth as the Tech, is 1.5" wider and 2" taller.
I'm very interested in checking them out.
The first pic is a Tech 2x12 (you can't see the side/angled 2nd 12).
The second is my current cab with a different (SWR/Eden style) high end driver in which you can see the second 12 a little better.
Not trying to stir up trouble. Just want to give credit where it's due.
PS. $599 shipped for the "small box" cabs is a fantastic price!
Even though they were blown out for about $300 plus shipping towards the end,
the original price on the Tech 2x12 cabs was about $900 + shipping.
PhatBasstard said:
Towards the end? Have Tech Soundsystems gone out of business? Please say no.
Not sure. I was told the reason these cabs were "blown-out" was because they were coming out with new Neodymium Speaker models that were not only lighter, but had a slightly redesigned look. Two years later I still haven't seen one.Petebass said:
JSCHRO7376
Commercial User
- Feb 23, 2004
- 1,090
- 32
- 74
- Disclosures
- Owner, Schroeder Cabinets
The folded horn idea has been around for over 30 years in various styles, sizes and configurations. Even Acoustic offered folded horn bass cabs. I used a couple of those a long, long time ago. Drawback: to bulky, can be boomey, lacking mids and highs. Thats why front fired cabinets became more popular due to the cleaner and faster response, more cost efficient to produce, and therefore 95% of all cabinet manufacturers offer pretty identical front fired styles and sizes; naturally, different components, crossovers, tuning, etc.
Folded horn styled cabinets are more time consuming to manufacture, which increases production cost, and thats why the number of companies who offer such items is naturally smaller.
AI, Mesa Boogies new combo, and a couple other companies are now trying this route again to offer an alternative, the Schroeders are just a part of this minority. Similarities in design, compactness cannot therefore be avoided, whether it comes to the front fired or side fired designs, etc., etc. I decided on this design after having built and tested numerous proto types of different styles, tunings and components. The result is in my opinion efficiency, compact, power and sound. Again, due to the limited options, similarities cannot be avoided, unless someone develops an oval design, pyramid, triangle, octagon ???
I am very happy and honored that some of my fellow bassists who played the Schroeders are putting them in the same category as the high end cabinets. Please keep in mind that the Schroeders will not work for everyone, and this was not my intention. But I think it is great that we bassists have more alternatives to chose from than just 10 years ago. Whatever brand works for you, be happy
.
Thanks everyone
Sincerely,
Jorg
Folded horn styled cabinets are more time consuming to manufacture, which increases production cost, and thats why the number of companies who offer such items is naturally smaller.
AI, Mesa Boogies new combo, and a couple other companies are now trying this route again to offer an alternative, the Schroeders are just a part of this minority. Similarities in design, compactness cannot therefore be avoided, whether it comes to the front fired or side fired designs, etc., etc. I decided on this design after having built and tested numerous proto types of different styles, tunings and components. The result is in my opinion efficiency, compact, power and sound. Again, due to the limited options, similarities cannot be avoided, unless someone develops an oval design, pyramid, triangle, octagon ???
I am very happy and honored that some of my fellow bassists who played the Schroeders are putting them in the same category as the high end cabinets. Please keep in mind that the Schroeders will not work for everyone, and this was not my intention. But I think it is great that we bassists have more alternatives to chose from than just 10 years ago. Whatever brand works for you, be happy
.Thanks everyone
Sincerely,
Jorg
So I was on the right track when I was guessing your design criteria.
Are there any plans for Neodymium magnets in the future?
Are there any plans for Neodymium magnets in the future?
Wow. Looks like they've totally abandoned the design configuration we've been discussing here.geshel said:
JSCHRO7376
Commercial User
- Feb 23, 2004
- 1,090
- 32
- 74
- Disclosures
- Owner, Schroeder Cabinets
Hey Jorg,
RE: the 1210 cab.
On your site, in the "small box" section, you make a statement "the lows of a 12-the punch of a 10".
With that being the case, wouldn't it make more sense to have the (more) low end producing speaker (12") be the folded one, allowing the low end more dispersion, with the punchier (10") being the front loaded speaker so the projection is more direct rather than dispersed?
I'm no audio expert, but having used a plethora of different speaker cabs through the decades (folded, front firing, rear firing/reflex, sealed, ported, etc.) this just seemed more obvious to me.
Did you, at any point, try it this way?
RE: the 1210 cab.
On your site, in the "small box" section, you make a statement "the lows of a 12-the punch of a 10".
With that being the case, wouldn't it make more sense to have the (more) low end producing speaker (12") be the folded one, allowing the low end more dispersion, with the punchier (10") being the front loaded speaker so the projection is more direct rather than dispersed?
I'm no audio expert, but having used a plethora of different speaker cabs through the decades (folded, front firing, rear firing/reflex, sealed, ported, etc.) this just seemed more obvious to me.
Did you, at any point, try it this way?
JSCHRO7376
Commercial User
- Feb 23, 2004
- 1,090
- 32
- 74
- Disclosures
- Owner, Schroeder Cabinets
PhatBasstard said:
We tried any possible configuration and, believe me, it sounds better that way. If you have any other questions feel free to email me: [email protected]
Sincerely,
Jorg
JSCHRO7376 said:
In my past experience with 10's and 12's used for Car audio, 10" speakers have a 'faster' resonse to low end transient peaks and are therefore a bit tighter sounding. They are used with exceptional results where very 'musical' bass is wanted as opposed to a more 'boomy' sound. Don't know if these rules apply to Jorg's cabinets, but it's one of the basic conventions used heavily in car stereo bass cabinet design. -Gary
Just wanted to post that I have ordered (money is in the USPS system as I write this) a 1210 from Jorg. I spoke with him on the phone and have exchanged emails with him. Jorg is great to deal with and a class guy all the way. You can be sure he'll treat you with respect and honesty.
Anyway, once I get the cab I'll post MHO on the results I find.
Anyway, once I get the cab I'll post MHO on the results I find.
Read thru this thread today , i am in a volume battle situation at the moment w/my band. Just need a bit more kick and Schroeder cabs sound promising. Currently i use a Eden 2x10 @ 8 ohms, with a WT550
it's rated at
500 watt's @ 4 ohm
300 watt's @ 8 ohms
According to this chart (thanks Joe Atlanta )
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I saw earliery a Schroeder 2x10 cab specs mentioned in this thread is rated at 102db
+2 DB for running @ 4 Ohms, and using the full 500 watt's for my head
While Eden's website for their 2x10 XLT
103DB SPL @ 1w 1m
running at 300 watt's as it's a 8 ohm cab
Hmm, Would i be correct in that the volume difference would pretty much be the same? Please correct me if i am wrong as i am seriously considering the schroeders as im G.A.S n for it bad right now
it's rated at
500 watt's @ 4 ohm
300 watt's @ 8 ohms
According to this chart (thanks Joe Atlanta )
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I saw earliery a Schroeder 2x10 cab specs mentioned in this thread is rated at 102db
+2 DB for running @ 4 Ohms, and using the full 500 watt's for my head
While Eden's website for their 2x10 XLT
103DB SPL @ 1w 1m
running at 300 watt's as it's a 8 ohm cab
Hmm, Would i be correct in that the volume difference would pretty much be the same? Please correct me if i am wrong as i am seriously considering the schroeders as im G.A.S n for it bad right now
Sensitivity is only part of the picture. My Acme Low B2 is capable of being much louder than the equivalent Eden cab, but does not measure as being nearly as sensitive. Anyway, specs are of only a certain amount of usefullness, since they're not measuring how "full" something sounds or how well a particular source "cuts through" a mix, etc. A lot of that is psychoacoustics. Ultimately, nobody (except maybe an audiologist) cares about what the SPL is nearly as much as they care about the percieved vloume. YMMV and all that.
Bottom line: ya gotta judge with your ears. Since there's no Schroeder dealer in New York, I ordered a 1210 to hear it for myself. If Mohammed can't come to the mountain...
Bottom line: ya gotta judge with your ears. Since there's no Schroeder dealer in New York, I ordered a 1210 to hear it for myself. If Mohammed can't come to the mountain...
Scooperman said:
Can you explain that? At anything above 75Hz, I'd guess that the efficiency lead of the Eden is too much for the Acme to catch up to. The difference is at least 6dB, right? Can the Acme really handle 4x the power (as a pure, continuous sine wave)?
I've had both Eden & Acme cabs...the Eden's dB's KILL its competitior in spades, regardless of power supply/demand...
~S~
~S~
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