Pyramid will make custom length sets. I had one made for my D4 recently. Just got the bass set up with 'em, so not much playing time. I like them a bit better than the Gallis I had on before. They seem inbetween the Roto RS88 and the Galli in terms of tension.
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Show Us Your Rob Allen Basses Part IV
- Thread starter smperry
- Start date
YOu could try the Roto RS88EL or do what I did and get Pyramid to make you an XL set of their nylon tapes.
Sharing today's setup. The fretted mouse kills it with the little genzler combo. Loving the new lightweight amplification. Big outdoor beer garden, 1k loud drunk people and all I needed to bring was the 10" genzler combo and an upshot for onstage monitoring. Let the PA do the work.
I picked up a Henricksen "The Bud" (Invalid Link Removed) today. There is luckily a dealer nearby where I could try it. I've been using the Phil Jones Double Four for years now. It's worked out well and has powered many a gig, but there are times I wish it had a touch more headroom. I could get PJB's powered cab, but then I need to start schlepping more things.
So for awhile now I've been poking around to see what's out there. The Acoustic Image UpShot intrigued me, but I couldn' find one to play through and I'd still need to buy a small head for it (Clarus or something). At the end of the day speaker + head is about the same as the Bud.
It's always hard in a store to do a direct comparison but the D4 sounded good through both. I was A/Bing. The Bud isn't necessarily designed for bass. The Double Four is, and it has a bit more "boom"; you can feel it. Once I put the Bud on the floor, you could feel it so it wasn't as different as it was. The Double Four also sounds different depending on where you place it due to the radiator. The Bud has more clarity and is more balanced top to bottom. The Double Four is definitely more low and mid heavy which gives it a warm vibe, but that's not always the sound you want. We're talking degrees of subtlety here. I've been living with the sound of the Double Four for nearly 4ish years now, so I'm super familiar with its sound and what it can/can't do.
To be honest, the main reason I've been looking for something else is actually the D4: I've got discrete outputs for the mag and the piezo, each with their own controls. The Double Four only has one input and a hi/low switch. It's somewhat inconvenient to switch for a few songs and have to adjust settings. With the Bud, both can be plugged in and each can have its own sound. I can equalize the volume so both will have the same output, too. What's more interesting is I may play with blending the two to see what the sound can be. The difference between the mag and the piezo is much more pronounced with the Bud. I have to say running both into the Bud was really nice. The only thing I did was turn the volume all the way down on the D4 for one pickup and all the way up on the other. Easy, peasy.
If you're curious why I use one pickup versus another, there are just some tunes that need a little more "punch" (more modern big band, and some Latin tunes). The piezo is more than fine, but it's not the mag. This got driven home the few months I wasn't playing the D4 (and for more than the broken E string; it needed or or two things repaired such as my piezo volume) and I was playing either my regular P or the fretless P. It was why I got the two pickups in the first place: I wanted some tonal difference if I needed it.
I was looking into A/B switches to do all of it right and even out volume, etc., but that was starting to add up cost wise and is, again, more to schlep and deal with.
I'm going to use it at big band rehearsal tomorrow night with the D4. If the Bud works, it's a keeper and the Double Four will be sold. If not, I'll take the restock fee and return the Bud. I'm curious to see what the drummer and guitar player think. The guitar player especially likes the Double Four.
As an aside, I'm liking the Pyramid nylon tapewounds so far. They seem to really cut the difference between the RS88 and the Gallis both in terms of feel and sound. I used the D4 for the first time with the new strings in a different big band's rehearsal last Wednesday, so I'll know more after tomorrow since one outing is tough to judge.
So for awhile now I've been poking around to see what's out there. The Acoustic Image UpShot intrigued me, but I couldn' find one to play through and I'd still need to buy a small head for it (Clarus or something). At the end of the day speaker + head is about the same as the Bud.
It's always hard in a store to do a direct comparison but the D4 sounded good through both. I was A/Bing. The Bud isn't necessarily designed for bass. The Double Four is, and it has a bit more "boom"; you can feel it. Once I put the Bud on the floor, you could feel it so it wasn't as different as it was. The Double Four also sounds different depending on where you place it due to the radiator. The Bud has more clarity and is more balanced top to bottom. The Double Four is definitely more low and mid heavy which gives it a warm vibe, but that's not always the sound you want. We're talking degrees of subtlety here. I've been living with the sound of the Double Four for nearly 4ish years now, so I'm super familiar with its sound and what it can/can't do.
To be honest, the main reason I've been looking for something else is actually the D4: I've got discrete outputs for the mag and the piezo, each with their own controls. The Double Four only has one input and a hi/low switch. It's somewhat inconvenient to switch for a few songs and have to adjust settings. With the Bud, both can be plugged in and each can have its own sound. I can equalize the volume so both will have the same output, too. What's more interesting is I may play with blending the two to see what the sound can be. The difference between the mag and the piezo is much more pronounced with the Bud. I have to say running both into the Bud was really nice. The only thing I did was turn the volume all the way down on the D4 for one pickup and all the way up on the other. Easy, peasy.
If you're curious why I use one pickup versus another, there are just some tunes that need a little more "punch" (more modern big band, and some Latin tunes). The piezo is more than fine, but it's not the mag. This got driven home the few months I wasn't playing the D4 (and for more than the broken E string; it needed or or two things repaired such as my piezo volume) and I was playing either my regular P or the fretless P. It was why I got the two pickups in the first place: I wanted some tonal difference if I needed it.
I was looking into A/B switches to do all of it right and even out volume, etc., but that was starting to add up cost wise and is, again, more to schlep and deal with.
I'm going to use it at big band rehearsal tomorrow night with the D4. If the Bud works, it's a keeper and the Double Four will be sold. If not, I'll take the restock fee and return the Bud. I'm curious to see what the drummer and guitar player think. The guitar player especially likes the Double Four.
As an aside, I'm liking the Pyramid nylon tapewounds so far. They seem to really cut the difference between the RS88 and the Gallis both in terms of feel and sound. I used the D4 for the first time with the new strings in a different big band's rehearsal last Wednesday, so I'll know more after tomorrow since one outing is tough to judge.
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[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] has both as well as the non extended length Pyramids. So if you really want the LaBellas, you can get them there. That said ...
I hate LaBella strings. Always have - both in feel and sound. I'm a Roto guy. The RS88 was the mainstay of my fretless basses for a long time starting with the G&L L2000 I got in the early 90s. I experimented with the 760N set in the late 90s and they were on for less than a week. The RS88 was on both of my D4s. The Galli was the first non-RS88 in a long time. I felt the same about the Jamerson set (the 1954 ones). I love thick, heavy, mucho tension flats. The RS77LE set is my mainstay on the P. The 1954 set was the worst set of strings I ever played. The feel was terrible. Others will, I'm sure, say different.
The RS88 and 760 sets are both high tension, so feel wise they'll be more similar than different. I remember the 760 also being a bit stiff (again, similar to the RS88).
Sonically I don't remember what the 760N set sounded like, but I didn't like anything about them. They couldn't be gone fast enough.
The Galli nylon tapewounds were a warmer sound and lighter tension despite the same gauge. They took a bit of a left turn as they wore in. It was unpleasant. They were not a great match on the D4. They developed some weird overtones I can't describe but it made me sound like I was out of tune. That never happened on the RS88s.
Rob built and sent both D4s to me with the RS88EL set. Those two may be the only ones that didn't ship with the LaBella 760N set
And when I got the S4, he had the RS77 on it.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] has both as well as the non extended length Pyramids. So if you really want the LaBellas, you can get them there. That said ...
I hate LaBella strings. Always have - both in feel and sound. I'm a Roto guy. The RS88 was the mainstay of my fretless basses for a long time starting with the G&L L2000 I got in the early 90s. I experimented with the 760N set in the late 90s and they were on for less than a week. The RS88 was on both of my D4s. The Galli was the first non-RS88 in a long time. I felt the same about the Jamerson set (the 1954 ones). I love thick, heavy, mucho tension flats. The RS77LE set is my mainstay on the P. The 1954 set was the worst set of strings I ever played. The feel was terrible. Others will, I'm sure, say different.
The RS88 and 760 sets are both high tension, so feel wise they'll be more similar than different. I remember the 760 also being a bit stiff (again, similar to the RS88).
Sonically I don't remember what the 760N set sounded like, but I didn't like anything about them. They couldn't be gone fast enough.
The Galli nylon tapewounds were a warmer sound and lighter tension despite the same gauge. They took a bit of a left turn as they wore in. It was unpleasant. They were not a great match on the D4. They developed some weird overtones I can't describe but it made me sound like I was out of tune. That never happened on the RS88s.
Rob built and sent both D4s to me with the RS88EL set. Those two may be the only ones that didn't ship with the LaBella 760N set
thanks for the info...I've always been a Roto guy..think I'm going to try a set
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Post-rehearsal update
The Bud worked like a charm. I was 50/50 on if it would be better than the Double Four. In context of this big band, it absolutely was. Granted, I'm using the D4 with new/different strings, but it wasn't that. The inherent sound of the D4 was the same.
Using the Bud, I could hear myself much better than the Deep Four - and the Deep Four was never bad, especially considering I've been using it for years across numerous rehearsals and gigs. I could definitely feel things; it wasn't just putting out sound. The port on the bottom does put out good bass. I thought I'd miss more of the wooly/warm from the Double Four that I perceived when I A/Bed in the store. I didn't. There is a nice, but different, bloom as you get lower.
Probably the nicest bit was for arguably the first time, I could truly hear the difference between the mag and the piezo clearly. It's not as apparent through the Double Four and my '63 B-15N. I had both outputs plugged in (mag in Input 1, piezo in Input 2) and using the input gain on Input 1, had the mag output level matched to the piezo. I used the mag on one tune and it sounded great. It had that extra punch I wanted that the piezo just doesn't have. I didn't mix the two, but plan on experimenting with that in the future. This is definitely a much better than the whole mute the Double Four/unplug/replug/unmute/change volume and slight EQ process I was using before. Now it's just roll one knob down and the other up on the D4.
I had all EQ on the amp set to 12 o'clock - meaning I wasn't really using any EQ. It was just the amp (and any of its coloration) along with just the D4 itself.
I'll have a chance next week to use the Bud at a big band rehearsal with a different band, and I bet it will be more of the same. By no means is this an indictment of the Double Four. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. For the money, you're not going to find much better. But at nearly 2.5x the cost, I would expect the Bud to be better ... and so far, it seems to be. It's crazy how good, small, light, and loud a lot of amps or amp/speaker combos are these days even at affordable price points. Choice is a good thing!
The Bud worked like a charm. I was 50/50 on if it would be better than the Double Four. In context of this big band, it absolutely was. Granted, I'm using the D4 with new/different strings, but it wasn't that. The inherent sound of the D4 was the same.
Using the Bud, I could hear myself much better than the Deep Four - and the Deep Four was never bad, especially considering I've been using it for years across numerous rehearsals and gigs. I could definitely feel things; it wasn't just putting out sound. The port on the bottom does put out good bass. I thought I'd miss more of the wooly/warm from the Double Four that I perceived when I A/Bed in the store. I didn't. There is a nice, but different, bloom as you get lower.
Probably the nicest bit was for arguably the first time, I could truly hear the difference between the mag and the piezo clearly. It's not as apparent through the Double Four and my '63 B-15N. I had both outputs plugged in (mag in Input 1, piezo in Input 2) and using the input gain on Input 1, had the mag output level matched to the piezo. I used the mag on one tune and it sounded great. It had that extra punch I wanted that the piezo just doesn't have. I didn't mix the two, but plan on experimenting with that in the future. This is definitely a much better than the whole mute the Double Four/unplug/replug/unmute/change volume and slight EQ process I was using before. Now it's just roll one knob down and the other up on the D4.
I had all EQ on the amp set to 12 o'clock - meaning I wasn't really using any EQ. It was just the amp (and any of its coloration) along with just the D4 itself.
I'll have a chance next week to use the Bud at a big band rehearsal with a different band, and I bet it will be more of the same. By no means is this an indictment of the Double Four. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. For the money, you're not going to find much better. But at nearly 2.5x the cost, I would expect the Bud to be better ... and so far, it seems to be. It's crazy how good, small, light, and loud a lot of amps or amp/speaker combos are these days even at affordable price points. Choice is a good thing!
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Chef
In Memoriam
Anyway; since it says show yours, here it is
That is one gorgeous looking top! What kind of wood is that? Is this your first RA?
Chef
In Memoriam
It's Koa; it is my first; first show w it tonight.
I think we'll be friends.
My intonation is a little off in the lower registers because 35" scale; hopefully I can acclimate.
It sounds pretty great at home.
I think we'll be friends.
My intonation is a little off in the lower registers because 35" scale; hopefully I can acclimate.
It sounds pretty great at home.
A koa deep 5 strung E-C is my dream. Hopefully Rob includes 34 inch scale fives into his build schedule or reconsiders the occasional custom job down the line. A man can dream.
Chef
In Memoriam
Chef
In Memoriam
I liked it; the guys liked it. 4 piece jazz thing with drums, bass, sax, piano. Mesa D800+ and Baer ML112 set "flat with a little boost at
~500hz."
~500hz."
BassHappy
Supporting Member
Hey Chef!
So nice to see you here! Welcome to the wonderful world of deep, warm and round - the world of piezos and tapes! She's a beauty. If you are like me that bass will continue to grow on you. So much magic in simplicity. I have the fretted mouse and mine has the original strings a full 14 years later. They sound better every day. I have never even touched the trim pot tone control. No reason to.
Congrats!
Chef
In Memoriam
BassHappy
Supporting Member
Hey Chef
My trim pot is dialed all the way counter clockwise and I have never changed it. I hung with Rob in his shop back in 2004 a few times when he was in Santa Barbara - and I knew that the frets added a lot of brightness. If you play with your fingers a lot and play fretless I bet that trim pot would bring you some magic. But for a fretted pick player like me - I have plenty of top. In fact, even his ebony boards for me were a bit "klacky". He used a rosewood board on mine but "ebonized" it to look black so it wouldn't conflict with the busy spalted and flamed top. I had played around with the trim pot then, and realized I liked it rolled off, so that is where it has stayed. Below is Rob's take on the string issue from his website, amazing that both of ours were 2004. I wouldn't be shocked at all if those strings are original:
How often should I change the strings? I'm glad you asked! depending on the type of player you are, maybe never. Ok, maybe every 10 years or so......the La Bella 760n strings that come stock on the Mb-2, Mouse 30 and Deep 4/5 basses are a steel string with an outer nylon wrap on them. This nylon wrap protects the metal from moisture and finger oils, so the strings do not wear out, or break, even after many years of use! they do however become less clear and more diffuse sounding. If you are going for a more upright kind of sound, this may be just the ticket. For a clearer, more defined and singing fretless tone a new set of strings every 1~3 years should be about right. Its' a matter of taste.
Hey, if it is sounding the way you like with the trim pot open, I wouldn't change a thing!
My trim pot is dialed all the way counter clockwise and I have never changed it. I hung with Rob in his shop back in 2004 a few times when he was in Santa Barbara - and I knew that the frets added a lot of brightness. If you play with your fingers a lot and play fretless I bet that trim pot would bring you some magic. But for a fretted pick player like me - I have plenty of top. In fact, even his ebony boards for me were a bit "klacky". He used a rosewood board on mine but "ebonized" it to look black so it wouldn't conflict with the busy spalted and flamed top. I had played around with the trim pot then, and realized I liked it rolled off, so that is where it has stayed. Below is Rob's take on the string issue from his website, amazing that both of ours were 2004. I wouldn't be shocked at all if those strings are original:
How often should I change the strings? I'm glad you asked! depending on the type of player you are, maybe never. Ok, maybe every 10 years or so......the La Bella 760n strings that come stock on the Mb-2, Mouse 30 and Deep 4/5 basses are a steel string with an outer nylon wrap on them. This nylon wrap protects the metal from moisture and finger oils, so the strings do not wear out, or break, even after many years of use! they do however become less clear and more diffuse sounding. If you are going for a more upright kind of sound, this may be just the ticket. For a clearer, more defined and singing fretless tone a new set of strings every 1~3 years should be about right. Its' a matter of taste.
Hey, if it is sounding the way you like with the trim pot open, I wouldn't change a thing!
