Slam, Punch, and Heft

[Mike Caldwell]

I've got a reasonable grasp of how speakers work, and have read a lot of comments that compare the tone quality of different speakers. My hunch is that two things affect punch:

1. Overall volume, which will sound more punchy but will also have more responsive feel, all other things being equal. This could be governed by sensitivity, amp power, or knob settings. It's ridiculously difficult to make all other things equal. Room acoustics will have an effect too.

2. Mid-bass at the expense of response at the lowest frequencies. This also compensates for drivers with limited excursion.

An amusing thing I've noticed is that most of the terms used to describe bass amp sound seem related to feelings of masculinity: Heft, girth, punch, slam, wham, thank-you-ma'am, roundness, and so forth.

I'm surprised nobody has begun to use the term "torque."

Marketing departments, take note.

If your talking about the original Servo Drive subs then the word "torque" has some meaning!

 

[Michedelic]

Personally, I prefer the old “Batman” speakers. Less Slam, Punch, and Heft, but more Biff, Bang, and Pow, with an occasional Kapow for when I need a little something “extra”.

View attachment 7156872

Here you go…


Slam, Punch, and Heft was my old law firm.

 

[BuddhaFingas]

Try putting 100 lbs of weight on top the neo.

Could be nothing more than Newton at work.

 

[smo]

There's a lot of science going on here, even where you're standing in the room.
I wouldn't over complicate it, just play the one you prefer.

 

[agedhorse]

I voted “yes”. The neo loaded cabinets I have used are far superior to the old ferrite magnet cabinets I have used.

I don’t think that’s because of the magnets, but rather due to the fact that modern bass drivers and cabinet design are so much better. Maybe the neo magnets allow for better driver designs?

Anyway the new stuff crushes the old stuff.

Neo allows for different designs, something I wish existed years earlier. I was able to achieve this with ceramic motors, but it took a lot more work and were a lot heavier.

As an example, the Delta 15A derived from an earlier driver that we developed (inspired by the EVM and FORCE 15. It had extended mid-HF but had to give up more LF extension than the equivalent ceramic versions.

 

[L Anthony]

Slam, punch and heft are going to vary greatly depending upon the system's achieved peak horsepower per degrees Rankine at one atmosphere. So listen wisely.

 

[Geri O]

Lol no, but you’re welcome to walk down the psycho path and believe whatever you choose.
It’s no different than saying a bass built before CBS signed a contract versus the same parts and tools and employees a week after.

Nostalgia is a helluva drug.

"Quotes" can be your friend.....

 

[Geri O]

Where is the "I don't care" button?

While I'd love such a button, I think the best way to show disinterest in such mundane topics is to simply not comment or participate.

Yeah, I'm responding very little these days.....

(As opposed to the very helpful responses to a few questions I've posted here lately. Grateful for those....)

 

[Plain Old Barry]

If your talking about the original Servo Drive subs then the word "torque" has some meaning!

Forget magnet shift, Servodrive subs sounded spectacular when the belt came off...

 

[JimiLL]

If sound differences do come down to design and tuning, then why are newer cabs tuned in a way that leaves something to be desired?

I for one absolutely notice a difference with amp topology, although I don’t have a lot of experience with different cabs. Sometimes I think falling somewhere on the spectrum allows me to hear things others don’t.

 

[agedhorse]

If sound differences do come down to design and tuning, then why are newer cabs tuned in a way that leaves something to be desired?

I for one absolutely notice a difference with amp topology, although I don’t have a lot of experience with different cabs. Sometimes I think falling somewhere on the spectrum allows me to hear things others don’t.

Designers are responding to what (most) players want to hear and feel. Music evolves, preferences evolve, styles evolve. Just look at the bass market… of course there are the players who think that 4 strings P’s are the ONLY bass players should play, because 5 strings are sacrilege, but of course personal preference is a big influence here too.

If you don’t like a technology, or the variety of choices that are available, that’s fine, but my objection is when players become disrespectful to others who have different wants, needs or preferences.

The newer cabinets may not be desirable to you, but that doesn’t mean that they are undesirable to others.

(I’m not saying that YOU are being disrespectful)

 

[Passinwind]

If sound differences do come down to design and tuning, then why are newer cabs tuned in a way that leaves something to be desired?

IME, and IMHO, because that's what the market actually dictates at this time. TB is chock full of people who intensely dislike modern music but for so many of us things move on and evolve.

Hearing things others don't is a real mixed blessing, I feel. And that's only if and when what we are hearing is real, psychoacoustics can be a pretty interesting deal.

 

[agedhorse]

IME, and IMHO, because that's what the market actually dictates at this time. TB is chock full of people who intensely dislike modern music but for so many of us things move on and evolve.

Hearing things others don't is a real mixed blessing, I feel. And that's only if and when what we are hearing is real, psychoacoustics can be a pretty interesting deal.

Some of this is designing what was really desired even 20-30 years ago but was either impossible, impractical or too expensive.

What I would have given for a ~60 pound high performance 215 back in the day for example.

 

[N Scott Shaw]

Sorry if this may have already been mentioned, but the weight of the older speakers could have a better mechanical connection to the stage or floor.

 

[Passinwind]

Some of this is designing what was really desired even 20-30 years ago but was either impossible, impractical or too expensive.

What I would have given for a ~60 pound high performance 215 back in the day for example.

Agreed, and a big part of the 'evolution" aspect. I actually was never really happy with any of my bass rigs until after 2000 or so, playing since 1970.

And yeah, my role models back in the late 70s and early 80s were lugging pairs of E-V SH1503s, with racked DC300As or similar. That sounded pretty good to me at the time, but cost and weight made owning a rig like that completely out of bounds for many of us.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Music evolves, preferences evolve, styles evolve.

This rings true with my experience and why I much prefer my Mesa Subway 1x15 overall as compared to Old School Cabs I used[owned] in my earlier days which I enjoyed at the time. Including Ampeg 8x10, Ampeg 4x10, SWR 4x10 Goliath, Trace Elliot 4x10 plus similar others I didn't own but played on stage

As did the Music I have listened to and prefered over time; still enjoy the old stuff whether Music or Gear but my preferences have evolved over time as have my skill/technique and style of play evolved also

 

[Thumpin6string]

I can only give my experience with my Epifani UL210 Series 3. For some reason Epifani went to ceramic speakers in this series cab. It sounded fine but was not really that light weight like their older models. I switched the speakers to the B&C neos like the older cabs had and boy did that wake that cab up (and lightened it up). It now has way more punch and low end grunt. Way better than the original ceramic speakers IMHO.

 

[agedhorse]

Sorry if this may have already been mentioned, but the weight of the older speakers could have a better mechanical connection to the stage or floor.

No, that’s neither meaningful, nor desireable either.

 

[Thumpin6string]

When I first started playing bass in the 70s, my cab was a 100 pound plus folded horn with an 18" Cerwin Vega. My current 60 pound 210/112 neo stack would kill my old cab and will handle a whole lot more wattage.

 

[pepj]

Sometimes, just more capable bass cabinets were enough. I recall using an 18" which actually produce bass and that was progress enough at that time.
For me the turning point was SWR who took over from Trace Elliot.
Now, I don't see or hear too much tangible improvement in terms of sounding better but I do get that efficient cabs weigh less and that's the semi pro type market.
When I'm looking at new amps and cabs, I know what I like. And circumstances like carry will be factor.
If weight wasn't an option, my wish list would be different.