source audio c4

[Quatschmacher]

I enjoyed everything about that. Was there some expression control in there?

Yes, expression controls the processor pan of voice two and the mod source. I also turned the control 2 knob while playing which is set to the filter 2 frequency. Easy to do with your right hand when the sequencer is doing all the work!

 

[Quatschmacher]

Here's another:
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Neuro Community by Source Audio

 

[pbfrog]

Here's another:
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Neuro Community by Source Audio

My 18 month old daughter loved it!

 

[Schopes]

Hello! I am relatively new to learning synth programming, but I understand the basics.

I was wondering if anybody has a more detailed description of the envelopes? I like the names for some of them, but some don’t have full names? I know all of what ADSR means, but I’d just be curious about a better description of how much I am changing the settings when I am altering the speed.

I know, I should set things up mostly based on how it sounds rather than numbers, but having that knowledge would help me out I think. I’m already getting great sounds out of it, but just looking for some more info.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

So, I relatively recently bought a Line6 Helix Stomp and while some of the synths are okay, the C4 has me intrigued. I'm more into it for covering 70's and 80's keyboards and synth bass, so generally not extreme settings.

Can the C4 models be bought and loaded into the Stomp? I'd rather keep all the sounds in one box and program (beyond the 6 slots) without buying extra pedals.

 

[Real Soon]

So, I relatively recently bought a Line6 Helix Stomp and while some of the synths are okay, the C4 has me intrigued. I'm more into it for covering 70's and 80's keyboards and synth bass, so generally not extreme settings.

Can the C4 models be bought and loaded into the Stomp? I'd rather keep all the sounds in one box and program (beyond the 6 slots) without buying extra pedals.

Is that the HX Stomp? I'd be surprised if the synths in it can't be tweaked to some degree, but I'm not too familiar with the line.

Because the software and presets are proprietary (and would differ based on synth engine design anyway), I'm gonna wager there's no way to borrow the presets. Plus, the preset community is all owner-contributed, so there'd be no one to pay for them (aside from Source Audio for designing the pedal for them )

IMHO, you can make room on one board for both that Line6 and a full-on synth pedal. After all, a patch might need extra modulation once in a while, or a sound need to sit in a different place on your board.

 

[Real Soon]

Here's another:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Neuro Community by Source Audio

Whoa mama. You know, that's pretty much a film score bit. Maybe drop it into a DAW and add a couple of other elements like high strings or in & out percussion? Felt like a thriller or vintage-styled spy action scene!

 

[bassbrad]

Some of asked for this:

ENVELOPES IN THE C4
8/19/19

The Source Audio C4 Synth pedal has two envelope followers available. They both have the same capabilities, but their control parameters may be set differently. Input 1 or input 2 may serve as the input signal to either. An envelope follower uses its audio input signal to output a representation of how loud the audio is at the moment. Louder signals get a higher output level from the envelope follower.

Since the audio signal goes both positive and negative, we first take the absolute value of the audio; negative values are replaced by the same number, but made positive. A certain amount of smoothing is necessary, because the input signal will repeatedly go to zero, but at a rate which we don't perceive as a level change, since it is happening too fast for us to hear like that. Deliberately introducing a slower than necessary smoothing will cause the output to move more slowly than the actual audio signal changes. Different smoothing rates for attack (a rising output) and decay (a falling output) permit more control over the final response.

Whereas a typical synthesizer has a controllable release time on its envelopes (which begins when one takes their hand off a keyboard note), we have the problem that the guitar sound is over when a note is through. A synthesizer oscillator would still be running, but the pitch detector output tends to lose it as a note is dying away, so the synth oscillator is also not reliably available after note end. So our final release times are always quite short.


We also offer ADSR type envelopes (attack – decay – sustain – release). The attack segment begins when an attack threshold level is exceeded. When the envelope level gets to 1.0 (full scale ON), the decay segment takes over, dropping until the sustain level is reached. When the input gets below a release threshold, we go into a (fast, as always) release segment. These threshold levels are fixed. One more reason to do the Input Gain Calibration procedure, to make sure your guitar signal is in the proper range, for the fixed thresholds.

All of these possible envelope controls are not brought out to the user interface. This is partly due to trying to save bits in the preset data (and if you had asked me 50 years ago whether saving bits would still be a thing in 2019, I would have laughed), and also to keep the complexity down. Reasonable people may disagree that boiling down a lot of controls into only a few, with a selection of envelope types, is really simpler. But that's the way it is.
The Envelope Type definitions:



The Speed control goes from 0.0 to 1.0, for both Attack and Decay times. This is translated to the following range of what are called "time constants". (After one time constant, a decaying signal has dropped to 36.8% (or -8.7 dB) from its starting value.)


The Fast-Attack number controls exactly how fast the initial attack can rise. 1.0 is instantaneous; 0.5 is the fastest used. Most are considerably slower. The ADSR envelopes do not use this control.

Sustain is the ADSR sustain level. Most are 0.0, with two at 0.2. ​

Hello! I am relatively new to learning synth programming, but I understand the basics.

I was wondering if anybody has a more detailed description of the envelopes? I like the names for some of them, but some don’t have full names? I know all of what ADSR means, but I’d just be curious about a better description of how much I am changing the settings when I am altering the speed.

I know, I should set things up mostly based on how it sounds rather than numbers, but having that knowledge would help me out I think. I’m already getting great sounds out of it, but just looking for some more info.

Well @Schopes you had to ask so above see the answer, l not sure how much help you will find it. From my gleaning and I might be wrong this was a real buggaboo part of the design process and ate up a lot of processing so the design team made decisions, as certainly must be done, to use certain templates for simplification. I suggested and others as well for some sort of a graphic representation of the envelopes but that seemed to be an un-lickable request. ;-).

 

[intrglctcrevfnk]

So, I relatively recently bought a Line6 Helix Stomp and while some of the synths are okay, the C4 has me intrigued. I'm more into it for covering 70's and 80's keyboards and synth bass, so generally not extreme settings.

Can the C4 models be bought and loaded into the Stomp? I'd rather keep all the sounds in one box and program (beyond the 6 slots) without buying extra pedals.

That’s a negative. I’ve got a C4 and an HX stomp, I don’t think you could model the C4 sounds into the HX even manually. Definitely not able to pull it in via preset files.

There are some great 70’s and 80’s synth sounds in the C4! I spent 8 years in a touring 80’s cover band (3 female singers, a lot of Madonna, GoGo’s, Banannarama, etc) and I could have nailed some sounds with the C4.
I’ve got the HX handling mod/preamp/looper duties mostly. I think filters and pitch stuff is the only thing lacking in the Line6 lineup. Replaced an M9 with the HX and I only use the bass octaver from the pitch section because the C4 offered superior sounds.

My board is fairly simple; Bass Whammy (pitch)>C4(synth/envelope)>Aftershock(dirt-but the HX could displace it)>TC SpectraComp(boost/slap comp)>HX Stomp. It’s all MIDI controlled

 

[Schopes]

Well @Schopes you had to ask so above see the answer, l not sure how much help you will find it. From my gleaning and I might be wrong this was a real buggaboo part of the design process and ate up a lot of processing so the design team made decisions, as certainly must be done, to use certain templates for simplification. I suggested and others as well for some sort of a graphic representation of the envelopes but that seemed to be an un-lickable request. ;-).

Thanks for the response! This info will help me a quite a bit. I must have missed it while going through this forum? Or maybe I just forgot about.

I do agree a graphic representations would be nice as well!

 

[kesslari]

On a similar note to @Schopes - I'd love to have a better understanding of the different Filters available on the C4.

 

[Robertron]

@Quatschmacher It's disgusting how nice you are with this pedal. Really good stuff!

 

[OhulahanBass]

;-).

Thanks for re-posting that. I am glad for the info. I am still a little confused on a couple of things:

1) Is the input gain procedure where you adjust until the light starts to blink red need to be readjusted for every preset if you change instruments or is there some auto-scaling once set. I guess what I am asking is if I calibrate on preset 1 and my master input gain is set to 12:00 but when I switch to a new preset the input gain is at 4:00. Does that mean I need to recalibrate for that preset?

2) When using an ADSR, not inverted, I can't seem to keep the envelope from decaying below the original cutoff and getting stuck until I briefly stop play. Is this normal, any clues on what I may be doing wrong?

I've been able to get some decent vintagey synth voices, some GREAT dirt into filter sounds and some awesome esoteric nasty sounds so far. The pedal is a lot of fun.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

That’s a negative. I’ve got a C4 and an HX stomp, I don’t think you could model the C4 sounds into the HX even manually. Definitely not able to pull it in via preset files.

There are some great 70’s and 80’s synth sounds in the C4! I spent 8 years in a touring 80’s cover band (3 female singers, a lot of Madonna, GoGo’s, Banannarama, etc) and I could have nailed some sounds with the C4.
I’ve got the HX handling mod/preamp/looper duties mostly. I think filters and pitch stuff is the only thing lacking in the Line6 lineup. Replaced an M9 with the HX and I only use the bass octaver from the pitch section because the C4 offered superior sounds.

My board is fairly simple; Bass Whammy (pitch)>C4(synth/envelope)>Aftershock(dirt-but the HX could displace it)>TC SpectraComp(boost/slap comp)>HX Stomp. It’s all MIDI controlled
View attachment 3567964

I have a lot of pedals and was hoping to get it down to just a few or as few as possible. The board I keep for my main band is very simple: chorus, compressor, mini tuner and timer. It could use an octave, but is full and I can manage without it.

My other bands require a lot of pedals for one song, but I don't really like having a huge board. Plus, I love the idea of versatility, but realize I am not much of a tweaker so I need to be able to get it quickly and it be intuitive and easy to use. I know nothing about filters and what all the controls do, I just want to hear the end result!

The HX Stomp was bought mainly for the size and amount of stuff in it. I don't need any of the amp and cab modelling.

 

[bassbrad]

I have a lot of pedals and was hoping to get it down to just a few or as few as possible. The board I keep for my main band is very simple: chorus, compressor, mini tuner and timer. It could use an octave, but is full and I can manage without it.

My other bands require a lot of pedals for one song, but I don't really like having a huge board. Plus, I love the idea of versatility, but realize I am not much of a tweaker so I need to be able to get it quickly and it be intuitive and easy to use. I know nothing about filters and what all the controls do, I just want to hear the end result!

The HX Stomp was bought mainly for the size and amount of stuff in it. I don't need any of the amp and cab modelling.

The C4 has a lot of possibilities for live performance but certainly not for everyone, it takes a certain commitment in gear & programming in order to make a lot of changes live, most bass and guitar players by nature are not into that most of us are more fly by wire.

The upside of the C4 is the community of creators who are busy creating and sharing sounds for free that you can sample and load for FREE into your C4 that is constantly evolving, chances are someone else will need the same sounds of there will be something close in the Cloud Library you can tweak. Honestly once you start messing with the C4 it can become an obsession creating sounds.

Then again something like the EHX Bass Mono Synth, Synth9 or the Boss SY1 may be more what you are looking for or Line6 may get more in the game by partnering with another company.

 

[Quatschmacher]

2) When using an ADSR, not inverted, I can't seem to keep the envelope from decaying below the original cutoff and getting stuck until I briefly stop play. Is this normal, any clues on what I may be doing wrong?

The ADSR is a little bit of a misnomer (forgive me for saying so) as there is no actual way to adjust the sustain stage. So, with a couple of exceptions (which have a higher preset sustain stage), the cutoff will always decay back down to the cutoff set in the filter section. It’s the one of the two thing I think stops this pedal from being as great as it could be. It’s especially noticeable when using long sequences.

 

[BurningSkies]

The C4 has a lot of possibilities for live performance but certainly not for everyone, it takes a certain commitment in gear & programming in order to make a lot of changes live, most bass and guitar players by nature are not into that most of us are more fly by wire.

The upside of the C4 is the community of creators who are busy creating and sharing sounds for free that you can sample and load for FREE into your C4 that is constantly evolving, chances are someone else will need the same sounds of there will be something close in the Cloud Library you can tweak. Honestly once you start messing with the C4 it can become an obsession creating sounds.

Then again something like the EHX Bass Mono Synth, Synth9 or the Boss SY1 may be more what you are looking for or Line6 may get more in the game by partnering with another company.

My 'home playing time' with my full setup is limited, so I've come to sort of allocate a specific night here or there to edit any of the pedal hardware. It can certainly be a rabbit hole if you're going to build or edit sounds on the C4 but also any of the digital pedals. Same for working with my Strymon, my verb or FI...or when I need to mess with my DMC and ES-5 and build new patches.

I sort of realize that if I go into my music room to do a few quick adjustments, it could end up killing a whole night, so if I actually need to woodshed material for performance I don't even bother to initiate any 'programming' work.

 

[bassbrad]

My 'home playing time' with my full setup is limited, so I've come to sort of allocate a specific night here or there to edit any of the pedal hardware. It can certainly be a rabbit hole if you're going to build or edit sounds on the C4 but also any of the digital pedals. Same for working with my Strymon, my verb or FI...or when I need to mess with my DMC and ES-5 and build new patches.

I sort of realize that if I go into my music room to do a few quick adjustments, it could end up killing a whole night, so if I actually need to woodshed material for performance I don't even bother to initiate any 'programming' work.

I know what you mean, I am in the process of resurrecting an old netbook so i can have access on the road with my growing collection of 'puter accessible efx when out of the studio, since that is looking like a strong possibility even in my decrepitude.

 

[BurningSkies]

I know what you mean, I am in the process of resurrecting an old netbook so i can have access on the road with my growing collection of 'puter accessible efx when out of the studio, since that is looking like a strong possibility even in my decrepitude.

Harder for me is that I really seem to need my stage rig to have some level of predictability in C4 sounds, and that's often packed/locked away in a van rather than at home with me. Dialing in sounds with a different amp/cab is really unpredictable for me with the C4 in ways that it wasn't with traditional pedals. I don't know why it is...but it is.

 

[bassbrad]

The ADSR is a little bit of a misnomer (forgive me for saying so) as there is no actual way to adjust the sustain stage. So, with a couple of exceptions (which have a higher preset sustain stage), the cutoff will always decay back down to the cutoff set in the filter section. It’s the one of the two thing I think stops this pedal from being as great as it could be. It’s especially noticeable when using long sequences.

For sequences I discovered it's best to have the Envelope OFF selected with a wave form. That is one reason I got the EHX SuperEgo+ to see if I can work that into giving me some longer sustain times once i really get the hang of it, but still nothing like a keyboard triggered synth as far as a true ADSR would respond. I also want to have the sequencer running or have a synth or orchestra pad while manipulating a filter down the signal path [my moded BassBalls is perfect for that better than the BmS]