Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[Bassgeer]

I have a question for the SA gurus:

The compression capabilities of my Ultrawave are becoming increasingly appealing, especially as a multi-band compressor. I have messed around with some of the dual-band presets available, and am wondering if it is feasible to set up a pseudo-three band compressor - that is, channel 1 compresses the mids, channel 2 compresses the highs (both of which I can figure out), and somehow the lows are left uncompressed - that's the part I can't work out.

Using the HPF and LPF from the graphic EQ block, I can basically set up a crossover that has mids on channel 1 and highs on channel 2. I guess what I am looking for is some way to do something like a side-chain HPF on the channel 1 compressor.

Any suggestions?

 

[Derek Williams]

I have a question for the SA gurus:

The compression capabilities of my Ultrawave are becoming increasingly appealing, especially as a multi-band compressor. I have messed around with some of the dual-band presets available, and am wondering if it is feasible to set up a pseudo-three band compressor - that is, channel 1 compresses the mids, channel 2 compresses the highs (both of which I can figure out), and somehow the lows are left uncompressed - that's the part I can't work out.

Using the HPF and LPF from the graphic EQ block, I can basically set up a crossover that has mids on channel 1 and highs on channel 2. I guess what I am looking for is some way to do something like a side-chain HPF on the channel 1 compressor.

Any suggestions?

A side chain HPF (like what the Cali76 CB has) doesn’t cause the lows to be uncompressed. It just prevents the lows from triggering compression. In your proposed setup if compression is triggered by the mids the lows will still be compressed as well. A side chain HPF is not the same as dual band compression.

Even so, I haven’t seen any way of having a sidechain on the Ultrawave compressor. It always uses the full signal that it is compressing.

 

[Bassgeer]

A side chain HPF (like what the Cali76 CB has) doesn’t cause the lows to be uncompressed. It just prevents the lows from triggering compression. In your proposed setup if compression is triggered by the mids the lows will still be compressed as well. A side chain HPF is not the same as dual band compression.

Even so, I haven’t seen any way of having a sidechain on the Ultrawave compressor. It always uses the full signal that it is compressing.

That makes sense, thanks Derek!

 

[GMC]

A side chain HPF (like what the Cali76 CB has) doesn’t cause the lows to be uncompressed. It just prevents the lows from triggering compression. In your proposed setup if compression is triggered by the mids the lows will still be compressed as well. A side chain HPF is not the same as dual band compression.

Even so, I haven’t seen any way of having a sidechain on the Ultrawave compressor. It always uses the full signal that it is compressing.

Side chaining is a way of triggering the compressor without having to have a second compression engine / multiband compression. The Ultrawave is a little different than even multiband compressors. A lot of the information about the Ultrawave is about the various dirt / multband / multiwave dirt options and it's ability to morph. A Morph slides between two dirt models with in one channel. The clean compression is the same for both sides of the morph. So you don't need to resort to a side chain for a single compression engine when you have the freedom of two entirely separate compressors.
How does this work? The Ultrawave is a stereo device and has 2 channels, left and right. These channels can be separated (unlinked) and routed as two separate / distinct devices with their own controls. These two channels can be blended using the Balance control (and Mono>Stereo>Mono routings). This "balance" control can be assigned to an expression pedal or one of the top faced controls. The beauty of these two channels (and it's big advantage over morphing) is that you are effectively blending any / all setting of 2 completely different Ultrawave patches. Morphing allows you to move between two sub sets of features. Channel Balancing allows you to move between 2 entirely different patches. It's literally like blending between two Ultrawave pedals.
I have one patch that balances between a gated muff and a non gated muff. I have another that balances between a high gain muff with heavy compression and the same patch but with no compression. The options are limitless and only bound by one's creativity and time spend with the Neuro UI. Nathan designed a true multiband compressor that has filters for top end and low end compression. This works well, but I seems to get more mileage in my approach above.

 

[GMC]

I think I've finally nailed my Chorus on bass needs...it's been a long and bumpy journey. I picked up a Lunar about a year back and if any thing can resolve my bass chorus needs...SA with it's extensive neuro controls was going to be my best bet. I chose the Lunar because it's got the most bass friendly baked in controls...the Gemini with it's tone and mixer...no...not really....
To bang a very old and broken gong...we really need assignable controls on the Lunar / Gemini / Mercury. Anyway....moving on.
The problem with most Chorus pedals on the market is that they are designed for the Guitar frequencies. Most digital chorus pedals model those classic units and authentically replicate the age old problem, chorus pedals suck the life out of bass. They loose low end rapidly and when you finally get enough wetness, the only way to retain low end is to dial in a parallel mixer. By the time you get the bass / low end right then all your top end wetness is pointlessly diluted.
Where the Source Audio Modulator's can help resolve these issues:
The low retain control is amazing on bass. Forget the mixer...the low retain is where it's at for the low end. You can dial in as much of the low end as you need...with out loosing all your top end effected-ness. The 4 band EQ is great for dialling in low end too. These controls seem to be quite low Q values, so they are quite notchy and not too global (perfect choice for modulation btw). I discovered that a 16db boost at 3Khz pretty much opens up any chorus sound on bass. No other Chorus pedal on the market has the low retain, bass and 3khz treble control options. The treble control seems to be quite a tight band, so I don't hear a lot of top end hiss either.

I've posted a pair of patches on the Cloud under my Neuro name of Gazzajagman. GMC Purple Rain and GMC - Mild CE-2 are the two patches. Try them out and tell me what you think? These are based on DC-2 sounds but the eq's will work on any of the Chorus patches / models. I've assigned the speed control to Midi expression pedal.
It's a shame I can't assign bass and treble to the pedal knobs...opps...there I go again.....

I've finally found what I'm looking for bass Chorus wise in my Source Audio Lunar.

 

[Derek Williams]

Side chaining is a way of triggering the compressor without having to have a second compression engine / multiband compression. The Ultrawave is a little different than even multiband compressors. A lot of the information about the Ultrawave is about the various dirt / multband / multiwave dirt options and it's ability to morph. A Morph slides between two dirt models with in one channel. The clean compression is the same for both sides of the morph. So you don't need to resort to a side chain for a single compression engine when you have the freedom of two entirely separate compressors.
How does this work? The Ultrawave is a stereo device and has 2 channels, left and right. These channels can be separated (unlinked) and routed as two separate / distinct devices with their own controls. These two channels can be blended using the Balance control (and Mono>Stereo>Mono routings). This "balance" control can be assigned to an expression pedal or one of the top faced controls. The beauty of these two channels (and it's big advantage over morphing) is that you are effectively blending any / all setting of 2 completely different Ultrawave patches. Morphing allows you to move between two sub sets of features. Channel Balancing allows you to move between 2 entirely different patches. It's literally like blending between two Ultrawave pedals.
I have one patch that balances between a gated muff and a non gated muff. I have another that balances between a high gain muff with heavy compression and the same patch but with no compression. The options are limitless and only bound by one's creativity and time spend with the Neuro UI. Nathan designed a true multiband compressor that has filters for top end and low end compression. This works well, but I seems to get more mileage in my approach above.

Yeah, I made my own dual band compression patch with the Ultrawave (I couldn’t make Nate’s work for me). I liked using it because I didn’t need to blend the 2 channels, I could output them separately and then put extra effects on the higher frequency band, then merge later (with my EQ2). In that way I found the Ultrawave superior to other multiband compressors.

 

[GMC]

One of the frustrations with dealing with the Neuro Interface for the Gemini, Mercury and Lunar is that their manuals were last updated in Feb 2016 and doesn't cover much of the Neuro desktop. The manual was written for version 1.06, we are currently on 1.10. A lot has changed and unfortunately the manual hasn't.
The most fundamental issue is that the Neuro desktop is barely mentioned in the manual and yet it's largely how we are going to view / control this app beyond its stock pre-sets. There is nothing in the manual that remotely looks like this interface and that's baffling for any new user. There's no device settings help in the Neuro desktop app either.
The EQ section is now wrong in several areas. There is no Q control any more for the 4 band EQ and can't be used as shelving bands (HPF and LPF). However, the fixed Q point of the current firmware are pretty much spot on for this type of effect.
The details of how the Mix control works is no longer true, pure dry is now at 12-noon and not far left. In fact how the mix control currently operates is undocumented, as are the relationship between Channel 1 and Channel 2 and how it mixes between them.
There's no documentation on the Channel 2 settings at all, specifically Offset, Mix invert and Trem invert. There's also no documentation on how the Expression pedal is assigned / works with this particular interface. You kind of have to work this out for your self or contact support and burden them with it. This really should be covered in the manual.
I still don't understand why there are 8 knobs at the bottom of the interface. They correspond to the physical knobs on the device, but I can't seem to get them to do anything. All I know is they go green if I change them from the default 0 value.
Most of the current manual seems to cover the Phone Neuro app, which is fine but that's been updated several times and looks nothing like this any more...in fact it operates differently too. The 2 channel routing has changed a lot since this manual was written, currently there are 10 options, the manual only covers 5 of these.

I appreciate that this is an old series of devices and it's limited by hardware / current firmware and the legacy support of it's Neuro Cloud patches. Assignable controls would be top of my wish list. Secondary are the 128 patch memory and midi CC patch changing. I appreciate that it's nearly 7 years old as a product and probably very low of Source Audio's "to-do" list. However, I think that the manual really should be re-written and kept up to date.

After saying all of this, it is by far the best Modulation pedal I've owned, and I've owned quite a few. Sonically and features wise...it's the best there is in my humble opinion. It's 4 band EQ and low retain control take this modulation pedal to a whole new level of apply ability as a bassist. It's manual is painfully out of date and the instructions are quite cryptic in many places. For instance, the manual's "Resonance" control is now called Feedback in the Neuro App....not helpful...however...there is nothing else that comes close to it on the market and it's currently best of breed. It's just taken me a year to find those particular settings.

 

[IronSpatula]

One of the frustrations with dealing with the Neuro Interface for the Gemini, Mercury and Lunar is that their manuals were last updated in Feb 2016 and doesn't cover much of the Neuro desktop. The manual was written for version 1.06, we are currently on 1.10. A lot has changed and unfortunately the manual hasn't.
The most fundamental issue is that the Neuro desktop is barely mentioned in the manual and yet it's largely how we are going to view / control this app beyond its stock pre-sets. There is nothing in the manual that remotely looks like this interface and that's baffling for any new user. There's no device settings help in the Neuro desktop app either.
The EQ section is now wrong in several areas. There is no Q control any more for the 4 band EQ and can't be used as shelving bands (HPF and LPF). However, the fixed Q point of the current firmware are pretty much spot on for this type of effect.
The details of how the Mix control works is no longer true, pure dry is now at 12-noon and not far left. In fact how the mix control currently operates is undocumented, as are the relationship between Channel 1 and Channel 2 and how it mixes between them.
There's no documentation on the Channel 2 settings at all, specifically Offset, Mix invert and Trem invert. There's also no documentation on how the Expression pedal is assigned / works with this particular interface. You kind of have to work this out for your self or contact support and burden them with it. This really should be covered in the manual.
I still don't understand why there are 8 knobs at the bottom of the interface. They correspond to the physical knobs on the device, but I can't seem to get them to do anything. All I know is they go green if I change them from the default 0 value.
Most of the current manual seems to cover the Phone Neuro app, which is fine but that's been updated several times and looks nothing like this any more...in fact it operates differently too. The 2 channel routing has changed a lot since this manual was written, currently there are 10 options, the manual only covers 5 of these.

I appreciate that this is an old series of devices and it's limited by hardware / current firmware and the legacy support of it's Neuro Cloud patches. Assignable controls would be top of my wish list. Secondary are the 128 patch memory and midi CC patch changing. I appreciate that it's nearly 7 years old as a product and probably very low of Source Audio's "to-do" list. However, I think that the manual really should be re-written and kept up to date.

After saying all of this, it is by far the best Modulation pedal I've owned, and I've owned quite a few. Sonically and features wise...it's the best there is in my humble opinion. It's 4 band EQ and low retain control take this modulation pedal to a whole new level of apply ability as a bassist. It's manual is painfully out of date and the instructions are quite cryptic in many places. For instance, the manual's "Resonance" control is now called Feedback in the Neuro App....not helpful...however...there is nothing else that comes close to it on the market and it's currently best of breed. It's just taken me a year to find those particular settings.

I wonder if they’re directing their modulation efforts toward something more like the Ventris or Multiwave in terms of power and flexibility. Although the current modulation pedals sound good and seem very useful (especially after reading your previous post), when compared to the newest pedals it almost seems like they’re due for a refresh.

 

[GMC]

I wonder if they’re directing their modulation efforts toward something more like the Ventris or Multiwave in terms of power and flexibility. Although the current modulation pedals sound good and seem very useful (especially after reading your previous post), when compared to the newest pedals it almost seems like they’re due for a refresh.

It’s not that far from perfect. It could do with a hardware and interface upgrade, but because it’s so old it is also very affordable. I had a Strymon Mobius previously and I could get an Ultrawave and a Luna for less than the Mobius. On bass, I think the Luna is a lot better too.

 

[Gibs210]

It’s not that far from perfect. It could do with a hardware and interface upgrade, but because it’s so old it is also very affordable. I had a Strymon Mobius previously and I could get an Ultrawave and a Luna for less than the Mobius. On bass, I think the Luna is a lot better too.

You can’t map specific controls for expression, so the knobs at the bottom are for minimum and maximum values for expression for the 4 onboard knobs

 

[rsmith601]

One of the frustrations with dealing with the Neuro Interface for the Gemini, Mercury and Lunar is that their manuals were last updated in Feb 2016 and doesn't cover much of the Neuro desktop. The manual was written for version 1.06, we are currently on 1.10. A lot has changed and unfortunately the manual hasn't.
The most fundamental issue is that the Neuro desktop is barely mentioned in the manual and yet it's largely how we are going to view / control this app beyond its stock pre-sets. There is nothing in the manual that remotely looks like this interface and that's baffling for any new user. There's no device settings help in the Neuro desktop app either.
The EQ section is now wrong in several areas. There is no Q control any more for the 4 band EQ and can't be used as shelving bands (HPF and LPF). However, the fixed Q point of the current firmware are pretty much spot on for this type of effect.
The details of how the Mix control works is no longer true, pure dry is now at 12-noon and not far left. In fact how the mix control currently operates is undocumented, as are the relationship between Channel 1 and Channel 2 and how it mixes between them.
There's no documentation on the Channel 2 settings at all, specifically Offset, Mix invert and Trem invert. There's also no documentation on how the Expression pedal is assigned / works with this particular interface. You kind of have to work this out for your self or contact support and burden them with it. This really should be covered in the manual.
I still don't understand why there are 8 knobs at the bottom of the interface. They correspond to the physical knobs on the device, but I can't seem to get them to do anything. All I know is they go green if I change them from the default 0 value.
Most of the current manual seems to cover the Phone Neuro app, which is fine but that's been updated several times and looks nothing like this any more...in fact it operates differently too. The 2 channel routing has changed a lot since this manual was written, currently there are 10 options, the manual only covers 5 of these.

I appreciate that this is an old series of devices and it's limited by hardware / current firmware and the legacy support of it's Neuro Cloud patches. Assignable controls would be top of my wish list. Secondary are the 128 patch memory and midi CC patch changing. I appreciate that it's nearly 7 years old as a product and probably very low of Source Audio's "to-do" list. However, I think that the manual really should be re-written and kept up to date.

After saying all of this, it is by far the best Modulation pedal I've owned, and I've owned quite a few. Sonically and features wise...it's the best there is in my humble opinion. It's 4 band EQ and low retain control take this modulation pedal to a whole new level of apply ability as a bassist. It's manual is painfully out of date and the instructions are quite cryptic in many places. For instance, the manual's "Resonance" control is now called Feedback in the Neuro App....not helpful...however...there is nothing else that comes close to it on the market and it's currently best of breed. It's just taken me a year to find those particular settings.

We probably made a big mistake by adding the modulators to the desktop? They were only $149 and intended to be simple products with very little support. The Phone app was added after release. We had no idea that was even possible during the development. We innovate and push as much out as we can. I don't think anyone wants us to back off on that. Right?

 

[gregmon79]

One of the frustrations with dealing with the Neuro Interface for the Gemini, Mercury and Lunar is that their manuals were last updated in Feb 2016 and doesn't cover much of the Neuro desktop. The manual was written for version 1.06, we are currently on 1.10. A lot has changed and unfortunately the manual hasn't.
The most fundamental issue is that the Neuro desktop is barely mentioned in the manual and yet it's largely how we are going to view / control this app beyond its stock pre-sets. There is nothing in the manual that remotely looks like this interface and that's baffling for any new user. There's no device settings help in the Neuro desktop app either.
The EQ section is now wrong in several areas. There is no Q control any more for the 4 band EQ and can't be used as shelving bands (HPF and LPF). However, the fixed Q point of the current firmware are pretty much spot on for this type of effect.
The details of how the Mix control works is no longer true, pure dry is now at 12-noon and not far left. In fact how the mix control currently operates is undocumented, as are the relationship between Channel 1 and Channel 2 and how it mixes between them.
There's no documentation on the Channel 2 settings at all, specifically Offset, Mix invert and Trem invert. There's also no documentation on how the Expression pedal is assigned / works with this particular interface. You kind of have to work this out for your self or contact support and burden them with it. This really should be covered in the manual.
I still don't understand why there are 8 knobs at the bottom of the interface. They correspond to the physical knobs on the device, but I can't seem to get them to do anything. All I know is they go green if I change them from the default 0 value.
Most of the current manual seems to cover the Phone Neuro app, which is fine but that's been updated several times and looks nothing like this any more...in fact it operates differently too. The 2 channel routing has changed a lot since this manual was written, currently there are 10 options, the manual only covers 5 of these.

I appreciate that this is an old series of devices and it's limited by hardware / current firmware and the legacy support of it's Neuro Cloud patches. Assignable controls would be top of my wish list. Secondary are the 128 patch memory and midi CC patch changing. I appreciate that it's nearly 7 years old as a product and probably very low of Source Audio's "to-do" list. However, I think that the manual really should be re-written and kept up to date.

After saying all of this, it is by far the best Modulation pedal I've owned, and I've owned quite a few. Sonically and features wise...it's the best there is in my humble opinion. It's 4 band EQ and low retain control take this modulation pedal to a whole new level of apply ability as a bassist. It's manual is painfully out of date and the instructions are quite cryptic in many places. For instance, the manual's "Resonance" control is now called Feedback in the Neuro App....not helpful...however...there is nothing else that comes close to it on the market and it's currently best of breed. It's just taken me a year to find those particular settings.

Can you cross pollinate like you can with the C4 and the spectrum? Like can you do all the same modulation across those three pedals now with the neuro network??

 

[Gibs210]

Can you cross pollinate like you can with the C4 and the spectrum? Like can you do all the same modulation across those three pedals now with the neuro network??

Lunar, Gemini, and Mercury are all compatible with their presets yes.

 

[ilansgroove]

Hey

got a question for you SA MIDI experts

got myself a midi controller for tweaking , the fader fox EC4 - great controller !!!!

Spend a day to program it and all my midi pedals …

had one weird issue !!!!

I mapped the LFO restart on env 1 trigger to a CC

when I click on the controller I see it switch on the editor , but it's not changing on the pedal , when I click on the mouse , it changes …

not a huge problem I know , it’s not like it’s something I need to do live … but it’s just too damn weird !!

 

[Les Fret]

For the next pedal in the line of the Spectrum and the Ultrawave I think it would be nice to have a (four voice) pitch shifting/harmonizer pedal. Maybe combined with a delay or ring mod/bitcrusher or something. Would love to see SA’s take on that. I think such a pedal is still missing in the SA arsenal. What do you think?

 

[Quatschmacher]

Hey

got a question for you SA MIDI experts

got myself a midi controller for tweaking , the fader fox EC4 - great controller !!!!

Spend a day to program it and all my midi pedals …

had one weird issue !!!!

I mapped the LFO restart on env 1 trigger to a CC

when I click on the controller I see it switch on the editor , but it's not changing on the pedal , when I click on the mouse , it changes …

not a huge problem I know , it’s not like it’s something I need to do live … but it’s just too damn weird !!

Report this to SA via email as you may have found a bug. There was another parameter I found that did exactly this a while back.

 

[GMC]

Hey

got a question for you SA MIDI experts

got myself a midi controller for tweaking , the fader fox EC4 - great controller !!!!

Spend a day to program it and all my midi pedals …

had one weird issue !!!!

I mapped the LFO restart on env 1 trigger to a CC

when I click on the controller I see it switch on the editor , but it's not changing on the pedal , when I click on the mouse , it changes …

not a huge problem I know , it’s not like it’s something I need to do live … but it’s just too damn weird !!

Congratz with the fader fox. That's a device on my "to-do" list!

 

[GMC]

We probably made a big mistake by adding the modulators to the desktop? They were only $149 and intended to be simple products with very little support. The Phone app was added after release. We had no idea that was even possible during the development. We innovate and push as much out as we can. I don't think anyone wants us to back off on that. Right?

Ha...no Roger I am really happy that I can access the wider controls on the Desktop, but the manual really needs an update. Innovation...NO don't stop! A lot of your devices are best of breed, which is why I have so many of them on my board. With the Lunar, I can get the best modulation sounds on my bass than any other modulator on the market. These are the best Chorus sounds on bass that I've ever had. For it's price point it's an astonishingly capable device. I think the manual upsets my OCD...that's all. It's easy to compare it to your newer devices like the Ultrawave or C4 and fell...what if...if only...but for $149...it's an absolute bargain.

In terms of innovation...what yas got cooking?

 

[ilansgroove]

Congratz with the fader fox. That's a device on my "to-do" list!

i love it

made my tweaking all more enjoyable and easier

 

[IronSpatula]

For the next pedal in the line of the Spectrum and the Ultrawave I think it would be nice to have a (four voice) pitch shifting/harmonizer pedal. Maybe combined with a delay or ring mod/bitcrusher or something. Would love to see SA’s take on that. I think such a pedal is still missing in the SA arsenal. What do you think?

Come on man, I just bought a POG2!

Seriously though, it could be cool to have those capabilities plus more traditional types of modulation in the same pedal. Like an option to modulate a parallel signal at the same pitch OR at a harmonized pitch.