Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

[Corey Y]

Honestly your exploration in to surf rock makes me wish I could start that band with you. I have done some recording dates recently, but have not played with a full band in a bit. Starting to wear on me, and I have had zero luck fielding anything. All the responses I get are for horrible tired classic rock cover bands. Not even earners, but basement rock stars.

Thanks man, I'm pretty much in the same position. The only responses I ever get are for unpaid cover bands, 12 bar blues and nu metal. Which is apparently a type of music people still play. I'm super into the surf rock stuff, I haven't had much time to practice and write more lately though. I will say I managed to get interested in the one genre that's less popular and harder to find people to play than this. I'm a glutton for punishment.

 

[Turkeypills]

Turn up the gain on that pre amp. Turn it up until you see that red light flicker, then you will have a lot more travel on your master. Ampeg pre amps need that pre gain up to get real output. That is part of why the SVT-3pro is considered underpowered, no one wanted to run the pre hot enough. Another thing to consider is the response of the cab and the pre amps used. The Dually doesnt have any massive spikes. The K140's do, so your ear hears that spike and goes, "FUQ this is loud" Put them on a meter measuring output at 80 hz, and it will be a different story. The EQ on the pre amp can help all that, but it is actually more difficult than it sounds to balance two different eq's, let alone the rest of the signal chain.

Honestly it is harder to get that clip than you might think. I tried diming it the other day and I could barely touch the master without it being brutally loud. Also causing the power amp clip lights to flicker like crazy. I will go back and try it again though.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Thanks man, I'm pretty much in the same position. The only responses I ever get are for unpaid cover bands, 12 bar blues and nu metal. Which is apparently a type of music people still play. I'm super into the surf rock stuff, I haven't had much time to practice and write more lately though. I will say I managed to get interested in the one genre that's less popular and harder to find people to play than this. I'm a glutton for punishment.

I have been learning guitar, that is how I have been dealing with it. I could allways power chord around, but now im working through actually learning the instrument. Has made my bass playing better, I see chord tones a lot easier now. M, m, M7, m7, sus chords are now easier for me to play bass to.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Honestly it is harder to get that clip than you might think. I tried diming it the other day and I could barely touch the master without it being brutally loud. Also causing the power amp clip lights to flicker like crazy. I will go back and try it again though.

Just saying there may be a better balance in your signal chain for output.

 

[Corey Y]

I have been learning guitar, that is how I have been dealing with it. I could allways power chord around, but now im working through actually learning the instrument. Has made my bass playing better, I see chord tones a lot easier now. M, m, M7, m7, sus chords are now easier for me to play bass to.

That's why I started getting into the surf rock stuff. I can play guitar, but similarly have stuck with only knuckle dragger power chord stuff forever, because I didn't need to do much else. Playing mostly clean (and kind of fast, ideally), with single notes and barre chords is pretty challenging. I need to practice a lot more, just to record the one song I did I had to cut together about every 4 bars and it was still pretty choppy. I need to start making more time to practice, I've been doing that a little bit in the early morning before work. Getting up multiple times a night to deal with a toddler makes getting up early a lot more rough now though. I'm kind of an early bird, I used to wake up at 5-5:30 AM without an alarm, go for a walk, cook breakfast, work out and play music or do some recording/mixing before work in the past. Now I get up, shower, get dressed, sometimes eat and get to work by 7:30. Sometimes I get up a little early and I have time to practice guitar or something, if I'm on the ball.

 

[CL400Peavey]

That's why I started getting into the surf rock stuff. I can play guitar, but similarly have stuck with only knuckle dragger power chord stuff forever, because I didn't need to do much else. Playing mostly clean (and kind of fast, ideally), with single notes and barre chords is pretty challenging. I need to practice a lot more, just to record the one song I did I had to cut together about every 4 bars and it was still pretty choppy. I need to start making more time to practice, I've been doing that a little bit in the early morning before work. Getting up multiple times a night to deal with a toddler makes getting up early a lot more rough now though. I'm kind of an early bird, I used to wake up at 5-5:30 AM without an alarm, go for a walk, cook breakfast, work out and play music or do some recording/mixing before work in the past. Now I get up, shower, get dressed, sometimes eat and get to work by 7:30. Sometimes I get up a little early and I have time to practice guitar or something, if I'm on the ball.

Yeah my knowledge far surpasses my actual guitar ability. I know if I take a grand barre and drop or add notes what kind of chord I get. Just getting them on the fly some times is very difficult. It probably doesnt help that every other time I go to practice it is on a different guitar. I have my Tele at home, and it is fine, but I enjoy the slew of gibsons. I know the guitar doesnt make the player, but I sound better on a birdland than I do on a telecaster.

 

[Corey Y]

Yeah my knowledge far surpasses my actual guitar ability. I know if I take a grand barre and drop or add notes what kind of chord I get. Just getting them on the fly some times is very difficult. It probably doesnt help that every other time I go to practice it is on a different guitar. I have my Tele at home, and it is fine, but I enjoy the slew of gibsons. I know the guitar doesnt make the player, but I sound better on a birdland than I do on a telecaster.

Some players just fit better with different types of guitars. I tried to do Gibsons for a long time, they were and sort of still are my aesthetic preference, but I play better on Fenders.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Some players just fit better with different types of guitars. I tried to do Gibsons for a long time, they were and sort of still are my aesthetic preference, but I play better on Fenders.

I dont care what anyone says, the most doom guitar I have ever heard is the ES-339 Trad Pro with the internal gain boost and coil taps. Tap the bridge, humbucker at the neck, 10db boost on, both pick ups. It is a doom monster. Just looks like a jazz guitar.

 

[Corey Y]

Any of you guys have experience with EMG 45P pickups? I'm never using my Drake Custom lately because the Nordstrand DC pickups just don't really get me to my tone of preference. It's routed for 35 size pickups, so that's about the only option I can think of to get there. I really wish I had just gotten it built with a P or a PJ, at the time I figured if I was going custom I should try something different and it was a nice though in theory. It's making me consider selling the bass, which breaks my heart because it's the nicest instrument I own or have owned. In a perfect world I would keep it and have Andrew make me another with my preferred pickups or at worst sell it and then do that, but there's no way in hell that's happening in my current financial situation.

 

[dozicusmaximus]

Yo yo yo!

I just opened this thread. Do yall have any comments?

Hey, Pbass freaks!

 

[Bassic Playing]

I dont care what anyone says, the most doom guitar I have ever heard is the ES-339 Trad Pro with the internal gain boost and coil taps. Tap the bridge, humbucker at the neck, 10db boost on, both pick ups. It is a doom monster. Just looks like a jazz guitar.

Pepper from COC and Down plays a 335 and he sounds pretty doom, so no argument here. Don't know if I could handle the feedback though.

 

[dcarwin]

... curious about other tube amps that bring that kind of low end and sheer volume.

Mesa

 

[Turkeypills]

Mesa

I've been filled with intrigue about the prodigy/strategy amps since I first saw them. From what I've heard my concerns are that it is overrated powerwise and that its a bit too modern sounding with a pretty sparkly high end. My other concerns are the cost down the road of retubing that thing. 6x6550s is bad enough, but 8?

I may have a change of opinion down the road, but I'd have to play one and that doesn't seem likely. Our local GCs carry a bunch of nothing but acoustic and markbass with the occasional V4B reissue. They don't even carry but maybe one or two boogie amps in the guitar section.

 

[dcarwin]

I've been filled with intrigue about the prodigy/strategy amps since I first saw them. From what I've heard my concerns are that it is overrated powerwise and that its a bit too modern sounding with a pretty sparkly high end. My other concerns are the cost down the road of retubing that thing. 6x6550s is bad enough, but 8?

I may have a change of opinion down the road, but I'd have to play one and that doesn't seem likely. Our local GCs carry a bunch of nothing but acoustic and markbass with the occasional V4B reissue. They don't even carry but maybe one or two boogie amps in the guitar section.

Yeah I was surprised to only see the new Mesas listed, I was actually trying to suggest the 400 but I guess it's no longer made?

 

[The_Janitor]

I've been filled with intrigue about the prodigy/strategy amps since I first saw them. From what I've heard my concerns are that it is overrated powerwise and that its a bit too modern sounding with a pretty sparkly high end. My other concerns are the cost down the road of retubing that thing. 6x6550s is bad enough, but 8?

I may have a change of opinion down the road, but I'd have to play one and that doesn't seem likely. Our local GCs carry a bunch of nothing but acoustic and markbass with the occasional V4B reissue. They don't even carry but maybe one or two boogie amps in the guitar section.

I would hope that with the sweepable mid and graphic EQ you'd be able to dial up pretty much whatever tone you want out of those newer Mesa tube heads. We have a Strategy on display at work, but I've never tried it out.

 

[Turkeypills]

@kleinenenten @Ender_rpm

There is a local guy with a fully functional all OG flat back 1970 810 for $500. I was trying to trade him those two peavey 215s but I don't think he is going to bite. Not sure if you guys are interested in a holy grail 810 or if you have any trade bait he'd be into.

 

[Blank_0101]

Pepper from COC and Down plays a 335 and he sounds pretty doom, so no argument here. Don't know if I could handle the feedback though.

335 is solid on the inside where it counts.

 

[kleinenenten]

@kleinenenten @Ender_rpm

There is a local guy with a fully functional all OG flat back 1970 810 for $500. I was trying to trade him those two peavey 215s but I don't think he is going to bite. Not sure if you guys are interested in a holy grail 810 or if you have any trade bait he'd be into.

Nah. Thanks for the heads up, though.

 

[kleinenenten]

112 will definitely be quieter than the 4x10.

Right, but quiet enough to make wife happy? (Do those EXIST?)

 

[Korladis]

Don't think you need an account to buy something. Or if you do, it's a really easy process to get set up.

Rad. Definitely thinking about it. What I really want is a white 4003S or 4001S (without the binding, dot inlays), but those are rare as hen's teeth it seems like. The one on Reverb is white with black binding, but a white pickguard, TRC, and chrome hardware. I have enough money for it... but I wonder if I should just hold out for what I really want.

Drums come through fine. In fact I can usually only hear drums and lead guitar. The only time I can clearly hear our second guitar is when lead cuts out entirely. His sound is faint when lead is taking a solo. It is honestly way too loud. I mean I love way too loud, don't mistake me there. If I had my way though, we would run full stacks for larger stages and half stacks for smaller stages and I would use two or one cabs respectively. I haven't had the pleasure of seeing Bongripper live but I'd imagine our volume is of a similar level guitar-wise. I am not currently running a 3kW rig like Ron is though.

The ironic thing is that I suggested using full stacks instead of dual half stacks for the larger stage we normally play. Lead player/ band leader shot down the idea because when his speakers are at ear level its too loud for him and he can't hear well enough to sing. It's stupid really.

Mainly, as much as I love my SVP/Prolite rig, I am more fond of the tube thing. The Prolites are loud indeed but I am not exaggerating when I say my 2000s is easily louder than 870w from the prolite. In fact the 2000s is louder with more low end through my K140 loaded 215s than the prolite into the dually. I am always trying to tweak my tone to find a point where I can just leave it. The struggle is lack of low end and be heard or have the booty moving bass but without ANY definition. The other issue is I am never able to run my full rig at rehearsals due to space limitations so I can't ever really dial it in the way I'd like to. This is the last time I will be playing in a two guitar metal band. Ever. It's just a pain in the ass.

This is my decided game plan. I'm going to call sweetwater and see if they can match or better the $1500 Blonde bassman on MF. Then I am going to call MF and see if they can beat that number or offer an additional discount. If either of those things happen, I am going to jump on the bassman. If they don't or I can't get either place low enough I will order a second dually. However it goes I'll be happy and I can always look for the other down the road but this is going to be my last big purchase for a long time. I gotta pay some debt off and focus on other priorities for a while, plus I'm looking for a new place to live by August.

Live with two duallies, my rig will go as follows. Smaller stages, dually vertical stack. I'm not sure if I'll run them at 1500w at 2 ohms or 870w a piece stereo. For larger stages I'm bringing both duallies and my 810 with the 810 laying in its side and the duallies stacked on top. Duallies running at 2 ohms and the 810 getting 870 from channel B.

With the SB, it would be either the 810 for small stages or 810/dually for big stages at 2 ohms.

I'm in a three guitar (sometimes two guitar and keyboards) metal band right now. The D-180 does fine, but my sound is an overdriven low midrange spike.

Also, when they're not in Chicago, live Bongripper uses backlined gear. When I saw them, they used Goya's and Chrch's gear (mostly Peavey).

Part of it might come down to how the two amps are using their power. 1st, as I think I've mentioned, the 2000s isn't really a 120w amp when compared to most other MI amps. It's more around 200w if rated with similar standards as most bass amp manufacturers use. So combine the fact that it is louder than what we might generally think a 120w amp can normally be, and that the prolite might not really be pushing close to 870w constantly (often times manufacturers will tryto push that number by greatly reducing the frequency range and upping the distortion tolerance), and they end up being a lot closer in power than we might think. Additionally, I don't think the 2000s put outs much super low power, whereas the prolite probably does. What I'm getting at here is that the 2000s puts more of its power into what would be a useful frequency range, while the prolite expends more power pushing super lows. This could translate into the 2000s maybe seeming to be louder, since the prolite is using so much more of its available output to push that low end. At least, those would be my thoughts as to why the 2000s might seem louder.

Indeed. The 2000S is a "120 watt" amp, but that power rating is at like 1% THD or something. I have little doubt that if you put a 2000S up against an Orange AD200B, the Sunn would be the louder amp.

Sadly, not quite there yet. 3 heads, but only 3 cabs. One cab is disassembled at the moment (my original clone cab) and one speaker needs some work. The 2 Sunn cabs run fine, one with Ds and the other with Ks. Then there's two 1x15s that have Es in them. I just don't have the space at the moment to stash any more cabs. If I wasn't working on paying of student loans and sold some gear, I'd be tempted to buy the full 2000s rig on reverb just to further my goal. Alternatively, I'm played around with the idea of getting two Acoustic 360 cabs, so as to have the rig of 1 full 2000s rig to push the mids and highs and crunch, and another 2000s run into the 360s for the low end. Not that I'd ever be able to properly UTILIZE that rig, but I think it'd be a cool idea.



Horde is such a loaded word. I prefer collect with extreme prejudice.

Ha. What happened to the speaker?

I trust you and after hearing many a Corey riff, consider you a sensei of tone. That said I'd have to hear two duallies against two full stacks being impractically loud to be a full believer. Maybe I have just trashed me ears to low frequencies but I've always heard it's the highs that are lost first.




Hording regarding 2000s amps should be a term of endearment.


I just fired up the rig and used the settings pictured below. I had a compressor and a UD with gain and volume at 9 o clock and tone at 1:30. It was loud enough to ring the bell in my doorbell(it wasn't anyone at my door), open the doors of my TV stand and shake my BDPG off of said stand. No power amp clipping. I pushed the pre gain to noon and got clipping. Still didn't really hear speaker distress, but if the flanger was on those LEDs would be glowing. I need to put that thing in a blend loop to save the speakers. Note: for the argument of boosting treble or mids for more cut, I am getting A LOT of high end right now due to the response from the faitals. Any more treble and it has a brittle top end and crazy feedback. As for the mids, I had them boosted more before but it was costing low end.

It was VERY loud, but that's without guitars present. It was louder than I'd ever consider in any other band arrangement, but I'm skeptical about its application in Valley. @D.M.N. It still didn't have the low end of the 2000s but may have been louder. I've been toying with much less gain than usual and I've gotten more volume and lows but I feel like less cut through. My dog left the room and came back as I was finishing up. She sat on the chair and looked at me with an expression that can only be personified as "What the **** dude".

I'm not disappointed at all with my choice to go the dually route despite my issues I have been describing. My guitarists create a unique set of hurdles for me as a bassist and I think extreme rig setup is absolutely necessary to compete. The Dually delivers but I think my issues are complicated by my fear of blowing speakers in such an expensive cab.


View attachment 801870

That's an awfully low gain setting for an Ampeg.

You know the little light doesn't mean "OMG, YOU'RE CLIPPING! STAAAHHHP!" right? On Ampegs it's more like "You now have adequate gain."

God damnit Corey, I want to hang out with you IRL.

You should. When I met him, the main reason we didn't talk about gear for hours it seemed like was that he had family responsibilities.

Thanks man, I'm pretty much in the same position. The only responses I ever get are for unpaid cover bands, 12 bar blues and nu metal. Which is apparently a type of music people still play. I'm super into the surf rock stuff, I haven't had much time to practice and write more lately though. I will say I managed to get interested in the one genre that's less popular and harder to find people to play than this. I'm a glutton for punishment.

Nu metal is still a thing? What? Do guitarists in your area all think it's 2002?

Yeah my knowledge far surpasses my actual guitar ability. I know if I take a grand barre and drop or add notes what kind of chord I get. Just getting them on the fly some times is very difficult. It probably doesnt help that every other time I go to practice it is on a different guitar. I have my Tele at home, and it is fine, but I enjoy the slew of gibsons. I know the guitar doesnt make the player, but I sound better on a birdland than I do on a telecaster.

Most of the stuff I write on guitar I have trouble playing, due to most if it involving barre chords and stuff like that. Not always, but often. I like those huge chords that use all the strings.

Some players just fit better with different types of guitars. I tried to do Gibsons for a long time, they were and sort of still are my aesthetic preference, but I play better on Fenders.

I'm the opposite. I find Gibson types way easier to play than Fenders. I guess my hands just work with them better.

I dont care what anyone says, the most doom guitar I have ever heard is the ES-339 Trad Pro with the internal gain boost and coil taps. Tap the bridge, humbucker at the neck, 10db boost on, both pick ups. It is a doom monster. Just looks like a jazz guitar.

I love when people play metal, especially doom, on guitars not usually seen as "metal" guitars.

Any of you guys have experience with EMG 45P pickups? I'm never using my Drake Custom lately because the Nordstrand DC pickups just don't really get me to my tone of preference. It's routed for 35 size pickups, so that's about the only option I can think of to get there. I really wish I had just gotten it built with a P or a PJ, at the time I figured if I was going custom I should try something different and it was a nice though in theory. It's making me consider selling the bass, which breaks my heart because it's the nicest instrument I own or have owned. In a perfect world I would keep it and have Andrew make me another with my preferred pickups or at worst sell it and then do that, but there's no way in hell that's happening in my current financial situation.

Why not just save up for custom pickups? Better than ditching a bass that's built specifically for you just cause of the pickups.

I've been filled with intrigue about the prodigy/strategy amps since I first saw them. From what I've heard my concerns are that it is overrated powerwise and that its a bit too modern sounding with a pretty sparkly high end. My other concerns are the cost down the road of retubing that thing. 6x6550s is bad enough, but 8?

I may have a change of opinion down the road, but I'd have to play one and that doesn't seem likely. Our local GCs carry a bunch of nothing but acoustic and markbass with the occasional V4B reissue. They don't even carry but maybe one or two boogie amps in the guitar section.

It's rated at like 5-7% THD, which I suppose is cheating a little.

The Prodigy has a sparkly top end that I don't like. The Strategy does not. They're not the same preamp with a different power section, they are actually different amps. The Prodigy is considerably brighter and more modern sounding, and as a result, its preamp overdrive isn't nearly as good. The Strategy is beastly. If I don't buy that Rickenbacker on Reverb, I'm going to get one.

Also, of course you haven't seen them at GC. It's not a Mesa dealer.