Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

[hardtop]

I'm in a slightly different place. If I didn't want people I didn't like listening to my music, no one would be listening to my music.

Well, yeah, I mean, that's true for me too. Haha.

Your assessment of how metal has change is pretty accurate, especially the anti-war sentiment: War Pigs, Symphony of Destruction, Disposable Heroes, One, the Trooper, Blackened etc. Considering a lot of that output came during the cold war the threat of nuclear holocaust could have motivated the intense anti (nuclear) war focus. And then there are songs like Indians, and Run to the Hills, and People of the Lie which are about human rights and racism. I'm not much of a fan but it seems like about half of Sepultura's songs were anti-racism or war (and RATM and SOAD)
Anyway... Art reflects life, I guess.

 

[lucas303]

Are you guys just talking about the more popular, bigger names bands? Because there are certainly smaller bands these days who still engage some of those sorts of topics.

 

[DJCalamari]

We've discussed things that have become so cliche in the genre that we should have a moratorium on them. The use of witch, wizard, goat, or mountain in a band\album name. Half naked women, or pointless boobage on album covers. Stuff like that.

I'll give you the exception to the rule (not really metal, but a song about metal):

 

[socialleper]

Are you guys just talking about the more popular, bigger names bands? Because there are certainly smaller bands these days who still engage some of those sorts of topics.

Big is relative, of course. A band like Sleep is the biggest thing in the stoner\doom world, but nearly invisible to normies. All metal bands in the world except maybe Metallica are "smaller" bands when compared to the music industry as a whole.
Ironically, I recently read James Hetfield saying Metallica isn't a political band. Apparently he forgot the lyrics to a dozen songs he wrote on their first 5 albums.
Aaaanyway, when I look at the lyrics for most stoner\doom bands, big and small (within the context of the genre) the lyrics aren't too issue\reality oriented. Unless there are hidden meanings I'm not getting. Some of it is great story telling, or creative satires that use weed puns. But I don't recall a lot of songs digging into sexual assault, environmental decay, race relations, etc. At best you might get something like a nihilist Cathedral song about working yourself to death in a rat race in the name of consumerism.

 

[bassboysam]

esuch a huge part of the stoner/doom scene is about trying to prove your band is way more stoned than anyone else


the lyrics, and in a lot of cases the music, are supposed to show everyone how high the band is . stoners are not likely going to want to address social, political or economic issues and stoned listeners probably don't want to hear it...maaan


i feel like so many bands are trying to get the "how high must they have been when they wrote this" reaction. unfortunately the end product suffers, lacks creativity. i've said it before, the genre has become a bit of a joke and a caricature of itself.

 

[socialleper]

esuch a huge part of the stoner/doom scene is about trying to prove your band is way more stoned than anyone else


the lyrics, and in a lot of cases the music, are supposed to show everyone how high the band is . stoners are not likely going to want to address social, political or economic issues and stoned listeners probably don't want to hear it...maaan


i feel like so many bands are trying to get the "how high must they have been when they wrote this" reaction. unfortunately the end product suffers, lacks creativity. i've said it before, the genre has become a bit of a joke and a caricature of itself.

And yet I find myself liking it. Maybe because in some ways many bands are just good rock and roll. There are a few that push the musical boundaries as well. Yes, like much of music, I find myself only liking 1 out of 10 bands, but I really dig the ones that catch my attention.
Lost of wasted potential.

 

[bassboysam]

And yet I find myself liking it. Maybe because in some ways many bands are just good rock and roll. There are a few that push the musical boundaries as well. Yes, like much of music, I find myself only liking 1 out of 10 bands, but I really dig the ones that catch my attention.
Lost of wasted potential.

i think my ratio is 1 out of 20 now, only because I already own the same album just performed by another band for the other 19.

 

[hardtop]

I'll give you the exception to the rule (not really metal, but a song about metal):

my drummer is from denton...sadly not named jeff or cyrus

 

[cornfarmer]

U. of N. Texas alumni? Ol' buddy of mine went there for his music degree, extra fine drummer.

 

[StayLow]

Lost of wasted potential.

Same as any genre, at every level.

Every scene eventually collapses under the weight of its own self-parody. Grunge didn't kill glam "metal", the bands themsevles did. Once an "edgy" rapper like Eminem does duets with Sir Elton on the Grammys then tries a comeback by being about the 40th rapper that year to attack the president of the country, who is already the most popular target of every multi-millionaire mainstream tv host and Oscar/etc. recipient's speech, well there goes the supposed underground credo and edge.

It all gets tired. Like the "satanic" bands slagging a certain religion and its figurehead. Oh wow, how brave. *Yawwwwnn*. Last time I watched the news, it was a different "religion" invading, destroying cultures, and committing mass-murder nonstop across the globe the past 1400 years, but I don't hear any albums about that. No album covers mocking them or their figurehead. The "anti-religion / satanic" tough guys are too busy applying make-up, dressing up fancy and dying their hair I guess, and writing lyrics of no consequence at all, ironically just like the "poseur" glam-metallers.

Most in any genre are generic, especially any genre that catches some of the spotlight for awhile.

 

[hardtop]

U. of N. Texas alumni? Ol' buddy of mine went there for his music degree, extra fine drummer.

he did go to north texas! but alas, not for music: he has a masters in technical writing. haha. small world, but not that small!

 

[lucas303]

Big is relative, of course. A band like Sleep is the biggest thing in the stoner\doom world, but nearly invisible to normies. All metal bands in the world except maybe Metallica are "smaller" bands when compared to the music industry as a whole.
Ironically, I recently read James Hetfield saying Metallica isn't a political band. Apparently he forgot the lyrics to a dozen songs he wrote on their first 5 albums.
Aaaanyway, when I look at the lyrics for most stoner\doom bands, big and small (within the context of the genre) the lyrics aren't too issue\reality oriented. Unless there are hidden meanings I'm not getting. Some of it is great story telling, or creative satires that use weed puns. But I don't recall a lot of songs digging into sexual assault, environmental decay, race relations, etc. At best you might get something like a nihilist Cathedral song about working yourself to death in a rat race in the name of consumerism.

Sorry I thought the discussion had expanded beyond just stoner/doom bands. Your points are well taken.

 

[socialleper]

Sorry I thought the discussion had expanded beyond just stoner/doom bands. Your points are well taken.

I personally see cowardice in writing across all genres, but it applies to doom\stoner as well. I suppose you could make the argument that the lyrical goals of the genre were never that lofty to begin with. If you set Sleep and Electric Wizard as the standard, then there you go.
I'll get off it.
My original point was that bands need to stop putting Vincent Price clips in their songs.

 

[br1qbat]

As a side point, I don't necessarily agree with the thought that musicians have an obligation to crusade for moral causes or strike back against 'the man' or whatever.

Art can be a comment on the world, BUT, it doesn't have to be. By the same token, if art does comment on the world, be prepared for it to not always agree with your worldview.

 

[br1qbat]

Same as any genre, at every level.

Every scene eventually collapses under the weight of its own self-parody. Grunge didn't kill glam "metal", the bands themsevles did. Once an "edgy" rapper like Eminem does duets with Sir Elton on the Grammys then tries a comeback by being about the 40th rapper that year to attack the president of the country, who is already the most popular target of every multi-millionaire mainstream tv host and Oscar/etc. recipient's speech, well there goes the supposed underground credo and edge.

It all gets tired. Like the "satanic" bands slagging a certain religion and its figurehead. Oh wow, how brave. *Yawwwwnn*. Last time I watched the news, it was a different "religion" invading, destroying cultures, and committing mass-murder nonstop across the globe the past 1400 years, but I don't hear any albums about that. No album covers mocking them or their figurehead. The "anti-religion / satanic" tough guys are too busy applying make-up, dressing up fancy and dying their hair I guess, and writing lyrics of no consequence at all, ironically just like the "poseur" glam-metallers.

Most in any genre are generic, especially any genre that catches some of the spotlight for awhile.

Without taking this too far afield, I agree with your sentiment.

And all I'll say about religion (without drawing the ire of the mods) is that if one is a student of history, religious violence is common to just about every -ism there is.

 

[socialleper]

As a side point, I don't necessarily agree with the thought that musicians have an obligation to crusade for moral causes or strike back against 'the man' or whatever.

Art can be a comment on the world, BUT, it doesn't have to be. By the same token, if art does comment on the world, be prepared for it to not always agree with your worldview.

Understood. If a band gets preachy people don't want to hear it.

 

[socialleper]

To jump off from the last discussion:
When I was growing up I, like most kids, had more time to really digest every new album I bought. Because a tape or CD (I was sort of post-vinyl) was $10-$15, which was a lot more in the late 80s and early 90s, I couldn't just go out and buy a new release every week. I would read the lyrics while listening, and knew them back and forth.
Does anyone take that sort of time with the lyrics of new releases any more? Does the digital and consumable nature of music today impact people reading the lyrics? Do you think that if people aren't reading the lyrics it doesn't push the writers to put a massive amount of originality into the lyrics?

 

[Jolagh]

To jump off from the last discussion:
When I was growing up I, like most kids, had more time to really digest every new album I bought. Because a tape or CD (I was sort of post-vinyl) was $10-$15, which was a lot more in the late 80s and early 90s, I couldn't just go out and buy a new release every week. I would read the lyrics while listening, and knew them back and forth.
Does anyone take that sort of time with the lyrics of new releases any more? Does the digital and consumable nature of music today impact people reading the lyrics? Do you think that if people aren't reading the lyrics it doesn't push the writers to put a massive amount of originality into the lyrics?

I think that the way people in general digest music now is much different than it was back then. Though im not sure if this has a major impact on quality of lyrics. I think some of what you are noticing is probably more related to the lesser importance of producers and labels in music today. Bands can reach broader audiences without having major label or producer influences so maybe id say its more of a situation where the filters arent there to edit and make sure the lyrics are good. Its more straight to consumer.
As well as since its so much easier to find music now you have to sift through a bunch of music that isnt necessarily good in the first place. Anyone with 20 bucks can use distrokid to release music on all the major platforms.

 

[StayLow]

Without taking this too far afield, I agree with your sentiment.

And all I'll say about religion (without drawing the ire of the mods) is that if one is a student of history, religious violence is common to just about every -ism there is.

True, however few - if more than one - outright command it and have a figurehead that revelled in it while setting the "perfect" example. Few - if more than one - are widely prolific at it during the past century or more.

My point was that it may be valid to rail against things that happened centuries before an artist was even born. Maybe it had a significant impact on the artist's native culture which affected said artist while growing up, or even in adulthood somehow, so it's understandable if they have something to say about it.

It's disingenuous however to claim to be vehemently "anti" something as the very foundation of your band's existence and image, and act all tough while picking on the most tired and weakest example over and over that you know cannot and won't fight back and poses zero threat rather than decry the one that's actively slapping you in the face.

This isn't about religion, it's simply the most utterly stark example I can think of to illustrate the sheep-like cowardice and hypocrisy germane to the broader lyrical discussion.

 

[lucas303]

To jump off from the last discussion:
When I was growing up I, like most kids, had more time to really digest every new album I bought. Because a tape or CD (I was sort of post-vinyl) was $10-$15, which was a lot more in the late 80s and early 90s, I couldn't just go out and buy a new release every week. I would read the lyrics while listening, and knew them back and forth.
Does anyone take that sort of time with the lyrics of new releases any more? Does the digital and consumable nature of music today impact people reading the lyrics? Do you think that if people aren't reading the lyrics it doesn't push the writers to put a massive amount of originality into the lyrics?

I'm in pretty much the same boat as you. While I still buy physical releases (CDs, mostly), I rip them to my network storage and then play them from that, so 99% of the time I don't have the liner notes in front of me. What's been really great is the lyric show component for foobar2000. With that I can have the lyrics for most releases scrolling through in real time on my TV while I'm playing music. Even with that, though, I still don't know the lyrics to music I like as much as I used to.

So yeah, I do think the nature of modern music listening impacts reading the lyrics, but I really only base that on my own experience. As for whether people reading the lyrics pushes the writers, maybe I'm an idealist but I think/hope most of the people who write the music I listen to are writing for themselves as much as anyone else, so whether some percentage of the fans will not read the lyrics shouldn't be a factor in their songwriting. Maybe that has happened but if so I haven't heard of it.