Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

[themarshall]

Long shot - anybody know the difference between a standard Pharaoh Fuzz and the Russian spec ones? Tempted to buy a cheap clone and mod it to Russian spec, assuming it’s a simple cap swap or something. The Russian spec ones sound great in the few demos I’ve heard. Maybe also diode swap or something. MOSFET clipping possibly.

Big Muff Pi Versions and Schematics

Pharaoh covered towards the bottom. Whole site is a buttload of mufformation.

 

[kleinenenten]

Big Muff Pi Versions and Schematics

Pharaoh covered towards the bottom. Whole site is a buttload of mufformation.

So much of that is over my head...

I just wonder if I could take a Pharaoh clone, swap a cap or two, and have a “Russian” take. I could get a pre-built clone right now for just over half of the Russian Pharaoh (also pre-built) and have done simple cap swaps in the past.

 

[Novarocker]

Yeah that's a crazy bit of reading. Never realized how many variations of each iteration there were. It seems like cap/resistor values are some of the main differences that and what type of diodes or IC op amps. I think you may be able to, but I'm far from an expert.

 

[themarshall]

BIG MUFF TRANSISTORS AND OTHER COMPONENTS

Essentially, yes. Swap some caps, maybe fiddle with tone stack. Plan on the research taking a LOT longer than the soldering bits.

 

[lucas303]

No, it's really not. Just because you don't know whats happening on a daily basis does not mean the world is fine. It's about as far from fine as it's been in my 44 years here, and according to my grandmother, about as un-shagging-fine as its been for most of hers (this woman lived through WW2 and raised children during Vietnam). It's your choice to put on the blinders, but don't be fooled; time doesn't stand still because you're not on instagram. (I'm a zero social media person myself).

I think you missed my point. That just means I should've done a better job of making my point, though.

George Carlin once said, “The Earth will shake us off like a bad case of fleas.”

This ^

 

[lucas303]

Honestly I like talkbass being my non-political safe space. Im getting blasted with peoples opinions from all directions on every other website, its nice to come here and just chill with the bass bros.

We are finally to the mastering phase for our album and im pumped on it. Hopefully before too long we will be able to release it.
On that does anyone here have much experience in shopping around for a distribution deal with indy labels. Any youd recommend?

This is something I'm completely ignorant about so I'm curious: in this day and age, what does a label bring to the table? You could release your stuff through Bandcamp, order shirts to be printed, but I'm probably missing something.

 

[lucas303]

As I continue to bombard this thread (sorry!), does anyone have tips for finding artists to do logos and the like? I've reached out to a few bands whose logo art I like to ask who did it, but have gotten exactly zero responses. When I tried Googling I just got a bunch of BS. Am I just out of luck for not being cool enough to know the right people?

 

[br1qbat]

As I continue to bombard this thread (sorry!), does anyone have tips for finding artists to do logos and the like? I've reached out to a few bands whose logo art I like to ask who did it, but have gotten exactly zero responses. When I tried Googling I just got a bunch of BS. Am I just out of luck for not being cool enough to know the right people?

Instagram! I have a few I follow. PM me

 

[hardtop]

There

As I continue to bombard this thread (sorry!), does anyone have tips for finding artists to do logos and the like? I've reached out to a few bands whose logo art I like to ask who did it, but have gotten exactly zero responses. When I tried Googling I just got a bunch of BS. Am I just out of luck for not being cool enough to know the right people?

There is a Colorado guy who does amazing logos and art work. His name is Sam Turner. I know he stays pretty busy which may affect his willingness to take on new work and.or price structure, but, in the past his prices have always been reasonable. I believe he has instagram and Facebook, either of which may be a good way to reach out to him to start. If you're interested, and he doesn't reply in a reasonable amount of time, hit me up via PM.

 

[hardtop]

This is something I'm completely ignorant about so I'm curious: in this day and age, what does a label bring to the table? You could release your stuff through Bandcamp, order shirts to be printed, but I'm probably missing something.

At the end of the day, it depends on what you want to do with your band. But, generally speaking, a label brings Money; for professional recording, production of a physical release, PR, and distribution deals. Also name recognition of the label counts. Some people check out everything Metal Blade puts out, or Relapse, or Nuclear Blast. Especially for underground music, label loyalties, however how small, can matter to an underground band. Anyway, this money and name recognition hopefully means your band is heard by more people. If that is your bands goal, a label can make sense.
As far as recording, yes, many people can make good recordings at home or on a budget. But there is another level of engineering, mixing, producing, and mastering that a real seasoned professional can attain that most basement recordings can't.
Physical production, in some circles, is a big deal. In non-mainstream rock/metal it continues to be a large part of sales. Take me, for example: I buy and listen to records. I expect the bands I like to have one. Ill support them if they don't, but many people still buy physical media. We sell a decent amount of cd's when we're in Europe (and in the US to a lesser degree).
PR matters. You can generally hire this out, but your budget will definitely affect how much work they do on your behalf. Many labels have internal PR too. The professional PR relationships to get your album reviewed or to set up a podcast take time to form. It's hard to gain access if you don't have these relationships. Getting a simple review on a blog, good or bad, can really help move a band along.
I guess advertising is kind of part of PR too? The budget for getting your new release advertised in a magazine isn't something most bands can pony up the cash for; but even small labels can usually justify some expenditure along those lines. I read Decibel magazine every month and I look at the ads for what has just come out and what labels are pushing. I know I'm not the only one.
Distribution deals are big for getting your stuff out there. Distributors will often even handle streaming services too. The streaming thing, beyond bandcamp, is something that can be done without a label, but it sure makes it easier. Also the royalties for streaming are so negligible that what ever cut the label/distro might take is inconsequential ( if your not getting millions of listens). For physical media, it is really hard to get a record store in another city. Stores rely on distributors to fill their racks; they don't go to bandcamp or even to the labels themselves, to buy their product. Heck, even in Denver, most places will try to consign a local bands record, but will sometimes buy it direct from their distributors?

All of this is essentially a loan from the label to the band. The cost of that loan is that the band usually doesn't make poopie off album sales in the short term, and, let's be honest, probably not in the long term either. It's a sacrifice a lot of bands are willing to make to get their music heard by a larger audience. There are some small/DIY-ish labels out there that really help bands and give them a fair deal... they are few and far between but they do exist. I'm not defending or advocating for being with a label or not, it's definitely not right or required for everyone... but they can bring some stuff to the proverbial table.

 

[bassboysam]

just like bands, there are good labels and not so good. i know 2 good local bands that are both on labels, it did nothing for them, and my band with no label support sold more records and made more money than them.

 

[lucas303]

At the end of the day, it depends on what you want to do with your band. But, generally speaking, a label brings Money; for professional recording, production of a physical release, PR, and distribution deals. Also name recognition of the label counts. Some people check out everything Metal Blade puts out, or Relapse, or Nuclear Blast. Especially for underground music, label loyalties, however how small, can matter to an underground band. Anyway, this money and name recognition hopefully means your band is heard by more people. If that is your bands goal, a label can make sense.
As far as recording, yes, many people can make good recordings at home or on a budget. But there is another level of engineering, mixing, producing, and mastering that a real seasoned professional can attain that most basement recordings can't.
Physical production, in some circles, is a big deal. In non-mainstream rock/metal it continues to be a large part of sales. Take me, for example: I buy and listen to records. I expect the bands I like to have one. Ill support them if they don't, but many people still buy physical media. We sell a decent amount of cd's when we're in Europe (and in the US to a lesser degree).
PR matters. You can generally hire this out, but your budget will definitely affect how much work they do on your behalf. Many labels have internal PR too. The professional PR relationships to get your album reviewed or to set up a podcast take time to form. It's hard to gain access if you don't have these relationships. Getting a simple review on a blog, good or bad, can really help move a band along.
I guess advertising is kind of part of PR too? The budget for getting your new release advertised in a magazine isn't something most bands can pony up the cash for; but even small labels can usually justify some expenditure along those lines. I read Decibel magazine every month and I look at the ads for what has just come out and what labels are pushing. I know I'm not the only one.
Distribution deals are big for getting your stuff out there. Distributors will often even handle streaming services too. The streaming thing, beyond bandcamp, is something that can be done without a label, but it sure makes it easier. Also the royalties for streaming are so negligible that what ever cut the label/distro might take is inconsequential ( if your not getting millions of listens). For physical media, it is really hard to get a record store in another city. Stores rely on distributors to fill their racks; they don't go to bandcamp or even to the labels themselves, to buy their product. Heck, even in Denver, most places will try to consign a local bands record, but will sometimes buy it direct from their distributors?

All of this is essentially a loan from the label to the band. The cost of that loan is that the band usually doesn't make poopie off album sales in the short term, and, let's be honest, probably not in the long term either. It's a sacrifice a lot of bands are willing to make to get their music heard by a larger audience. There are some small/DIY-ish labels out there that really help bands and give them a fair deal... they are few and far between but they do exist. I'm not defending or advocating for being with a label or not, it's definitely not right or required for everyone... but they can bring some stuff to the proverbial table.

Thanks for the detailed response. I wasn't sure how much of this was still relevant in today's climate where people don't buy as much music as they used to (pre-Napster). I'd assume the vinyl resurgence has been a big help for labels/bands. I've never had any first-hand experience with this side of things, though...I've spent the vast majority of my life as someone who just listens to music.

I don't think any music I make will ever be of interest to any labels, so at least for myself I'll probably just throw it on Bandcamp and call it good. If people find it and like it, awesome. If not, no big deal.

 

[Novarocker]

As I continue to bombard this thread (sorry!), does anyone have tips for finding artists to do logos and the like? I've reached out to a few bands whose logo art I like to ask who did it, but have gotten exactly zero responses. When I tried Googling I just got a bunch of BS. Am I just out of luck for not being cool enough to know the right people?

A good buddy of mine does some rad art and was interested in doing some work for us before we went on a break. I thought I had his contact card saved with his site and whatnot. I'll shoot it to ya when I get home.

 

[hardtop]

Thanks for the detailed response. I wasn't sure how much of this was still relevant in today's climate where people don't buy as much music as they used to (pre-Napster). I'd assume the vinyl resurgence has been a big help for labels/bands. I've never had any first-hand experience with this side of things, though...I've spent the vast majority of my life as someone who just listens to music.

I don't think any music I make will ever be of interest to any labels, so at least for myself I'll probably just throw it on Bandcamp and call it good. If people find it and like it, awesome. If not, no big deal.

Right, it's all about your goals for you music.
The streaming for free thing definitely hurts labels (and bands alike) and has clearly diminished the need for them. I think the biggest advantage for a lot of bands is the labels ability to front the money for big ticket items. Struggling musician types usually can't pull the money together for a full fledged studio experience, let a lone PR and that sort of stuff. The perpetual college student, bartender, and pizza delivery guy seem to be popular jobs for the folks in the metal scene. Not exactly making the kind of scratch that affords you time with Steve Albini or something. And again, getting even 200 records pressed after shelling out money for album art and recording isn't something a lot of people have tucked away.
However, a studio and producer aren't necessary for a lot of bands. People are making really good recordings on their own. And, the internet fills a lot of gaps in terms of PR. Also, as you said, most people are unwilling to pay an artist for their music in by purchasing a physical copy of their album (or even paying for a download). Lastly, some labels are very predatory and can leave a band in a bad position if they sign the wrong offer. Lots of reasons to stay away.
I've released albums both ways, and both have their merits. With a label, we were able to get music out to a larger audience through PR, distribution, and name recognition; that created more and better opportunities and a more enjoyable overall band experience. Obviously there are bands with different or even opposite experiences.

 

[lucas303]

Right, it's all about your goals for you music.
The streaming for free thing definitely hurts labels (and bands alike) and has clearly diminished the need for them. I think the biggest advantage for a lot of bands is the labels ability to front the money for big ticket items. Struggling musician types usually can't pull the money together for a full fledged studio experience, let a lone PR and that sort of stuff. The perpetual college student, bartender, and pizza delivery guy seem to be popular jobs for the folks in the metal scene. Not exactly making the kind of scratch that affords you time with Steve Albini or something. And again, getting even 200 records pressed after shelling out money for album art and recording isn't something a lot of people have tucked away.
However, a studio and producer aren't necessary for a lot of bands. People are making really good recordings on their own. And, the internet fills a lot of gaps in terms of PR. Also, as you said, most people are unwilling to pay an artist for their music in by purchasing a physical copy of their album (or even paying for a download). Lastly, some labels are very predatory and can leave a band in a bad position if they sign the wrong offer. Lots of reasons to stay away.
I've released albums both ways, and both have their merits. With a label, we were able to get music out to a larger audience through PR, distribution, and name recognition; that created more and better opportunities and a more enjoyable overall band experience. Obviously there are bands with different or even opposite experiences.

I've had thoughts in the past about a not-for-profit label that could serve those same purposes for bands, but without trying to take advantage of the bands. Maybe such a thing already exists. At the end of the day, I wouldn't even have a clue about where to start, though.

 

[oZZma]

At the end of the day, it depends on what you want to do with your band. But, generally speaking, a label brings Money; for professional recording, production of a physical release, PR, and distribution deals. Also name recognition of the label counts. Some people check out everything Metal Blade puts out, or Relapse, or Nuclear Blast. Especially for underground music, label loyalties, however how small, can matter to an underground band. Anyway, this money and name recognition hopefully means your band is heard by more people. If that is your bands goal, a label can make sense.
As far as recording, yes, many people can make good recordings at home or on a budget. But there is another level of engineering, mixing, producing, and mastering that a real seasoned professional can attain that most basement recordings can't.
Physical production, in some circles, is a big deal. In non-mainstream rock/metal it continues to be a large part of sales. Take me, for example: I buy and listen to records. I expect the bands I like to have one. Ill support them if they don't, but many people still buy physical media. We sell a decent amount of cd's when we're in Europe (and in the US to a lesser degree).
PR matters. You can generally hire this out, but your budget will definitely affect how much work they do on your behalf. Many labels have internal PR too. The professional PR relationships to get your album reviewed or to set up a podcast take time to form. It's hard to gain access if you don't have these relationships. Getting a simple review on a blog, good or bad, can really help move a band along.
I guess advertising is kind of part of PR too? The budget for getting your new release advertised in a magazine isn't something most bands can pony up the cash for; but even small labels can usually justify some expenditure along those lines. I read Decibel magazine every month and I look at the ads for what has just come out and what labels are pushing. I know I'm not the only one.
Distribution deals are big for getting your stuff out there. Distributors will often even handle streaming services too. The streaming thing, beyond bandcamp, is something that can be done without a label, but it sure makes it easier. Also the royalties for streaming are so negligible that what ever cut the label/distro might take is inconsequential ( if your not getting millions of listens). For physical media, it is really hard to get a record store in another city. Stores rely on distributors to fill their racks; they don't go to bandcamp or even to the labels themselves, to buy their product. Heck, even in Denver, most places will try to consign a local bands record, but will sometimes buy it direct from their distributors?

All of this is essentially a loan from the label to the band. The cost of that loan is that the band usually doesn't make poopie off album sales in the short term, and, let's be honest, probably not in the long term either. It's a sacrifice a lot of bands are willing to make to get their music heard by a larger audience. There are some small/DIY-ish labels out there that really help bands and give them a fair deal... they are few and far between but they do exist. I'm not defending or advocating for being with a label or not, it's definitely not right or required for everyone... but they can bring some stuff to the proverbial table.

I wonder if there is any chance that a label would be willing to invest any time and/or money on a band solely for the music even in the band doesn't already have a fanbase. I guess that living like a hermit and having no friends nor "network" is pretty much a death sentence to any idea of "finding a label/printing records" I may have had.

 

[lucas303]

I wonder if there is any chance that a label would be willing to invest any time and/or money on a band solely for the music even in the band doesn't already have a fanbase. I guess that living like a hermit and having no friends nor "network" is pretty much a death sentence to any idea of "finding a label/printing records" I may have had.

My theoretical non-profit label would!

 

[oZZma]

My theoretical non-profit label would!

 

[hardtop]

I wonder if there is any chance that a label would be willing to invest any time and/or money on a band solely for the music even in the band doesn't already have a fanbase. I guess that living like a hermit and having no friends nor "network" is pretty much a death sentence to any idea of "finding a label/printing records" I may have had.

Sure, I mean, bands still get "discovered" right? haha. but, seriously, there are, especially in metal, a lot of labels that put out music just for the love of it. Dark Decent, 20 Buck Spin, Profound Lore among others. I know a couple of these guys and I assure you they're not getting rich putting out death metal. In fact, its much more of the non-profit model than they'd probably want to admit. Make just enough money to cover costs and put food on the table and keep putting out music they like.

 

[Jolagh]

Like hardtop said, we are mainly looking for the help to produce physical music, mainly vinyl and whatever PR assistance we can get. We are hoping to have a mostly complete package to deliver to whatever label to help us actually release the thing.