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TC Electronic RH750 ???!??

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#921
Vic said:
Wow. Ouch.

All I'm saying is, if you're just looking for a group of folks to state their opinions, and you clearly state how the test was conducted, how is that "incorrect"? I'd agree if there was a specific technical point you were trying to prove, and the test was done poorly to that end, but I think that lies simply in the goals of the test.
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I think I'm with Ken on this one, FWIW. Questions directed solely at the opinions of relatively small groups are very unlikely to be best served by a double-blind method, which is appropriate for asking focused, often "technical", questions, and powered by large numbers. Asking a couple dozen people whether they can hear a difference between cord A and cord B, even under double-blinded conditions, is very unlikely to provide a result with a usefully narrow confidence interval. It would be better to do something like what Bongomania did some time ago, in actually measuring the signal input and output of various cords and comparing them.

A well-designed qualitative study is much more likely to provide useful answers to questions involving multiple and complexly interactive variables like tonal preference, for example.
 
#922
GrowlerBox said:
I think I'm with Ken on this one, FWIW. Questions directed solely at the opinions of relatively small groups are very unlikely to be best served by a double-blind method, which is appropriate for asking focused, often "technical", questions, and powered by large numbers. Asking a couple dozen people whether they can hear a difference between cord A and cord B, even under double-blinded conditions, is very unlikely to provide a result with a usefully narrow confidence interval. It would be better to do something like what Bongomania did some time ago, in actually measuring the signal input and output of various cords and comparing them.

A well-designed qualitative study is much more likely to provide useful answers to questions involving multiple and complexly interactive variables like tonal preference, for example.
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Ken also responded to me directly in email with basically the same comments, and honestly, I don't disagree with the notion of a much more carefully structured test for much higher "quality" results, and honestly, that's probably what Tom was talking about, so I should really defer to him for a more official BGM response.

I was just saying, I (I guess personally) would still find it interesting to see what people said... even on a much more casually structured test. I guess my only real "disagreement" was that a more casual thing would be so completely worthless, or even worse, harmful. I didn't mean to suggest that's what BGM would do.

Just FWIW I guess.
 
#923
Vic said:
I guess my only real "disagreement" was that a more casual thing would be so completely worthless, or even worse, harmful. I didn't mean to suggest that's what BGM would do.

Just FWIW I guess.
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That's cool. I think we get more than enough "opinion" here on TB :D, and I would hate to see what is currently far and away the best repository of informed review and technical data for bass amplification go the way of some of your "competitors". :)
 
#924
Vic said:
Ken also responded to me directly in email with basically the same comments, and honestly, I don't disagree with the notion of a much more carefully structured test for much higher "quality" results, and honestly, that's probably what Tom was talking about, so I should really defer to him for a more official BGM response.
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Well, I actually thought that you and Ken were talking about double blind testing in the context of amplifier's "perceived loudness." But FWIW, in the context of the instrument cable shootout, we are going to measure a suite of technical capacities, such as inductance, capacitance, resistance, signal loss, etc. And we are also going to make audio recordings of each cable (using an input signal that is accurately repeatable, but also representative of the signal/load which an electric bass would present). We have some other ideas, as well, and the double blind group testing is just one possibility. But again, if it cannot be incorporated without passing all of the "tests" I outlined, above, then we would not use it.
 
#925
GrowlerBox said:
That's cool. I think we get more than enough "opinion" here on TB :D, and I would hate to see what is currently far and away the best repository of informed review and technical data for bass amplification go the way of some of your "competitors". :)
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Good point.
 
#927
Vic said:
Good point.
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Sorry for taking this thread OT. Per our discussion off-line, doing the sort of 'consumer testing' that Tom mentioned is every bit as complicated as doing the technical bench testing, and takes just as much expertise in the design and analysis stage.

If we were just talking as TB buddies, I wouldn't have even commented. However, potentially doing these sorts of quantitative consumer analyses as part of a professional magazine is quite a different issue, and much thought and technical input should go into any sort of 'multiple consumer evaluation', similar to what you guys are trying to do with the technical EE bench testing stuff.

No big deal, and I realize, as Tom posts, you guys are just thinking about stuff at this point.

Back to the 750!
 
#928
KJung said:
Sorry for taking this thread OT. Per our discussion off-line, doing the sort of 'consumer testing' that Tom mentioned is every bit as complicated as doing the technical bench testing, and takes just as much expertise in the design and analysis stage.

If we were just talking as TB buddies, I wouldn't have even commented. However, potentially doing these sorts of quantitative consumer analyses as part of a professional magazine is quite a different issue, and much thought and technical input should go into any sort of 'multiple consumer evaluation', similar to what you guys are trying to do with the technical EE bench testing stuff.

No big deal, and I realize, as Tom posts, you guys are just thinking about stuff at this point.
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Nah, you're right. No worries. :)
 
#929
KJung said:
Back to the 750!
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Mmmm, still loving mine. :)

Really, after quite a few gigs and rehearsals, it keeps growing on me. As loud (at least!) as any amp I ever owned, and packed with user friendly features. I really need two rigs, and I seriously have considered getting a second TC rig and selling my other/big rig. My wife will probably make sure that never happens, though. :)
 
#930
tombowlus said:
Well, I actually thought that you and Ken were talking about double blind testing in the context of amplifier's "perceived loudness." <SNIP>
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Me, too. I'm very interested in how TCE's technical achievements sound in comparison to other amplifiers with wattage that measures higher than the RH amps, and the wedding of technology and psychoacoustics behind those perceptions.
 
#934
#936
I picked up an RH750 this week. While I certainly dislike the misinformation in the specs of the amp, I do have to agree with everyone that it is incredibly loud. Even playing it through an inefficient Acme B2 2x10, the thing can melts faces.
 
#938
Bryan R. Tyler said:
I picked up an RH750 this week. While I certainly dislike the misinformation in the specs of the amp, I do have to agree with everyone that it is incredibly loud. Even playing it through an inefficient Acme B2 2x10, the thing can melts faces.
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I read the document on "[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]" that they have on the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] and it made sense to me. Earlier I read too much into the watt number alone when looking at amps, I think. Every manufacturer's "watt" is different in a way. At least now I understand how the TC amp works, and I like what I read.
 
#940
Question for all you guys who upgraded from the RH450. I have played several gigs where it is REALLY LOUD. When the volume gets cranked there seems to be a significant lack of low end muscle, and a lot of breakup in the sound, even with the tubetone off. I desire a deep, clear, punchy tone, which I get in spades at lower volumes. I think this is due to the power management, and the limiters they place on the rh450. do you guys notice this as much on the 750? or at all?
 
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