The Eagle Has Landed!!! Sadowsky All-Tube Head!!!

[Mr_Dave]

great photos man!

 

[nemo]

Great idea with that belt clip moved to the side!

Not bad rig too.

 

[kjones]

tom, I really am interested in the amp, but I only have one area of concern. My primary band is what I would describe as loud: two guitar players, keyboards, big hitting drummer, the works, playing high volume Allman Brothers type stuff. Obviously, I'm not concerned about venues where we would use sound reinforcement, but I would guess 50% of our gigs do not. How, in terms of power, would this amp hold up against that kind of situation?

 

[Phyrexian]

Great idea with that belt clip moved to the side!

+1

What kinda music do you guys play?

How's the Fulltone Bassdrive working with your amp?

 

[tombowlus]

How, in terms of power, would this amp hold up against that kind of situation?

To be honest, I don't think that it would be loud enough with the EL34's to keep up in a high volume rock and roll gig with two guitar players and a drummer without PA support. But, with 6550's, it may be a different story. Once I get confirmation that I can, indeed, run 6550's without voiding the warranty, I'll give it a go.

Tom.

 

[tombowlus]

Great idea with that belt clip moved to the side!

I got in the habit of taking off my jacket (or anything with a zipper) and moving my belt clip off to the side before I pick up any instrument (my own, or one in a store), and I think that this is good practice. I also prefer this to going "beltless", as it protects the bass from the snap/button on the jeans - as well as helps keep my drawers up!

 

[tombowlus]

What kinda music do you guys play?

This band plays mostly high energy rock-n-roll from the 70's, 80's, 90's, and 00's.

How's the Fulltone Bassdrive working with your amp?

Actually, I normally play through a pedal board that includes a Demeter FOD-1 Fat Overdrive pedal, but I left the dang thing at home! Luckily, I had thrown my Fulltone in another box. I like it a lot, and it was my primary overdrive/distortion for quite a while. The FOD-1 is more fuzz-like and organic, whereas the Fulltone is more cutting and bitey. My favorite overdrive, though, is my rackmount Chandler Tube Driver, but with heads, I normally just use a pedal. But I must say, that this was the best I recall my Fulltone sounding. I think that the SA200, NV215 and Bright Box all contributed to a great overdriven tone.

Tom.

 

[Larry Kaye]

You still haven't answered my comment about the fact that 6 6550 tubes should output closer to if not 300 watts not 200. and that 6 6L6GC's is closer to 150 watts. doesn't the Sadowsky head you have rate itself as 200 watts?

How did they get that?

Lkaye

 

[Steve Clark]

Tom, can you email me this pic? Make for cool wallpaper on a PC screen.

Those EL34's do look (and sound) nice, though.

 

[tombowlus]

You still haven't answered my comment about the fact that 6 6550 tubes should output closer to if not 300 watts not 200. and that 6 6L6GC's is closer to 150 watts. doesn't the Sadowsky head you have rate itself as 200 watts?

How did they get that?

Lkaye

I was hoping that someone more technically knowledgable would chime in, but I'll do my best. I know that you would typically expect about 25w per tube from an EL34 or 6L6GC, and about 50w per tube from a 6550. I also know that this is dependant upon a whole host of variables in the amp design/implementation. I recall Roger telling me that Dolf Koch benched this amp running EL34's at somewhere around 230w, so obviously they are doing something to get more output from the EL34's. I don't know what this means when it comes to running 6550's. I could see it going either way (more than 300w, because it seems to be designed to run the power tubes a bit hot; or less than 300w, because it is apparently tweaked for EL34's).

Hope this helps, Tom.

 

[tombowlus]

Tom, can you email me this pic? Make for cool wallpaper on a PC screen.

Sure! That's a good idea, actually. That shot turned out a lot better than I expected.

 

[SUBass]

I'll preface by saying that I'm not an expert. But I believe the following to be true about tubes and power.

First...Power in watts is actually a function of current and voltage. For a given current, increasing the voltage generates more wattage. It works the other way too. With a given voltage, increasing current increases wattage.

Tubes have a "sweet" spot in their transfer curve where they are the "flatest." You can actually monkey with the response (dynamic and frequency) of a tube by playing with the voltage and current. This is how "starved-plate" tube circuits do their thing. They run the tube at a lower voltage and it alters the frequency and dynamic response to sound all "tube-y." Really good tube circuits are pretty hi-fi. No fuzz or non-linearities are really present. Running tubes hotter (more voltage) generally alters their response but gives you more output. Check out a schematic for a Boogie Dual Recto to see this in practical use. I think it's the "bold/spongy" switch that lowers the voltage on the tubes.

Interestingly enough...Different brands of the same tube type (ie different EL-34's) can actually push out more juice. You can really alter the sound and performance of an amp by changing out the tubes. So a combination of quality tubes, and a "pushed" circuit design can give you more output from a tube than what's typical in a more "conservative" amp design.

James

 

[kjones]

tom, as always, thanks for the response and the information you routinely provide here.

 

[Hrothgar]

looking forward to a db750 vs sa200 thread.

Tom, I'm sure you've played both (or own both), care to compare and contrast??

 

[tombowlus]

looking forward to a db750 vs sa200 thread.

Tom, I'm sure you've played both (or own both), care to compare and contrast??

I have only played a 750 in the store, but my general impression was that it has massive power and headroom, but sounded a bit pillowy, or somewhat overly thick and blooming, in the lows. [Edit: my experience with the 750 was very limited, and somewhat rushed, so by all means read what jokerjkny and oddio have to say about the 750, below.] By comparision, the SA200 is warm through the lows, but still tight and aritculate. It does not have the crushing headroom of the 750, but has plenty of power for most sane gigs, and has tone for days. When I played around with the EQ on the 750, it seemed very powerful, but I could only dial in a few different tones that I found to sound "right." The EQ on the SA200 is designed in such a way that it is very hard to dial in a bad tone, and it seems to preserve the tonal character, but still allow for sculpting. It may mean that the EQ on the SA200 is less powerful than that on the 750, I don't really know. All I know is that I definitely prefer the EQ section on the Sadowsky (presuming that you like the sound of your bass to begin with).

Of course, these impressions are based upon non-direct comparisons, seperated by significant time, but using similar gear (similar basses, same cab - NV215), so take this with a grain of salt.

Tom.

 

[jokerjkny]

I have only played a 750 in the store, but my general impression was that it has massive power and headroom, but sounded a bit pillowy, or somewhat overly thick and blooming, in the lows. By comparision, the SA200 is warm through the lows, but still tight and aritculate. (...)

interesting, i found the opposite.

the 750 seems much tighter and punchier to my ears, while the SA200 has that usually pillowy feel like most tube amps.

still, the SA200 is definitely punchier and quicker feeling than my DB359, which has even more of that pillowy sound you refer. i kinda have to crank the midrange knob on the DB359 to cut thru the fatness. the Sadowsky on the other hand seems to have that quickness inherent to the tone.

and, will this thread not go away!!! i just spent on a MTD, i cant afford to be looking at this thread!!!

 

[Sadowsky]

Tom,

I just noticed on your blog that you credit Dolf with the aesthetic design of the SA200: "His designs are elegant and austere, and to my eyes, the SA200 is his crown jewel".

I just wanted to give credit where credit is due---the exterior design of the SA200 was the work of myself, my friend and Talkbass member Fred Hodshon and Kevin Drexler, my in-house web and graphics master.

Roger

 

[tombowlus]

Tom,

I just noticed on your blog that you credit Dolf with the aesthetic design of the SA200: "His designs are elegant and austere, and to my eyes, the SA200 is his crown jewel".

I just wanted to give credit where credit is due---the exterior design of the SA200 was the work of myself, my friend and Talkbass member Fred Hodshon and Kevin Drexler, my in-house web and graphics master.

Roger

First off, I am honored that you took the time to read my blog! I apologize for attributing credit for the esthetic design incorrectly. My presumption was that Dolf had at least been involved in the interior layout - which is reminiscent of his other design, but even more elegant, IMHO - but the front "face" on the unit is a real beauty. On the whole, from front to back, I find the SA200 to be a great marriage of function and esthetic, and I appreciate you clarifying the exterior design team. You, Fred, Kevin, and Dolf all did a great job!

 

[tombowlus]

interesting, i found the opposite.

the 750 seems much tighter and punchier to my ears, while the SA200 has that usually pillowy feel like most tube amps.

It may have to do with my expectations of each amp. As a big SS amp, I would expect the 750 to be supa-tight on the lows, and I was somewhat surprised at what I perceived as a pillowy low end. Perhaps I never did EQ it right. Conversely, as I have come to expect a certain softness to the lows on many tube amps, I found the SA200 to be more tight than I expected down low (though still warm, and slightly roundish).

I would like to try out a 750 again, sometime. Maybe my first take was not indicative of what I should expect.

 

[jokerjkny]

lol,

and silly me thought you had a DB750 this whole time!