Thunderbird Club

[PaleAngel_90]

Do any of you guys know where I could get an allen key/wrech for my Epiphone Thunderbird IV? I don't know if it came with one, forgot to ask (rookie mistake I know) I assumed it came with one...

 

[KaraQ]

Do any of you guys know where I could get an allen key/wrech for my Epiphone Thunderbird IV? I don't know if it came with one, forgot to ask (rookie mistake I know) I assumed it came with one...

Afaik, the only thing you should need an Allen wrench for is adjusting the truss rod.
I don't remember the size right off, but you should be able to get one from a parts/tool store. Or online from someplace like StewMac.

Intonation adjustment takes a small, thin flat-blade, and bridge height/angle takes a wide blade - as close to the slot width as you can get, to make adjustments easier and to cause less damage to the slots

 

[DesolationBlvd]

Hmm. I could get along with an oiled finish. Having to do final sanding too, though, I’m on the fence. The price is right at least.

Total no-go. The guy on eBay said he cannot move the pickup routes. There goes my plans to assemble it myself.

 

[GonePlaid]

o - k... but until I watch that specific review, I'll hold any criticism/opinion I have. I know for a fact that there is a lot of very bias opinions of T-birds here (understandably so) - but being a very objective player/long time owner of a gen1 vintage T-bird, (fully celebrating/considering its pluses and honestly acknowledging its minuses, w/o bias) - I might agree with some of his criticism.

Post the link and I'll give you my honest review of his review -

I see @Nocturnal posted the link. I couldn't 'cos, after watching this and a coupla other of his reviews, I wrote him off.

 

[WillyW]

I haven't watched it but here is the kink.

Ok I watched the review and listed my comments below. It was in fact a generally biased review, he even hinted at that. The parts that weren’t biased were factual for the bass in his possession but not necessarily for the model in general and the purchase logic was flawed. I wouldn’t call him a hack, and it wasn’t an intentional hit job but it wasn’t an informative or helpful review.

First off, he’s a really good player and did run through the various settings and playing styles (finger, pic, slap) nicely. Well, maybe not so nicely on the slap, I’ve heard better but I don’t typically like slap regardless of who’s doing it, so I kinda tune out during those portions of reviews. His tone observation and playing observation was that it sounded and played phenomenal especially with a pic but he wasn’t fond of the slapability. That and the Hipshot tuners were about the only good things he noted about the bass.

Pretty much the rest of the review was a completely biased and bogus airing of his personal pet peeve with the Gibson three point bridge, a legitimate beef with a significant finish flaw in the paint, and a misleading gripe about the price of the bass.

Bridge
It made no difference to him if the bridge was functional or not, he flat out hates the three point and said so. He made some bogus negative comments about the bridge to support his disdain for it (falls off the bass when strings are removed, can’t be intonated, saddle heights can’t be adjusted). To be honest, they were hack comments and a real stretch. In other words before he even picked up or touched the bass he knew he would probably not like it because of the bridge. That’s unwarranted bias vs a legitimate beef in my book.

Finish Flaw
He did note a significant finish flaw at the tuner on the face of the headstock. I’d agree it was a botched finish or finish damaged during assembly. It should never have left the factory that way. I’ve heard of others on the web complain about the finish. I’ve only seen three 21 NR basses in person but none of the three I’ve seen had any notable finish issues. He said he looked into it on line and noted other people claimed to have the same problem. Who knows how many of those comments were legit vs internet piling on? Bottom line though, his bass had a finish issue, he rightfully highlighted it so other buyers can look for those issues during a purchase. It’s a legit heads up but quite possibly not indicative at all of the general state of these basses.

Price Point
At the time he reviewed it the bass was listed at about $1900, but he must have updated the video because a caption popped up on the screen indicating the 2022 price is now about $2100. His observation is thats too much money to ask for a bass with this type of bridge and this bad of a finish flaw. Bridge aside since thats a bogus discussion, I’d have to agree with him. I wouldn’t have paid that price for that bass with that finish flaw. If it didn’t have the finish flaw I’d say it was priced competitively with its Fender counterpart (American Vintage Reissue P Bass).

That said, I personally think both the Fender and the Gibson are over priced, but what isn’t over priced these days. I’m paying twice as much for a gallon of gas now than I was two years ago, more for food, more for utilities and just about everything else.

IMHO the Gibson 2021 NR is an $1800 bass. If you paid more than that for a new one you didn’t get a great deal and if you paid less you did get a great deal. So instead of just quoting MSRP he should be listing “Street Price” as well, which is about $1800 on Reverb in the states and about $1600 in Europe.

I finally asked my wife how much she paid for mine, it was $1650 not including tax and shipping. I consider that a pretty darn good deal for a brand new phenomenal playing, solid mahogany, set neck bass with rosewood fingerboard, sweet sounding pickups, gorgeous burgundy metallic finish in a solid case with all the case candy including a multi tool. If I had an option to buy the comparable Fender P bass at the same $1650 price, I’d choose the Gibson. If I had the chance to buy either one at their MSRP I’d pass on both.

I think the Lobster review is actually pretty fair, especially for the tuna area finish flaws. I tune out Gibson bashing because I own many and have not had any real issues.

I’m not sure about y’all but I never pay msrp.

I have to check but I have a bit under 3k invested in my two (2) 21 NR’s and that includes @godofthunder59 claws on both, and hello kitty stickers…

Adding the claw negates any issues I have with a 3 point, I especially like the look.

I agree with @GBassNorth comparable 7ender at the same price no contest.

I did own the Tony Franklin Precision bass, which is exactly the same price point, fit and finish on the 7ender was superior to Gibson, but in the end Gibson wins for style. (Traded the Franklin for a Rickenbacker)

now if Gibson would stop putting shaging frets on their shaging basses that would be shaging awesome

 

[JJR58]

For the Bay Area folks, I need to get the fret sprout on the CP taken care of and looking for someone you all trust that won't cost more than what I paid for the CP in the first place. @MCF has a good contact in SoCal, but not likely I'm going to be heading that way any time soon.

That should be a very inexpensive fix.

 

[Thumper]

Stew-Mac sells fret end files. That and painters tape and careful filing costs very little

 

[godofthunder59]

I think the Lobster review is actually pretty fair, especially for the tuna area finish flaws. I tune out Gibson bashing because I own many and have not had any real issues.

I’m not sure about y’all but I never pay msrp.

I have to check but I have a bit under 3k invested in my two (2) 21 NR’s and that includes @godofthunder59 claws on both, and hello kitty stickers…

Adding the claw negates any issues I have with a 3 point, I especially like the look.

I agree with @GBassNorth comparable 7ender at the same price no contest.

I did own the Tony Franklin Precision bass, which is exactly the same price point, fit and finish on the 7ender was superior to Gibson, but in the end Gibson wins for style. (Traded the Franklin for a Rickenbacker)

now if Gibson would stop putting shaging frets on their shaging basses that would be shaging awesome

My Inverness Green 2021 NR has the same bubbled finish around the tuner washers. They were definitely shipping these fast and not letting the finish cure. My bass reeked of laquer for about a week, the finish was still curing. In the end I got a substantial discount on it. The finish flaws are the main reason I decided to go ahead and modify it.
Absolutely no reason to deliver a bass in that condition. Same old same old from Gibson.

 

[BassDaddy77]

My Inverness Green 2021 NR has the same bubbled finish around the tuner washers. They were definitely shipping these fast and not letting the finish cure. My bass reeked of laquer for about a week, the finish was still curing. In the end I got a substantial discount on it. The finish flaws are the main reason I decided to go ahead and modify it.



Absolutely no reason to deliver a bass in that condition. Same old same old from Gibson.

I didn't even notice for an entire year... but upon VERY close inspection, my Inverness Green NR also has a little paint bubbling around the tuner posts on the side towards the nut. It's quite a small finish imperfection, but I suppose I could see an argument there for some folks. That aside, mine is absolutely perfect otherwise. I especially love the neck profile on these, and the tone kills , IMO.

 

[Stealth57]

who would ever slap a T-bird?

You saw @Chucky Stiletti go full Larry Graham on several. OK, he's a monster

 

[Stealth57]

Do any of you guys know where I could get an allen key/wrech for my Epiphone Thunderbird IV? I don't know if it came with one, forgot to ask (rookie mistake I know) I assumed it came with one...

Any old hardware store. I think all you need is a 4mm. Someone will correct me if I have the wrong size listed.

 

[Stealth57]

Afaik, the only thing you should need an Allen wrench for is adjusting the truss rod.
I don't remember the size right off, but you should be able to get one from a parts/tool store. Or online from someplace like StewMac.

Intonation adjustment takes a small, thin flat-blade, and bridge height/angle takes a wide blade - as close to the slot width as you can get, to make adjustments easier and to cause less damage to the slots

Note of caution. Don't adjust the bridge height with the strings under tension. You could damage the inserts.

 

[Stealth57]

Stew-Mac sells fret end files. That and painters tape and careful filing costs very little

Unless you are a like me.

 

[Engle]

Stew-Mac sells fret end files. That and painters tape and careful filing costs very little

For our Canadian contingent: Lee Valley also sells a fret end dressing file.

 

[GBassNorth]

For our Canadian contingent: Lee Valley also sells a fret end dressing file.

Just give it to @WillyW for a day. I guarantee you’ll never have fret sprout again!

 

[GBassNorth]

Do any of you guys know where I could get an allen key/wrech for my Epiphone Thunderbird IV? I don't know if it came with one, forgot to ask (rookie mistake I know) I assumed it came with one...

Sounds like you don’t already have a hex key set. Go to your local hardware store and buy a set (about 10 different sizes in a set) of Allen wrenches (or hex keys as some people call them). If you have an Epiphone you’ll need a metric set. Probably will cost about $10.

 

[JIO]

In my original NR review a couple of pages back I noted the use of a three point on this bass as a shortcoming from a reissue standpoint (along with the pup spacing).

That said, I’ll respectfully disagree with you on the functionality of the Gibson three point (jury is still out on the Eppi three point). The Gibby three point is perfectly functional, robust and reliable. Can it fall off the bass if you remove the strings? Sure. It was designed so that the strings hold it in place, the fender bent plate was designed so the screws hold it in place. If you remove the screws on the bent plate it falls off the bass as well. Is it difficult to get to the intonation screws on a three point? Not really, certainly no more difficult than a bent plate. Does the three point have individually adjustable saddles? Nope, it’s designed to match the radius of the neck so it doesn’t need them. Whereas the bent plate has 8 little grub screws on the saddles that inevitably get stripped, lost, loose, or adjusted incorrectly. Do string silks ride on the saddles of the three point? They can, and that’s a design flaw that the bent plate doesn’t have. Is the bent plate a top loading design? No, and that’s a design flaw the bent plate does have, just ask anybody with coated strings. That’s not even taking into account bent plates with shared bar saddles or bent plates with threaded barrel saddles or bent plates with string through body options.

Fender has a number of different bridge designs. Their bent plate is my least favorite, their high mass is my favorite. Likewise Gibson has a number of bridge designs as well, the three point is my least favorite, the two piece VP is my favorite. I have a number of basses from various manufacturers that have two piece bridges (Warwick, Alembic, BaCH, Greco to name a few) of the bunch, the Epiphone VP two piece is the best executed and my favorite. On a Thunderbird I’d take it over a Babicz or Hipshot or three point any day of the week.

Other than being butt ugly, the three point is a perfectly acceptable bridge as is the equally butt ugly bent plate.

Once set-up, as long as they work as they should - a bridge is a bridge is a bridge. I was using the 'bent plate' as a generic term/example as a basic design - which includes all the later 'high-mass' versions based on it. Even still - guys like Pat Wilkins (who is a bass player) prefers that tried & true bridge on his custom basses. We've had conversations about it and are on the same page. In the later versions of the original Fender bridge, some strings drop in, some weave through the stop, and some thread through the body - take your pick. The saddles stay put when changing strings or working on the bass and the bridge is securely screwed into the body. How many pics have I seen of the two posts on a Gibson/Epi bridge being pulled out of the body? (answer - a lot) And I forgot to mention agreeing with his criticism of the awkward access to adjusting the fore/aft saddles on a Gibson bass. (including my '64 II) On all Fender styles - adjusting the saddles fore/aft is a breeze easily accessed from the butt of the bridge with a screwdriver or hex-wrench. I like the original Dano bridge for the same reason - simple and gets the job done. Not as fine-tunable as a bridge with individual adjustable saddles, but you can always get intonation close enough and once it's set - it's set. I have a number of different bridges on my basses and they all work. My hearing isn't acute enough to 'hear' the difference a high-mass bridge makes over a basic Fender or Dano bridge and have my own opinion of their sonic-related worth. But I do appreciate their design and have a few on my basses. One of my favorite bridges is the Schaller 3D w/roller saddles - introduced in the '80s and still one of the best fully adjustable designs out there. Hipshot make a number of great bridges - their Supertone is a well designed replacement for the 3-point - better in every way. As always we can congenially agree to disagree and thanks for you insights.

Oh, and I don't agree with his flat dismissal of the bass in his summery. But considering how many basses he handles, assesses, plays/reviews - I would agree that it falls short of many better designed basses for Gibsons asking price - but at the end of the day being a T-bird player, I'll hold off on dissing it to that level.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

There are two sports viewing experiences everyone should try at least once. Attend live professional Hockey match, and attend a live College Basketball game. Both are high energy crowd involvement experiences.

I really want to hit a roller derby live, too.

 

[JIO]

You saw @Chucky Stiletti go full Larry Graham on several. OK, he's a monster

Yes, but just because he knows how to!

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Late again for Thunderbird Thursday!

Some video from our most recent gig:

Tim Lohr on Instagram: "Poppy playing their track "Trophy Hunter" at Nitro Bar in West Reading PA. This is the first song from that night's set, the rest of which will be on the YouTube page shortly @poppybandphiladelphia @nitrobarwestreading"

Great stuff!