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Thunderbird Club

Those catalogs are a great resource. I don’t read Japanese but at least one can see what was available when and the model numbers.
Nor do I unfortunately, which would be handy in trying to discern some of the differences between the PMB-800 and PMB-1000.


What I find rather odd is that Greco went pretty all out on the Rick clones, going full neck-thru on the build, but for whatever reason didn't do neck-thru on the Thunderbird or Firebird clones. If you're already doing it on one bass, why not others where the original featured it, but alas, who knows...
 
I saw them in 1975 in Atlanta - great band! You are only the second or third person I've run across who's seen them. Alas, I don't recall what any of them were playing.
I was born in 1975 so I have seen them only in pictures and videos...
Did have a few albums 'though and might indulge again as some of their stuff has been expanded. "Cook" for example. The first two albums "Storia Di Un Minuto" and "Per Un Amico" are quite beautiful.

Italy did have a huge prog movement in the seventies. PFM, Banco and Le Orme were probably the biggest bands. My favorite is Area who were totally unique with a totally unique vocalist Demetrio Stratos.
 
Nor do I unfortunately, which would be handy in trying to discern some of the differences between the PMB-800 and PMB-1000.


What I find rather odd is that Greco went pretty all out on the Rick clones, going full neck-thru on the build, but for whatever reason didn't do neck-thru on the Thunderbird or Firebird clones. If you're already doing it on one bass, why not others where the original featured it, but alas, who knows...
A big motivator can be the time and cost to tool up for something like that. If you can re-use existing jigs, fixtures, and tooling, it can save you time and money. They may have regretted the cost of tooling up for the Rick homage, they may have been in a position where they didn't have as much capital to invest in the process for the birds, they may have done the math and found that the margins were poor on their neck-thru models.

Totally speculating here, but I imagine having your line set up to make set or bolt neck models with slight variations in headstock and body shapes is more efficient in terms of tooling and physical space than setting up a line to switch back and forth between laminated neck-through models that vary similarly.
 
For your restoration project I would look for and seriously consider any of the following that you can find/afford, in no particular order

Lull
Lollar
Thunderbucker Ranch
Gibson
Seymour Duncan Custom Shop

The first three are unlikely, with Lollar at least being available, to my ears the current Gibson Re-issues are hard to beat at their price point. I do like the SD Custom Shop a little better overall, but they're a lot more money. $440.00pr when I bought them vs. $260.00pr for Gibson.
To start, I would sit down with your Red NR and both of your amps, it's closest to what the restored NR is, set neck etc., and really listen to what the Gibson pickups can do, I personally really like them, my '21 is a great sounding bass as is my VP that has them in it.

It's just dismal weather here today, so gratuitous warm day pic.

QlUcO0U.jpg
Thank you very much! Well, not for the warm pic! It's 22 here which is likely our high for today. I'm done with Winter!

I sat down and compared the '64, VP with SIT SS, and the '21 NR with the same strings. The NR possibly seemed the least similar to the old NR with China or Koreabuckers. I didn't spend much time on this, however. The neck pickup being in a more bass position on the '21 NR seemed a pretty noticeable difference. I would say the VP and the '66 NR were most similar, but not identical.

Currently I'm thinking of the Gibson reissues because it will be "Gibson" and they are very nice. Likely get a discount from my Sweetwater guy. They should work very well just in case...I run across a set of vintage Gibsons. Whatever they would cost within some reason should add that back to the value of the bass. Not that I'm going to sell, but at some point in 30 yrs I won't be playing (I'll be 92 then) and someone can benefit. Finding old Gibsons is unlikely, but a thought. After all, other than the body, that's were the value is. That's kind of where I'm at. But that may change depending on refinishing cost.
 
It's also normal business practice fairly common for your partner company in China to pass the technical data and IP they've obtained from your US based company up the chain and for that information to make its way into the hands of other factories and shops elsewhere in China. Not much you can do there either, often the CCP is involved themselves and there's not much you're going to be able to do to them in court.
Yes, all good points. But I modified one!
 
It's not exactly uncommon for Chinese OEM's to just not gaf about the contract, especially if the company they're working with doesn't follow the letter of the contract themselves. Copies and counterfeits making their way into grey markets is part of the cost of doing business over there. Cisco Systems had to learn this the hard way not too long ago. Gibson/Epiphone probably are aware of this and while they may be frustrated by it, usually a party to such dealings doesn't have all that much recourse.

It's also fairly common for your partner company in China to pass the technical data and IP they've obtained from your US based company up the chain and for that information to make its way into the hands of other factories and shops elsewhere in China. Not much you can do there either, often the CCP is involved themselves and there's not much you're going to be able to do to them in court.

It would be interesting to get an authentic example and one of the dubious grey market examples and open them up to compare specs. They may be factory seconds, they may be reverse engineered copies, they may be cost engineered copies based off of an authentic technical data package. Fun thing is even if you did some measurements and observation of an example of an ebay sourced Chinabucker, there's no guarantee that it will be representative of all of them in the market, as they may in actuality be coming from multiple sources.
Well put....China +1 directives (including FCC lists) have wiped many a smile off....
 
Nor do I unfortunately, which would be handy in trying to discern some of the differences between the PMB-800 and PMB-1000.


What I find rather odd is that Greco went pretty all out on the Rick clones, going full neck-thru on the build, but for whatever reason didn't do neck-thru on the Thunderbird or Firebird clones. If you're already doing it on one bass, why not others where the original featured it, but alas, who knows.....like you say, who knows....
McCartney didn't play a Bird?....Rick's sold better hence commanding more accuracy?.....vintage Birds make it easier (and cheaper) to clone with a non thru/non mahogany neck since they were always finished in some color or burst?.......maybe a licensing thing?... like you say, who knows..,,
 
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Thank you very much! Well, not for the warm pic! It's 22 here which is likely our high for today. I'm done with Winter!

I sat down and compared the '64, VP with SIT SS, and the '21 NR with the same strings. The NR possibly seemed the least similar to the old NR with China or Koreabuckers. I didn't spend much time on this, however. The neck pickup being in a more bass position on the '21 NR seemed a pretty noticeable difference. I would say the VP and the '66 NR were most similar, but not identical.

Currently I'm thinking of the Gibson reissues because it will be "Gibson" and they are very nice. Likely get a discount from my Sweetwater guy. They should work very well just in case...I run across a set of vintage Gibsons. Whatever they would cost within some reason should add that back to the value of the bass. Not that I'm going to sell, but at some point in 30 yrs I won't be playing (I'll be 92 then) and someone can benefit. Finding old Gibsons is unlikely, but a thought. After all, other than the body, that's were the value is. That's kind of where I'm at. But that may change depending on refinishing cost.
main reason for buying a Greco IV was two instead of one pickups for a project such as this (if one came up) until I started gigging it and realized it was better left alone... that said, would be very interested to hear one those pups in the 68 II.....
 
Nor do I unfortunately, which would be handy in trying to discern some of the differences between the PMB-800 and PMB-1000.


What I find rather odd is that Greco went pretty all out on the Rick clones, going full neck-thru on the build, but for whatever reason didn't do neck-thru on the Thunderbird or Firebird clones. If you're already doing it on one bass, why not others where the original featured it, but alas, who knows...
Is that why the Greco Ricks seem more expensive than the Greco T’birds? At least that seems to be the case locally (in Australia).
 
What I find rather odd is that Greco went pretty all out on the Rick clones, going full neck-thru on the build, but for whatever reason didn't do neck-thru on the Thunderbird or Firebird clones. If you're already doing it on one bass, why not others where the original featured it, but alas, who knows...
Perhaps Rickenbackers were selling better at the time, so they figured they could get more for them, which allowed them to up the production costs. The theory about tooling up for them and deciding it wasn't worth it on other models seems viable, too. Or maybe someone decided there wasn't a discernible difference...
Is that why the Greco Ricks seem more expensive than the Greco T’birds? At least that seems to be the case locally (in Australia).
My guesses? That and them costing more to begin with. Plus, there's a mystique about Rics in the GP. More so than for birds.
 
italian-progressive-rock-band-premiata-forneria-marconi-7th-may-1976-left-to-right-mauro-pagani.jpg


P.F.M. 1976. Looks like a T-Bird there. Patrick Djivas used a Ripper quite a lot and a G-3 if I recall correctly but never seen him with a Thunderbird before this.

When he was with Area in 1973 he had this modded fretless Jazz Bass. A slanted Fender humbucker?
PFM-Patrick-Djivas-0001-20x25cm-scaled.webp
Premiata! Awesome, haven't heard them in years.....never seen those amps? any clue anyone?..... ironically Glover did the same thing to a Rick with 2 J pups in the neck position and iirc, that Ricky neck pup ended in a TBird II...