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Underpowering two cabs? Need your advice.

#121
Ronnie Nine said:
Guys.. if you just dislike that PF please let me know xD.
It's on my G.A.S list., that's all..
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I don't trust the PF series. I had a PF800 a year or so ago that died right away. Later I bought a PF500 and liked the sound, but honestly I heard so much bad about it I returned it; I won't tolerate an unreliable amp.

I have several amps, including a Rumble 500 head. Like it a lot. It doesn't go quite as deep as the PF, but it's really good. Has a tube-amp quality and a rather thick tone. and it's loud.

Even better than that, that does go as low as the PF and sounds better, is the new Mesa Subway D800. you'll have trouble finding a used one, though, and it's expensive, but it's better than the PF in every way. 800 watts, goes down to 2 ohms. and is brutally loud. If you ever need another amp I'd be surprised, making it a good long-term investment.
 
#122
B-string said:
I looked in my schematic cache before LOUD rethought allowing current products to be available and the last at that time revision D with main board J02. There may be others after that. I would be more comfortable with the PF 350 or PF 800 especially since getting service will be a HUGE issue for you. PF 500 would be a gamble I would not be comfortable recommending personally.
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I had an early PF800 that died on me within an hour.
 
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#123
ubernator said:
I know if you put a plea in the fender rumble club thread you might have luck. Many say the rumble 500 is closer to the pf800 in volume
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I'm in the Rumble Club and can guarantee they will say an Rumble beats a PF hands down. see my earlier posts about my experiences. I likes the Rumble 500s a LOT. Fender bass sound is another top tier rock bass tone.
 
#125
bdplaid said:
I had an early PF800 that died on me within an hour.
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It sucks when it happens to you, but that is the big reason for warranties as sub-components, manufacturing or handling errors can happen to any brand. No manufacturer is immune to these troubles. I've seen plenty of poor design and or engineering from your chosen brand (Fender) to make a blanket statement about any manufacturer. The lack of a model's reported failures weighs more than a somewhat isolated incident.
 
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#126
B-string said:
It sucks when it happens to you, but that is the big reason for warranties as sub-components, manufacturing or handling errors can happen to any brand. No manufacturer is immune to these troubles. I've seen plenty of poor design and or engineering from your chosen brand (Fender) to make a blanket statement about any manufacturer. The lack of a model's reported failures weighs more than a somewhat isolated incident.
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What part of the mass of PF500 failures is being ignored here? PF500 and PF800 are the same amp with different power sections. They've had a lot of trouble with them, to which I can personally attest. Maybe the individual amp a guy receives is the best amp on the planet, but in my mind it's a gamble. I refuse to (again) be the sucker who turns on his amp at a gig to watch the amp die with a whimper.

I've never heard of a Rumble failure, but am sure that anything can break. Mine's been rock solid. What I can attest to regarding Fender is that, regarding my amp, there was an issue with the knobs. Fender customer service not only replaced them, but gave me a free set of pickups for my trouble. Ampeg ain't gonna do that.
 
#129
bdplaid said:
What part of the mass of PF500 failures is being ignored here? PF500 and PF800 are the same amp with different power sections. They've had a lot of trouble with them, to which I can personally attest. Maybe the individual amp a guy receives is the best amp on the planet, but in my mind it's a gamble. I refuse to (again) be the sucker who turns on his amp at a gig to watch the amp die with a whimper.

I've never heard of a Rumble failure, but am sure that anything can break. Mine's been rock solid. What I can attest to regarding Fender is that, regarding my amp, there was an issue with the knobs. Fender customer service not only replaced them, but gave me a free set of pickups for my trouble. Ampeg ain't gonna do that.
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The PF800 and PF500 do have different power amps and that is the bulk of the failures (main board is the power amp and power supply). I'm not discounting your troubles and understand you not wanting to trust the brand. I am not a "fan boy" just an old amp tech that sees them all which includes your current chosen brand. I am not saying it will fail on you (no crystal ball), the failures I see have no bearing on your experiences (this why I don't discount any brand blanketly).
 
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#130
ubernator said:
...350w into a 410 is pretty standard, you would only need more in extreme situations...
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+1 to this. I played for a few years in a band with a strat and a tele both through Deluxe Reverbs with a drummer channeling John Bonham, all with a hartke 410 XL and an SWR basic 350. There was only a handful of times i wished for more.
 
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#131
B-string said:
The PF800 and PF500 do have different power amps and that is the bulk of the failures (main board is the power amp and power supply). I'm not discounting your troubles and understand you not wanting to trust the brand. I am not a "fan boy" just an old amp tech that sees them all which includes your current chosen brand. I am not saying it will fail on you (no crystal ball), the failures I see have no bearing on your experiences (this why I don't discount any brand blanketly).
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:-)

I don't think I'm discounting Ampeg in blanket fashion either (although I do feel that way ever since LOUD took them over). I don't trust the PF series and won't use them. However, my band has a old SVT4 that's very solid and sounds pretty much as expected.

But in our current discussion we are trying to help a fellow who asked about a specific amp that we know to be problematic, we are offering to him alternatives.

Earlier I posted about Ashdown as a consideration, since I believe they are less expensive in Europe. I've had something like 3 of them in the past, and the last one I had was so beefy we used to get calls from neighbors complaining about the bass. IMO that's a plus. ;-) . My question is, what do others think of Ashdown?
 
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#134
B-string said:
I looked in my schematic cache before LOUD rethought allowing current products to be available and the last at that time revision D with main board J02. There may be others after that. I would be more comfortable with the PF 350 or PF 800 especially since getting service will be a HUGE issue for you. PF 500 would be a gamble I would not be comfortable recommending personally.
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Ah, you could clear something up for me then. As I remember it, the third and fourth (C and D) main board revisions added clamp diodes and changed the switching frequency on the amp. I believe the revs after that were for parts availability and regular maintenance items. Do your docs confirm this?
 
#136
B-string said:
It would be easier to PM you the docs (agree as I did to NOT post them without LOUD's written consent).

Buffers added at [E], PWM frequency at [F], value changes of caps and resistors, U16 was changed and a resistor removed. These were on Rev D units.
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That would be cool. I kept my two PF500s because they were after the last design changes. Thanks!
 
#140
Ronnie Nine said:
I have none! I am planning to buy the pf 500 since there are plenty used for sale. I would buy the 800 of course I just can't find any. The 410 would be a Hartke 4.5XL for 170 euros or Hartke XL for 130.

I live in europe. (You might have noticed that because of my poor english. 3rd language ^^)
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Of those two cabs, the 4.5XL is MUCH nicer in my experience and opinion. Much bigger bottom end and better snap up top as well. I'm not sure how well it would pair with the PF500 though. Those cabs have a very bright voicing and the PF series amps are pretty vintagey. The Hartke cabs respond much better to more modern voiced amps - any of the Hartke amps, and the GK amps also pair nicely with them.
 
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