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victor wooten bass camp

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#81
You can feel good about yourself and your playing all you want, and if you are the only person who will hear your "music" then all is well. If you intend to play music in any sort of public setting, or in a professional setting, all the good feelings and soul searching aren't going to amount to a hill of beans.

There are tons of people who have refused to learn the language of music... you can find them in their bedrooms/ garages, or at the local dive "playing" with their "band".
 
#82
standupright said:
yes and no. it all depends on what your goal(s) is/are. learning the fundamental constructs of music allows you to take more scenic routes on your journey, regardless of destination.
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You make my point, so in this situation we have because Jeff knows what bassfool24421 goals are? Is it because Jeff knows them that bassfool24421 has no reason to over react and Jeff is right to post such a comment and not expect a reaction?:)
 
#83
finalrequiem said:
Jeff is dead on, whether you like it or not... The guys that improve their ability as players after attending camps or events that focus on "non musical" things do so because they found a way (or were shown how) to apply it to practicing and learning musical things, not because it unlocked some mystic potential. Just for the record, I'm a fairly emotional and spiritual person so I'm not taking away from that but the fact is, tapping into your inner whatever won't give you the ability to use your tool with which you are creating UNLESS you find a way to apply it to the "learning" part. No way around it, really...
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100% agree!!!
 
#85
NicJimBass said:
You can feel good about yourself and your playing all you want, and if you are the only person who will hear your "music" then all is well. If you intend to play music in any sort of public setting, or in a professional setting, all the good feelings and soul searching aren't going to amount to a hill of beans.

There are tons of people who have refused to learn the language of music... you can find them in their bedrooms/ garages, or at the local dive "playing" with their "band".
Click to expand...

possibly true..but i chose to fix soul first and music knowledge second..IS THAT WRONG????
 
#86
bassfool24421 said:
again...if i play one note and one note only I can be more of a musician than you can cause you are worried about all the other stuff...keep in touch with your inner self..you will be a better person...not saying you are wrong but you jumped the gun and the rules are not the same for all people...vic knows that it is a healthy combo of both ...who care is the chicken comes before the egg or vice versa? as long as you get to your goal is all that matters....
Click to expand...

Please name any gig, any situation in music where playing one note is regarded as significant in any way. Name me a show, a recording, a song (even One Note Samba uses lots of the same note).

Everybody can play from their inner self. it is impossible to turn it off. It doesn't need any molding or nurturing. Every kid who ever played meant it. They played with passion and their soul. The problem? Most never learned how to play and (forgive me) but your philosophy of the higher meaning of one note consigns you to this group.

Change your ways and stop being such a philosopher. Be a doer because you will get way more out of playing than by just believing that one note has meaning. Believe me Son! It doesn'! It is another cliche that players who can't play use to justify their lack of ability. THREE MONTHS and you could be three times the player that you are if you learn "The Good Stuff". Good luck!
 
#87
bassfool24421 said:
I stand by my opinions of jeff... he is not a person i respect or choose to listen to!
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I would like you to calm down and state clearly what it is that I say that you disagree with. Not offends you (another cliche) people choose to be offened, it isn't thrusted upon them.

Just state what I have said that you feel that I am in error about and we can discuss it.
 
#88
bassfool24421 said:
again...if i play one note and one note only I can be more of a musician than you can cause you are worried about all the other stuff...keep in touch with your inner self..you will be a better person...not saying you are wrong but you jumped the gun and the rules are not the same for all people...vic knows that it is a healthy combo of both ...who care is the chicken comes before the egg or vice versa? as long as you get to your goal is all that matters....
Click to expand...

You should heed your own advice Mr. Fool

bassfool24421 said:
I stand by my opinions of jeff... he is not a person i respect or choose to listen to!
Click to expand...

If this is the case, then why reply with nothing but disdain for Mr. Berlin?
Did your "innerself" get rubbed the wrong way??

Don't know you or how well you play, but your "quick to kill" comments remind me of countless players who use the "I could play like that, I just choose not to. I'm an artist" excuse.
Mainly because they don't have (pick one) the talent, co-ordination, skill, vocabulary or just plain lazy to actually understand what it takes to actually "play".

IF (!!!) you really didn't care for Mr. Berlin, and you're lying to yourself if you claim you don't, then you would just dismiss his comments and move on.

Instead, you make your point all the more...well...pointless by your little school girl rants and fits of outrage.

Personally, I don't always agree with Mr. Berlin and think his tone is for the birds.
Feel his phrasing is a bit machine like as well. But in NO- ZERO- NADA- ANY capicity would I EVER question his opinion as his record speaks well for itself.
I had the pleasure of meeting the man after a Bx3 show here in Detroit, VERY VERY nice.

If he told me to abandon a current way of learning my craft, I would SERIOUSLY consider it. Even if I disagree.
Again, his record speaks clearly for itself.

And hell, he'll more than likely rip me a complete new one for my above comments regarding him....it's like Michael Jordan slam dunking on you....sure it's embarrising as all hell, but still kinda cool!
 
#89
Fergie Fulton said:
You make my point, so in this situation we have because Jeff knows what bassfool24421 goals are?
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isn't the goal of playing an instrument to make music? how does one make music without the fundamentals?

Fergie Fulton said:
Is it because Jeff knows them that bassfool24421 has no reason to over react and Jeff is right to post such a comment and not expect a reaction?:)
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not my business to answer.
 
#91
JeffBerlin said:
Please name any gig, any situation in music where playing one note is regarded as significant in any way. Name me a show, a recording, a song (even One Note Samba uses lots of the same note).

Everybody can play from their inner self. it is impossible to turn it off. It doesn't need any molding or nurturing. Every kid who ever played meant it. They played with passion and their soul. The problem? Most never learned how to play and (forgive me) but your philosophy of the higher meaning of one note consigns you to this group.

Change your ways and stop being such a philosopher. Be a doer because you will get way more out of playing than by just believing that one note has meaning. Believe me Son! It doesn'! It is another cliche that players who can't play use to justify their lack of ability. THREE MONTHS and you could be three times the player that you are if you learn "The Good Stuff". Good luck!
Click to expand...

the problem jeff is that you assumed i am not doing the learning stuff and labled me as a cliche hippy souls artist..
that is why i went off on this rant..you are not wrong only your style is faulty and your opinions are worthless due to your lack of knowledge of the people you are talking to!!!!
I make fun of people all the time when they do this....just be reasonable and ask and learn before assuming ....and i take back the wishing you ass cancer stuff!
 
#92
The fact that JB is addressing you in a very nice e-tone should at least say something about his character. Whether you like him or not the guy knows what HE believes. The fact that you were so mad about a little comment makes me wonder if you REALLY believe yourself.
 
#94
NicJimBass said:
You can feel good about yourself and your playing all you want, and if you are the only person who will hear your "music" then all is well. If you intend to play music in any sort of public setting, or in a professional setting, all the good feelings and soul searching aren't going to amount to a hill of beans.

There are tons of people who have refused to learn the language of music... you can find them in their bedrooms/ garages, or at the local dive "playing" with their "band".
Click to expand...

+1,000!!!

You can't be a musician with out learning Music

it's just not practical. It's like saying I want to be a scientist, but not take any science classes! ***!?!?

I like to ask my student at the 1st lesson "do you want to lean to play the bass, or learn to be a Bass player?"
 
#95
I'm sad to see how this thread has degenerated.

Sadly, one of the byproducts of the degenration is that it casts Victor's Bass/Nature camp in opposition to Jeff Berlin, which, as Jeff stated, is not his point.
In doing so, it implies that Victor teaches "not music" while Jeff teaches "music".

Unfortunately, Jeff, it's difficult to know what you specifically mean by "music", because while you use the term a great deal in describing what should be taught, I haven't seen you define it. "Music" is one of those lovely concept-words wehre we can all conveniently *think* we're talking about the same thing, but are in fact talking about very different things.
Jeff, I also commend you for dealing calmly and evenly with someone making personal attacks on you. Thanks for that.

I personally learned a great deal about music, about playing music, and about improving my musical ability, particularly in terms of playing the electric bass, at Victor's camp, and this has shown up in a tremendous growth in my abilities, in the gigs that I get and keep, and in the interactions I have with good musicians, since attending the camp.

I'm going to leave it at that here.
 
#98
bassfool24421 said:
the problem jeff is that you assumed i am not doing the learning stuff and labled me as a cliche hippy souls artist..
that is why i went off on this rant..you are not wrong only your style is faulty and your opinions are worthless due to your lack of knowledge of the people you are talking to!!!!
I make fun of people all the time when they do this....just be reasonable and ask and learn before assuming ....and i take back the wishing you ass cancer stuff!
Click to expand...

You assume a lot! How do you know that I don't have knowledge of the poele I am talking to. For almost 30 years, musicians of all kinds have presented their skills, musical and philisophical understanding to me when they came for lessons and they all came in the same. There wasn't one exception in terms of need for anybody. In 30 years, not one guy stood out as being different in any way than another guy in their need to learn. 100% of everybody has the exact same need to learn, not to artisically play, but to learn. You assume that I don't know people over here, but I know them way better than you think I do/ I know you as well and I know what to do if you truly wished to learn how to improve as a player, not as artists, but a player. P.S. Lots of people told me how much they knew and how advanced they were. But, when you sit in front of a music stand and play certain examples of notes and harmony, the truth about a player always, without fail, comes out!
 
#99
standupright said:
isn't the goal of playing an instrument to make music? how does one make music without the fundamentals?
.
Click to expand...

Depends.....define music? I played in a punk band in the 70s, we played one note a fast as we could and shouted obscenities at the crowd, music to us and music to the crowds that came.
Some of the players in that band went on to be serious about music and learn more.
One can make music without fundamentals, understanding it and communicating it to others may be a problem. :)
 
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