Wait what? That's a Fender Squire??

[VWbug]

There are real differences in quality between Squire and MIA, maybe less so with MIA. The real question for buyers these days, is what makes an MIA worth twice the price of a Squier? Is the construction, electronics, and fit/finish really twice as good? That's a tough one to argue, I don't see it, but obviously others do. Since many of the parts are made in the same Indonesian factories, you have to decide how much that pretty headstock decal is worth to you.

Do we always have to have these freaking comments? don't put people down for their choices. There is more to it then a pretty decal

Yup. This kind of "I'm smarter than you" thinking shows up pretty much within the first 12 posts...

 

[VWbug]

Brendanbassix:
No need to get worked up! This is not a personal slam on Fender owners.
I'm suggesting that people who buy MIA fenders over Squiers quantify the real differences and make educated judgements on relative value. IMHO opinion, the differences don't justify the price differential, the balance is attributable to brand loyalty, i.e. The decal. YMMV. This is not some radical statement, people regularly pay a huge premium for a fashionable name, if not, companies like Gucci, Ralph Lauren, and Armani would not be able to sell products identical to their lower cost clones for extortionate prices. If you have the extra cash to pay a logo premium, by all means go for a branded Fender. If you are looking for a very well made, great playing bass with 90% of the utility for 30% of the price, buy a Squier.

... And then, just like the rest of us, you could be totally wrong on a topic.

 

[Deleted member 269102]

Coolness.

I will say this: the stock pots in the VM leave a bit to be desired. Mini Alpha pots. They do work, but the tapers are pretty non-existent. I swapped mine out for full-size ones, all audio taper, and not only are the tapers smoother (still not perfect), but I get a bit more discernable top-end out of the neck pup. Also, wanted to have the more standard-looking plastic turn knobs (kept the brass ones for my project P-bass).

Aside from that, not going to change anything on the bass. I was contemplating taking out the 'Jazz Bass' lettering and replacing it with the late 60s Jazz Bass lettering (because it looks so cool), but nah. Why mess with it now? I was thinking of getting some pre-CBS style tuners, but the stock ones are perfectly fine. They're pretty much the same as on the standard MiMs and from what I can see the American Special, and even the Sire basses.

The stock pots are not the best. Serviceable, but such a cheap and easy upgrade it does make a difference. Need to do that to my Jag, but still flip flopping on dropping in a three way mini switch for P/50-50/J for giggles while I'm in there.

And bingo on the tuners. I've looked at them by side with the MIMs, and can't discern a difference. They hold just as well as the Fenders and not getting any neck drop so why mess with them? Pretty much the last item on my "should I mod this?" list anyway.

 

[nerkoids]

A lot of squiers are nice, but I hate it when people call them Fender Squiers. As if the squier is another fender model like the strat or p-bass. If fender put "Fender" on the headstocks of squiers, people would 1) not feel the need to justify their squier
2) not bash squiers because they have a "real" fender. Believe it or not, some squiers are better than fenders.

Okay, this might perpetuate the row between the two 'camps', but here goes.

Squiers are Fenders. They are the budget brand. Like Epiphone is to Gibson. Squiers are more explicitly so, as anyone who owns a Squier will see in most cases on the headstock that it's Squier by Fender.

They might not be manufactured in a factory owned by either Fender or Gibson (although Gibson does own a factory in China) but they are built to the specs Fender or Gibson requests, and licensed and backed (which it says on the back of the Classic Vibes and the VMs) by Fender and Gibson (for Epiphones)

For all intents and purposes, they are Fenders and Gibsons.

The real argument is about location, manufacturing build and quality of materials -- if there is any inherent difference between them.

As much as a Squier booster that I am -- yes, there is. So many factors, so many choices. The best stock pups for a Jazz bass I've ever heard were on a MiA. The best feel and playability I've tried was on a MiM. Are they worth the 2X or 5x the price (Fenders have become expensive up here in Soviet Canuckistan). For someone who's a recording musician and who doesn't gig - nope. I got all I need with mine.

That's not to say what I have would suffice for someone who gigs several times a week, or is a full-time professional. They might need something that is more tried and true, and aren't into getting a new one every time the current bass they have poops the bed.

 

[nerkoids]

The stock pots are not the best. Serviceable, but such a cheap and easy upgrade it does make a difference. Need to do that to my Jag, but still flip flopping on dropping in a three way mini switch for P/50-50/J for giggles while I'm in there.

And bingo on the tuners. I've looked at them by side with the MIMs, and can't discern a difference. They hold just as well as the Fenders and not getting any neck drop so why mess with them? Pretty much the last item on my "should I mod this?" list anyway.

I hope you make a thread and post pics about that, if you ever do it.

 

[Deleted member 269102]

Okay, this might perpetuate the row between the two 'camps', but here goes.

Squiers are Fenders. They are the budget brand. Like Epiphone is to Gibson. Squiers are more explicitly so, as anyone who owns a Squier will see in most cases on the headstock that it's Squier by Fender.

They might not be manufactured in a factory owned by either Fender or Gibson (although Gibson does own a factory in China) but they are built to the specs Fender or Gibson requests, and licensed and backed (which it says on the back of the Classic Vibes and the VMs) by Fender and Gibson (for Epiphones)

For all intents and purposes, they are Fenders and Gibsons.

The real argument is about location, manufacturing build and quality of materials -- if there is any inherent difference between them.

As much as a Squier booster that I am -- yes, there is. So many factors, so many choices. The best stock pups for a Jazz bass I've ever heard were on a MiA. The best feel and playability I've tried was on a MiM. Are they worth the 2X or 5x the price (Fenders have become expensive up here in Soviet Canuckistan). For someone who's a recording musician and who doesn't gig - nope. I got all I need with mine.

That's not to say what I have would suffice for someone who gigs several times a week, or is a full-time professional. They might need something that is more tried and true, and aren't into getting a new one every time the current bass they have poops the bed.

I wish I could like this post a few more times. As I say in all of these threads, I'm just glad that there are excellent instruments at so many points along the price curve. When I started playing, it was Fender or GTFO. Now there is an actual viable budget line that doesnt suck. Not a bad thing in ANY way.

Personally I rate them MIA/MIJ >> MIM/CV/VM > Affinity. I don't go into any finer grained analysis. Within those three completely subjective tiers I've found gems and serious dogs. If I'm looking for middle of the road, I'll look at MIMs, CVs, and VMs and pick the one that speaks to me, regardless of the headstock. It just happens that I've not found a MIM that did that for me better than a Squier (yet!). Shrug. Works for me

 

[BassFishingInAmerica]

I've found the reverse to be true in my experience. The newer ones sound vastly improved.

Here are the Duncan Designed pups. You just can't beat that tone, especially at 4:00.

 

[bassandkeys42]

Welcome to the club, friend. This baby is my current #1 and I couldn't be more satisfied with the tone! Currently rocking strat-style knobs and fender flats!

 

[nerkoids]

Here are the Duncan Designed pups. You just can't beat that tone, especially at 4:00.

Indeed, it's a nice, round tone for a specific Jazz Bass style with rounds.

I've posted this one several times already (but people seem to like it) Here's my VM with the FD pups, neck/bridge at 10/6:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[BassFishingInAmerica]

Indeed, it's a nice, round tone for a specific Jazz Bass style with rounds.

I've posted this one several times already (but people seem to like it) Here's my VM with the FD pups, neck/bridge at 10/6:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It just goes to show, it's all a matter of taste. Nice sound, but too hollow for me, even without all the reverb. I guess that's why there are dozens of different pups to choose from. To each, his own.

 

[Deleted member 269102]

I guess that's why there are dozens of different pups to choose from. To each, his own.

Perzactly

Now can we just get EMG to make a Geezer jazz set

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Sorry, but the Duncan Design pickups in the older Vintage Modified Squiers sound much better than the Fender Design, IMO. The Duncans are thicker sounding, with more volume and growl. An overall bigger sounding pup.

The biggest complaint I have about my VM Squier is the pickups which sound a bit lifeless. I have a set of old Kent Armstrongs I need to try at some point. Soldering...joy.

 

[wmhill]

i recently sent an email to a friend that works at my local SamAsh ... i asked him to put aside a Yamaha A3CR acoustic/elec for me ... them i was shocked to find out it was Made in China ... !!! *** .. ??

the issue with the China made instruments isn't with the country they are produced in, as much as what the company importing them will allow. The Chinese can build a quality instrument that would easily compare to a US made version, if they were being paid to do so. The importer has the finally say on accepting the quality of what's produced. The stuff they have made in China is all the price point. There are some really nice Chinese basses available, because the importer has set a standard of quality that must be met, and pays a bit more for it. If lowest pricing is the main concern, quality & attention to detail are the first things to compromise on. Play it first, see if you like it, you just might!

 

[brendanbassix]

Okay, this might perpetuate the row between the two 'camps', but here goes.

Squiers are Fenders. They are the budget brand. Like Epiphone is to Gibson. Squiers are more explicitly so, as anyone who owns a Squier will see in most cases on the headstock that it's Squier by Fender.

They might not be manufactured in a factory owned by either Fender or Gibson (although Gibson does own a factory in China) but they are built to the specs Fender or Gibson requests, and licensed and backed (which it says on the back of the Classic Vibes and the VMs) by Fender and Gibson (for Epiphones)

For all intents and purposes, they are Fenders and Gibsons.

The real argument is about location, manufacturing build and quality of materials -- if there is any inherent difference between them.

As much as a Squier booster that I am -- yes, there is. So many factors, so many choices. The best stock pups for a Jazz bass I've ever heard were on a MiA. The best feel and playability I've tried was on a MiM. Are they worth the 2X or 5x the price (Fenders have become expensive up here in Soviet Canuckistan). For someone who's a recording musician and who doesn't gig - nope. I got all I need with mine.

That's not to say what I have would suffice for someone who gigs several times a week, or is a full-time professional. They might need something that is more tried and true, and aren't into getting a new one every time the current bass they have poops the bed.

this is perfect and that's what we should be remembering it's up to the individual to decide value. I think the MIA upgrades worth it but if you don't Im not going to talk your bass down because the last thing i want to do is discourage anyone from playing the best instrument in the world

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Vwbug
Instead of wasting time slamming me for expressing an opinion, which is supposed to be the point of the forum, why not address the substantive question I raised, which is: What makes an MIA Fender worth three to four time the price of a Squire? Since you think I'm out of line asking this question, please be specific in your response, describing exactly which materials, hardware, and electronics, with current market value, would justify an $800 or so differential in price. I'm looking for a rational discussion, not an argument. And yes, I could be dead wrong, maybe I'm missing some crucial difference or well documented superiority that results in audibly better tone or playability? Please tell us what these differences are and how they add up to the price difference. I am not a Fender basher, and don't think I'm smarter than anyone on this forum, please school me with what I don't know about Fenders vs. Squiers. Based on commonly described upgrades to Squiers I've seen on TB, here's what I come up with:
Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounder pups: $64.95
Schaller Fender style tuners:$141.50
(Haven't heard any complaints on Squier tuners, but what the heck, humor me)
CTS pots 3 bulk pack volume/tone : $12.00
Switchcraft jack: $1.98
Copper foil shielding kit: $15.00
Fret level and polish: $150
(Haven't seen a Squier new off the rack that needed it, but that's about the going rate in my area)
New strings of your choice: $35.00

So that's $420.53 for upgrades of questionable necessity.
Let's add them to the going rate for a VM Jazz bass: $329.99 + 420.53 = $750.52
Fender American Standard Jazz on MF: $1,399
Can anybody tell me where the $648.48 difference is coming from? Let's be generous and throw in another $100 to have a luthier install the pickup and electronics upgrades. Now we are down to a difference of roughly $500.

Some other factors: Rolled fingerboard edge - no idea what it would cost to have a luthier do this, but it sounds like a DIY job with fine sandpaper.
(Edit: found a Youtube video where a guy uses the edge of a screwdriver to compress the wood fibers along the edge of the FB. Does not look like rocket science)


Two piece vs. Three or four piece body: with modern CNC manufacturing and adhesives, this seems like a purely aesthetic consideration, and then only if the body is transparent finish. Based on the website info, both Fender and Squier bass bodies are Alder standard, some Squier bodies are basswood as well. personally, I like alder because it dents less easily. I'll leave tonewood debates out of it.


Resale value: no argument there, a Fender will always have higher resale value based on name and reputation alone.

 

[noeinstein]

come on guys this doesn't need to be another MIA vs squiers thread there are hundreds of those already.
What are the pickups they are using in the VMs are they alnicos or ceramic? and yeah the bodies are very light but i don't think they are basswood. The VM squier teles use some type of pine I think maybe it's the same?

My Squier CV P arrived with a chunk out of the body. Looked like pine to me.

 

[Kukulkan61]

500.00 those are 279.00 online

 

[brendanbassix]

Vwbug
Instead of wasting time slamming me for expressing an opinion, which is supposed to be the point of the forum, why not address the substantive question I raised, which is: What makes an MIA Fender worth three to four time the price of a Squire? Since you think I'm out of line asking this question, please be specific in your response, describing exactly which materials, hardware, and electronics, with current market value, would justify an $800 or so differential in price. I'm looking for a rational discussion, not an argument. And yes, I could be dead wrong, maybe I'm missing some crucial difference or well documented superiority that results in audibly better tone or playability? Please tell us what these differences are and how they add up to the price difference. I am not a Fender basher, and don't think I'm smarter than anyone on this forum, please school me with what I don't know about Fenders vs. Squiers. Based on commonly described upgrades to Squiers I've seen on TB, here's what I come up with:
Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounder pups: $64.95
Schaller Fender style tuners:$141.50
(Haven't heard any complaints on Squier tuners, but what the heck, humor me)
CTS pots 3 bulk pack volume/tone : $12.00
Switchcraft jack: $1.98
Copper foil shielding kit: $15.00
Fret level and polish: $150
(Haven't seen a Squier new off the rack that needed it, but that's about the going rate in my area)
New strings of your choice: $35.00

So that's $420.53 for upgrades of questionable necessity.
Let's add them to the going rate for a VM Jazz bass: $329.99 + 420.53 is $750.52
Fender American Standard Jazz on MF: $1,399
Can anybody tell me where the $648.48 difference is coming from? Let's be generous and throw in another $100 to have a luthier install the pickup and electronics upgrades. Now we are down to a difference of roughly $500.

Some other factors: Rolled fingerboard edge - no idea what it would cost to have a luthier do this, but it sounds like a DIY job with fine sandpaper.

Two piece vs. Three or four piece body: with modern CNC manufacturing and adhesives, this seems like a purely aesthetic consideration, and then only if the body is transparent finish.

Resale value: no argument there, a Fender will always have higher resale value based on name and reputation alone.

would you go away???
this topic has been discussed to death last week alone there were 3 threads talking about the differences. Do yourself a favor use the search function and stop trying to bait responses out of people who have different opinions to yours you don't have to be right

 

[Gilmourisgod]

would you go away???
this topic has been discussed to death last week alone there were 3 threads talking about the differences. Do yourself a favor use the search function and stop trying to bait responses out of people who have different opinions to yours you don't have to be right

About what I expected, if you can't argue the merits, just flame the opposition. Classy, dude. I'm out.

 

[Brother Goose]

Maybe I overpaid, I didn't even price shop. I met a store owner who I really liked and decided I was going to buy my next bass from him since he's not one of the big box stores. I talked him down as far as I could and said bag it.

Also, this was surprising to me, I logged onto their website from my iPhone and hit the chat function and got immediate answers. It worked amazing. I highly recommend it

I really appreciate that you have a good attitude about overpaying for a bass that you enjoy and still represents a good value.

Congrats on the new bass!

Having said that- a buck is still a buck and it really irks me that you could have purchased two of those basses for the same amount.

Maybe I'm projecting my personal economics on the situation? (yes)

Maybe I just want someone to buy me a used VM P5 for $200? (very yes)