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Was Jaco completely self taught?
- Thread starter David A. Davis
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IIRC, Pat Metheny taught at the U at a very young age. Sadly, I don't recall whether he had finished his degree or not. I think I remember that he was a student there (at an even younger age, obviously).
Huh. I teach (not music) at the postsecondary level myself, and it's SOP to have at least a Masters. Music certainly differs, because departments and schools want the prestige of having that musician on their faculty regardless of degree, while the "stars" outside fine arts already have the degree credentials the school is looking for.
IIRC, Roberta Flack and Donny Hathaway were in a class taught by Donald Byrd when they were at Howard. That's gotta rank pretty high on the list of non-conservatory classroom experiences...
I am of the mindset that a lack of formal education can actually help create an ignorant musician.
I'm pretty sure he played upright in his high school music program. Hard to believe he never learned any reading at that time, if so.
Paul Jackson, Stanley Clarke, Jeff Berlin, Chris Squire, John Wetton, Pino Palladino, Alphonso Johnson, Vitctor Bailey, Mark Egan, John Paul Jones, Geezer Butler, Rino Zurzolo, Byron Miller, Francisco Centeno .......Aaaaaand:
Here on Bass Guitar/Talkbass I must remind myself that we have Bass Guitarists whose tastes, skills, and preferences range from Lemmy to Jaco to Fieldy to Flea, to Anthony Jackson. (Who have I forgot?)
Like all of us, Jaco was a complete package. If getting to his level included the mood swings I heard of... yeesh.
From what I can tell Jaco did it the old fashioned way. He put in a ton of work. Worked his butt off. He really seemed to want to be the world's greatest bassplayer. And knew what he was up against. So while his exact tact might be interesting I doubt it would help someone do the same. Maybe even difficult to replicate, like going on the road with the CC Riders to develop stamina and precision. And going from there to "Donna Lee".
A lot of people would like to be that great. But few are willing to make the sacrifices.
There are folks out here now who, largely on his back, have taken bassplaying to another level since him. We could always ask them but I think the answer is going to be kind of boring or daunting to most. "Learn your entire fingerboard" is easy to say.
Or you could drink from the firehose with someone like Jacob Collier.
Like all of us, Jaco was a complete package. If getting to his level included the mood swings I heard of... yeesh.
I've heard about those. All I can do is hope is that the music didn't hurt him and be glad he was able to create what he did despite all the stuff in his head.
What? Googling now.
I caught one of his theory conversations I think on Youtube. It was like watching a kid discuss his favorite video game.
Thundercat would be another brain to pick. Different approach.
No, he did not have formal education. His father worked in local big bands and Jaco learned in the classic way on the bandstand for the most part. He didn't learn to read music until 1972 when he was tutored on the band bus by bandmates while he was touring with soul singer Wayne Cochran. It was only four years later that his debut album was released (he wrote all the charts himself) along with his first album with Weather Report and his first with Joni Mitchell. That leaves little question that he had a natural talent for music
According to Jeff Berlin. Jaco was self taught but also studied music. Here is an interesting video.
Edit: I dont think that studying music will get in the way of your creative composition or anything for that matter. A good example is Amadeus Mozart. And Yes... Jaco was a genius.
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Thanks. You have to have time, You have to understand space and dynamics. You have to be able to get off the page and jam unless you want to play in formal orchestras but please don't disparage formal training. I wish my parents would have allowed me to take band or wood shop or auto mechanics in high school as I had to learn all that poopie on my own. I have seen people in bass seminars who have formal training who could not get a groove going to save their ass, but I have been listening to a Ray Brown cd in my car for a couple of weeks now as people in all walks of music call out his genius. I don't have it yet but I wanna keep inculcating into my P brain until some poopie rubs off. The way he does 2/5's is awesome. So in regards to Jaco I watched a weather report and a Jaco dvd over and over and was most impressed with Joe Zawinul on grand piano. What a cast of great players. I am just a pocket bass player but love to hear genius and Jaco was one. Formal training does not impede. Formal training just won't make a player who can't groove all of a sudden groove. But it will give the language to a person with chops but no formal training 1 more tool in the tool box which I miss. I have to ask patient jam or band members what they mean sometimes. YMMV...Aaaaaand:
Here on Bass Guitar/Talkbass I must remind myself that we have Bass Guitarists whose tastes, skills, and preferences range from Lemmy to Jaco to Fieldy to Flea, to Anthony Jackson. (Who have I forgot?)
For my life, I cannot figure out if I taught myself how to eat carrots or if my parents taught me.
There are geniuses who have little understanding of why their notes/chords work but the same genius with formal training, or formal self-training, would certainly not have their creativity hindered or stifled by his/her increased understanding. If somehow you convinced him/her that he could only play diatonically then, yes, but I'm pretty sure that this has never happened. Genius produces what genius comes up with and knowing more things that work can only help induce more creativity in the truly gifted.
There are geniuses who have little understanding of why their notes/chords work but the same genius with formal training, or formal self-training, would certainly not have their creativity hindered or stifled by his/her increased understanding. If somehow you convinced him/her that he could only play diatonically then, yes, but I'm pretty sure that this has never happened. Genius produces what genius comes up with and knowing more things that work can only help induce more creativity in the truly gifted.
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I suppose it's only fitting that this thread has gone completely bipolar.
It can be assumed that practicing like crazy gave him the technique to produce on bass the noises he heard in his mind.
Learning theory introduced him to new possibilities. If a painter doesn't know purple, he might not come up with it on his own but if he sees or is taught purple he may use it in a thoroughly creative way.
My next question is what's considered formal training/education. Of course attending a school would be formal, but what about knee to knee private lessons with a structured curriculum? Or what about the occasional lesson with a teacher at the local music store? Where do you draw the line between formal and self taught?
So "standing in the shadows of Motown" had an an interview with Bob Babbitt and he explained that the music teacher chose him to play bass in high school. He did OK after that IMHO. Don't recall if Jamerson followed the school then real world path too?
Donald Byrd earned a PhD and a JD. I his BA, MA, and PhD were in music.
I never liked carrots all that much.
I'm gonna throw this out and see what sticks and what doesn't.
So far, pretty much everyone in this thread is not only at least somewhat familiar with Jaco's work but is a fan of it. But if this thread were to be left to its own future without the history of mod intervention, you'd also see posts from players who do not like his sound or style and don't care that he was a major influence to many players today. Is he a genius to them? Probably not to most. And to some, he may be nothing more than that guy who played too many notes, got famous for his "schtick" and caused a lot of bass players to play too many notes. He changed the way some of us think of bass playing but there's no consensus even among his fellow bassists that that was a good thing. And I'm sure his influence is even less popular than that among the overall population of musicians who play with bassists.
I still think of him as a genius and a revolutionary, but I'm not sure my feeling that way makes him a genius.
I find it kind of interesting that among my circle of acquaintances and musicians on and offline, players of other instruments often have the same role models or influences that I like to hear in their instruments, and that the general public is accustomed to hearing in their instruments. But my taste in bassists is almost always a bit broader than theirs, and has been a point of contention on ore than one occasion (not at a gig). Maybe it's me and my experiences.
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