Why did Fender fail to capture the 5 String market?

[Brad Johnson]

Design failure? The Fender 5-strings that appeared in the late 90's/early 2000's were a failure, IMHO. Very floppy B strings and lots of weird dead spots.

In the words of bass guru Ed Cannacci (Gelb Music, Redwood City, CA), "The B strings on Fender 5-strings from the late 90's to 2001 or so, just didn't work."

In-line 5-string head stock is the giveaway:

View attachment 3692669

Exact opposite of my experience, specifically with 1997 MIA Jazz Deluxe fives. I used a .125 B and it sounded damn nice, got compliments with it frequently. I did play others with much heavier strings and disliked them. But the string wasn't the bass' fault.

IIRC Sharay Reed played one of these failures too. And loads of my friends.

 

[MrLenny1]

I got my first 5 in 1991 (Pedulla) and Fender did
not have anything appealing at all IMHO.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Floppy B string? Never noticed.



View attachment 3692692



But Fender did themselves no favors when they stopped making the Roscoe Beck 5'r.

Exactly.

 

[scottfeldstein]

Exact opposite of my experience, specifically with 1997 MIA Jazz Deluxe fives. I used a .125 B and it sounded damn nice, got compliments with it frequently. I did play others with much heavier strings and disliked them. But the string wasn't the bass' fault.

IIRC Sharay Reed played one of these failures too. And loads of my friends.

Mine sounds great, it just doesn't play right.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Mine sounds great, it just doesn't play right.

What does that mean? A setup issue?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yes, and to great effect:

Kind of amazing what he got out of a bad bass.


IME with five string players, most I've come across want the bass to adapt to them. So when the results aren't optimal, must be the bass' fault. What screws that up is when someone else can play the same bass with better results. Which happens a lot.

 

[Shawn Denny]

I have read some stories about Fender and the first 5-string bass. It had only 15 frets and a high C...and wasn't accepted by any players then in 1965...

But what happened after that? There was no other Powerhouse in the game like Fender. We know that 10 years later Jimmy Johnson worked with Alembic to create one of the first five strings with a low B, a bass we now consider to be the template based on the modern 5-string. For a full 10 years or more Fender gave up on the concept?

My question is this... why wasn't Fender able to establish the same powerful foothold in the 5-string market as they did with the P bass and Jazz Bass? Were they that bad? My thinking leads me to believe that a 5-string was considered a very heavily specialized instrument at the time and not as ubiquitous as it is today.

To an extent even in 2020, I still feel that is true and although Fender today makes great 5 string basses, they still pale in comparison to the P and Jazz 4-string dominance of yesteryear and today.

Since the modern 5 string became a thing, why have Fenders become a secondary 5 string option to other brands? Were they unable to produce a quality instrument in the early years? Did other brands simply establish themselves before Fender for 5 string basses?

I'm sure they captured a decent portion of the market at one point or another but for a company as dominant as Fender was, their 5-string business seems like an overall failure. JMHO.

The answer to this question is The Stingray 5 in '87, but I'm not biased or anything

 

[Brad Johnson]

I'm not sure how Fender doesn't have a very strong foothold in the five string market. From Squiers to the US basses. Unlike a lot of other fives, they sound and play like Fenders.

The early Bass V was just an odd duck. Elongated body, ultra short neck, cute little pickup. Other than playing positions you could do the same on a four which sounded markedly better.

My first five was a very early Ari Pro II which had very narrow spacing... string spacing was an afterthought at the time. It was disappointing so I built my next one, a fretless jazz with a modified P bass neck. Better but not quite there. The next was a 1984 Tobias. Finally... this was what a five was capable of.

My first low B was on a Kramer Duke four string. I used a .110 E for the B. Big fun. Taught myself better string control on that one.

 

[scottfeldstein]

What does that mean? A setup issue?

As I have said before, it just won't take a string height below 6/64s on the B without buzz. No matter what neck straightness I put on it. My Warwick laughs as it passes 6, through 5, and almost to 4 without a problem. And I had to shim the Fender neck to get it this good!

 

[Garry Raines]

I don't know much about other 5-string basses, but I've played my 1992 5-string Jazz Plus since 1994. I love it still. I don't know if the B string is floppy compared to other 5ers, but it plays like butter to me. The sound from the active lace sensor pickups suits me to a T. I've played classic rock, modern and classic country, Carolina beach music, R&B, funk, and recently added modern praise & worship on this bass, and it has worked well in any genre.

 

[selowitch]

I think the Dimension five-strings were really nice.
Personally, I play a 2001 StingRay 5H and I'm happy.
I really like my four-string Fenders.

 

[David Jayne]

I find myself pondering this too. A string rests on two witness points - why should it matter what else is there?

It's all about the stiffness of the neck. IMO that's 'what else is there.'

 

[Brad Johnson]

As I have said before, it just won't take a string height below 6/64s on the B without buzz. No matter what neck straightness I put on it. My Warwick laughs as it passes 6, through 5, and almost to 4 without a problem. And I had to shim the Fender neck to get it this good!

Again, simply not true IME. I can't speak to yours.

 

[Brad Johnson]

It's all about the stiffness of the neck. IMO that's 'what else is there.'

And the player. I know players who can make just about anything sound cringeworthy.

 

[selowitch]

And the player. I know players who can make just about anything sound cringeworthy.

And we also know some players who can make a crappy bass with a terrible setup sound great.

 

[scottfeldstein]

Again, simply not true IME. I can't speak to yours.

Here I must concede that it could be an individual instrument issue. Wood is, after all, an agricultural product and you never know what you get until you get it. I can only relate my own experience with these instruments.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I don't know much about other 5-string basses, but I've played my 1992 5-string Jazz Plus since 1994. I love it still. I don't know if the B string is floppy compared to other 5ers, but it plays like butter to me. The sound from the active lace sensor pickups suits me to a T. I've played classic rock, modern and classic country, Carolina beach music, R&B, funk, and recently added modern praise & worship on this bass, and it has worked well in any genre.

This is why I say you have to shut out the chatter and trust your own ears and hands. If you like the sound and how the bass plays, it is fine for you. You are gigging steadily, it must sound good to others too.

 

[David Jayne]

And we also know some players who can make a crappy bass with a terrible setup sound great.

Sure, but a crap B sounds crap if you're looking for bright, snappy tone. Doesn't mean a good player can't make music with it though.

 

[jellymax]

clearly, Sharay is playing out of the back pickup mostly. doesn't matter how low
the action is.

 

[Auspuff]

I have read some stories about Fender and the first 5-string bass. It had only 15 frets and a high C...and wasn't accepted by any players then in 1965...

But what happened after that? There was no other Powerhouse in the game like Fender. We know that 10 years later Jimmy Johnson worked with Alembic to create one of the first five strings with a low B, a bass we now consider to be the template based on the modern 5-string. For a full 10 years or more Fender gave up on the concept?

My question is this... why wasn't Fender able to establish the same powerful foothold in the 5-string market as they did with the P bass and Jazz Bass? Were they that bad? My thinking leads me to believe that a 5-string was considered a very heavily specialized instrument at the time and not as ubiquitous as it is today.

To an extent even in 2020, I still feel that is true and although Fender today makes great 5 string basses, they still pale in comparison to the P and Jazz 4-string dominance of yesteryear and today.

Since the modern 5 string became a thing, why have Fenders become a secondary 5 string option to other brands? Were they unable to produce a quality instrument in the early years? Did other brands simply establish themselves before Fender for 5 string basses?

I'm sure they captured a decent portion of the market at one point or another but for a company as dominant as Fender was, their 5-string business seems like an overall failure. JMHO.

A very politically charged post.