Zeitgeist - Have yu watched it yet?

[Basshole]

I'm just trying to prove a point about the FILM, not about religion. People (and basshole) are bringing religion into it because they can't support their claims or debate mine sensibly.

Fantastic inversion of the truth!

 

[Basshole]

Religious threads are allowed in OT now?

Nope. Still not allowed, as far as I know...but my simple request was ignored.

We WERE discussing a FILM, that among other things, touches on religion. Sadly, the moment anything remotely challenges certain people's faith, they take it as a signal to mount an all-out attack on it.

This thread will now sadly be locked, in all likelihood...but that's probably what Disco wanted anyway.

 

[The BurgerMeister]

"let's all go to the lobby, let's all go to the lobby, let's all go the lobby, and have us some attacks."

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[CBRStingray]

Fantastic inversion of the truth!

I'm still waiting for you to show me where I claimed the bible was fact.

I'm also waiting for you to show me how the stories are similar.

Hell, I'd be happy for you to show me any evidence in support of the film.

 

[seventhson]

The bible says something about the life of Jesus, and Egyptian mythology says something about the life of Horus. The film claims that both stories are the same. They aren't. Regardless of of if the stories are true or not, they are in no way similar. The FACT is that the film lies. The stories are not at all similar.

ok, i see your point. you are saying that the film lies when saying that Christian mythology (or religion if you prefer) is very similar to Egyptian mythology with regards to a virgin birth.

if you want to apply a legal scalpel to *one* thing that was said as a basis for calling the *whole effort* a complete lie, then go ahead. This site does agree that there is some question as to whether horus had a virgin birth Link Removed, but all the other similarities are pretty striking.

also keep in mind that there is no dispute that many of the stories of the New Testament were interwoven with Egyptian stories and legends to make the transition from the old religion easier. The early Roman Church did the same in Europe with the Pagan/Druidic faiths for the same reason. That's why we have Christmas trees, Advent wreaths, etc. where the early church didn't. Also has more than a little to do with why Christian holidays coincide with Jewish ones.

 

[Scarlet Fire]

That's funny...considering nearly everyone appearing in the film is a Ph.D.

I'd say there's a lot of nonsense...but it's in this thread.

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The Ph.Ds you reference were misinterpreted on the film. Their footage was edited to fit the ideas presented in the movie.


Go read some books on Quantum Mechanics and psychology. You'll see that the scientific concepts they're bastardizing simply cannot be applied in this fashion.

 

[vene-nemesis]

Actually i have to complain, because even though the film has religious parts there are other things remarkable too, and i am dissapointed because some of you guys cant stand that there is ppl with diferent points of view than yours and youre whiling to go as far as breaking TB rules just for the fun of it, because in fact youre not aporting anything valid to this thread either.

So would it be too much to ask you to stop?

 

[Basshole]

Show me how. Prove it.

Nope. I asked you first. You said the film contained lies. I asked you to prove it, and not using the Bible. You can't.

Now, you can't argue this here with the Bible for two reasons:

1) It's against forum rules
2) Using the Bible to defend the legitimacy of the Bible is absurd. I can write any book, and challenge everything that opposes it with the "truth" that I have "declared" in that book. It's an insane argument. It only seems sane to you because of your faith. If you are able to look at it pragmatically, you'd understand that you can't defend the validity of something by citing that very something as the source of verification!

 

[CBRStingray]

ok, i see your point. you are saying that the film lies when saying that Christian mythology (or religion if you prefer) is very similar to Egyptian mythology with regards to a virgin birth.

if you want to apply a legal scalpel to *one* thing that was said as a basis for calling the *whole effort* a complete lie, then go ahead.

but keep in mind that there is no dispute that many of the stories of the New Testament were interwoven with Egyptian stories and legends to make the transition from the old religion easier. The early Roman Church did the same in Europe with the Pagan/Druidic faiths for the same reason. That's why we have Christmas trees, Advent wreaths, etc. where the early church didn't. Also has more than a little to do with why Christian holidays coincide with Jewish ones.

Close. I was actually saying it lies regarding the similarities between the entire story of the life of Jesus and all the other religious figures.

That was the premise that all of part I was built upon - that the stories of all the religious figures are nearly identical. But they aren't. There just aren't any of the similarities that they claim exist.

 

[CBRStingray]

Nope. I asked you first. You said the film contained lies. I asked you to prove it, and not using the Bible. You can't.

Now, you can't argue this here with the Bible for two reasons:

1) It's against forum rules
2) Using the Bible to defend the legitimacy of the Bible is absurd. I can write any book, and challenge everything that opposes it with the "truth" that I have "declared" in that book. It's an insane argument. It only seems sane to you because of your faith. If you are able to look at it pragmatically, you'd understand that you can't defend the validity of something by citing that very something as the source of verification!

Nice try, troll.

I never used the bible to defend anything.

Can't find any evidence to support the movie, hey? I'm not really surprised.

 

[funkalicious101]

If anything, Jesus seems more like an amalgamation of the Hindu gods Shiva (the ascetic and the provider) and Krishna (Vishnu's incarnation of the perfect human).

 

[Basshole]

there is no dispute that many of the stories of the New Testament were interwoven with Egyptian stories and legends to make the transition from the old religion easier. The early Roman Church did the same in Europe with the Pagan/Druidic faiths for the same reason. That's why we have Christmas trees, Advent wreaths, etc. where the early church didn't.

Actually, much of what is "celebrated" as religion today is in fact nothing but recycled Pagan rituals and celebrations...including the placing of Christ's birthday on December 25th (something Disco is actually trying to twist as a reason to discount the film, when the film in fact points this very fact out).

 

[Basshole]

Nice try, troll.

No sir...it is you who are the troll here. You have ignored my reguest to keep the Bible out of this thread, and you are clearly attempting to get this thread closed by dragging the discussion of a MOVIE that covers MANY TOPICS into a gutterball slugfest about Religion.

Troll? Ha.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[The BurgerMeister]

This site does agree that there is some question as to whether horus had a virgin birth Link Removed, but all the other similarities are pretty striking.

interesting!

 

[CBRStingray]

No sir...it is you who are the troll here. You have ignored my reguest to keep the Bible out of this thread, and you are clearly attempting to get this thread closed by dragging the discussion of a MOVIE that covers MANY TOPICS into a gutterball slugfest about Religion.

Troll? Ha.

Pot, meet kettle.

You are obviously too lazy to search for yourself, so I'll humour you for the moment.

Off the top of my head:

1. The film starts by claiming that the story of Christ is essentially the same as the story of approximately 30 other religious figures. It makes specific reference to alleged parallels between the story of Christ and the story of the Egyptian god 'Horus'. However, the story of Horus in no way parallels that of Christ. Horus was not born of a virgin (his mother had intercourse with a dismembered penis), was not born on the 25th of December, did not have 12 disciples, did not become a teacher at age 12, did not walk on water, did not get baptised when he was 30, did not got into hiding until he was 30, and he was not crucified. The film claims that all of those things happened according to Egyptian mythology. In reality, NONE of those things are even mentioned in the story of Horus according to Egyptian mythology. There are many more inaccuracies pertaining to the story of Horus, but I can't be bothered explaining them all. See here: http://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/horus.html and here Link Removed and here Link Removed

2. The film claims that Horus, Jesus, and approximately 30 other religious figures are claimed to have been born on the 25th of December. This appears to be a key point in the argument because the film makers claim that all the stories share the same details, including the birth date. In reality, none of them were or ever claimed to be born on the 25th. It is thought by most scholars that Jesus was born around the spring time, while the birth of Horus was supposedly on the last day of the Egyptian month of Khoiak, around the 15th of November.

3. The film claims that Jesus the person never existed, despite literary evidence to the contrary. The following was taken from wikipedia:

Michael Grant stated (in 1977) that the view is derived from a lack of application of historical methods:

…if we apply to the New Testament, as we should, the same sort of criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus' existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned. ... To sum up, modern critical methods fail to support the Christ myth theory. It has 'again and again been answered and annihilated by first rank scholars.' In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary.[75]

The main sources of information regarding Jesus' life and teachings are the gospels. Most scholars in the fields of history and biblical studies agree that Jesus was a Galilean Jew, was regarded as a teacher and healer, was baptized by John the Baptist, and was crucified in Jerusalem on orders of Roman Governor Pontius Pilate, on the charge of sedition against the Roman Empire.[5][6] Most critical scholars believe that ancient texts on Jesus' life are at least partially accurate[7] [8]

Whether you believe that He was God incarnate or not, the reality is that He did exist as a a person. Even the critics concede that. The film, however, ignored the work of hundreds of scholars and historians and the vast majority of knowledgeable critics and intellectuals and wrote him off as a myth, without providing any evidence or backing up the claim.

There are countless more inaccuracies, a large number to do with the Mithra/Jesus parallel.

I'm not going to go into more detail because it's late. You know why the film makers didn't back up any of their idiotic claims? Because they can't. Why don't you do a little research yourself rather than believing what you are told to believe. You'd be surprised at how inaccurate the film is.

Really? I brought the bible into it? Where? I see some references to Egyptian mythology websites, and some reference to articles on wikipedia... but no bible verses...

Your basic reading/comprehensive skills are pitiful, and your attempts at trolling are getting old. You've contributed nothing intelligent to this thread. Do us all a favor, and stop posting.

 

[funkalicious101]

Actually, much of what is "celebrated" as religion today is in fact nothing but recycled Pagan rituals and celebrations...including the placing of Christ's birthday on December 25th (something Disco is actually trying to twist as a reason to discount the film, when the film in fact points this very fact out).

Christianity is far more syncretic than most like to believe.

 

[Basshole]

Do us all a favor, and stop posting.

I'll stop posting, you stop preaching.

AIGHT??

/Audi

 

[CBRStingray]

Well, I've had enough. I've made my point and it's pretty clear to anyone who has taken the time to read and think. To those of you who actually contributed intelligently, thanks.

It's obvious that there are certain people here who are incapable of rational thought and basic comprehension. It's shame really. What started out as a discussion about a film was ruined because these people can't separate their dislike of an unrelated issue from the topic at hand.

 

[Basshole]

Invalid Link Removed

The Ph.Ds you reference were misinterpreted on the film. Their footage was edited to fit the ideas presented in the movie.

Thanks for that. It helps me to try and define the truths within that film. I fully expect that only about 30% of anything presented nearly ANYWHERE is true.

I grew up in show business. I was present during many interviews, and have given a number of them myself. Despite pads and pencils, and even tape recorders being present and in use, never ONCE did I see anyone surpass 30% accuracy.

I do not represent any of these films as being much more than 30% accurate, but I'd have to say that the evening news (and the church...ANY church) is probably even MORE biased.

I always try to get my info from as many sources as possible, full well knowing that the "batting average" on truth is at best probably about 300.

 

[Basshole]

Well, I've had enough. I've made my point and it's pretty clear to anyone who has taken the time to read and think. To those of you who actually contributed intelligently, thanks.

It's obvious that there are certain people here who are incapable of rational thought and basic comprehension. It's shame really. What started out as a discussion about a film was ruined because these people can't separate their dislike of an unrelated issue from the topic at hand.

First damn post of yours I agree with completely!