5 string basses should be 35” scale

[dkelley]

Tension vs scale length is squared rather than linear (according to all the formulas I just found online). Changing from 34" to 35" scale with the same strings results in 5.9% higher tension. Still a small difference. For comparison, a 34" bass has 28% higher tension than a 30" bass with the same strings.

I have yet to play a multiscale but my issue with my 34" 5 string is how different the tone is across the strings rather than the tension. So I don't see how a straight 35" would solve that at all. I'm hoping to try a multiscale soon.

yea, that's why I DON'T use very heavy B strings... I prefer very light (relatively speaking) B strings, since they sound like the rest of the bass, more or less, rather than alien if they get into 125 or 130 gauge (which is very heavy for a B imho).

 

[FunkHead]

a 34" bass has 28% higher tension than a 30" bass with the same strings.

Sorry but No. That's not how it works. Otherwise you'd have a negative number for tension at the 10th fret.

If you want a real world feel for 35" vs. 34" scale, Just fret the F (1st fret) on your 4 string. There's no discernible difference.

As you fret higher up the neck, You are essentially reducing the scale(17" at 12th fret) of the speaking length of the string. There is no noticeable difference provided you have a setup within spec.

 

[MovinTarget]

Sorry but No. That's not how it works. Otherwise you'd have a negative number for tension at the 10th fret.

If you want a real world feel for 35" vs. 34" scale, Just fret the F (1st fret) on your 4 string. There's no discernible difference.

Not quite. You would have to have identical strings on the bass, one tuned a half step off the other so that when one is fretted they have the same pitch.

Then you'll notice there is a slight difference in tension. It may not be enough to through *you* off but others may not like it for their playstyle.

You can then repeat this experiment, down-tuning one of the identical strings and then fretting it at the theoretical open string distance of different scales. Then you will be able to hear/feel the difference between a 35" B, a 34" B and say, a Ibanez Mikro 28.5" B and judge for yourself the acceptable level of tension for a given string.

 

[Xhaxo]

What’s next? i’d recommend trying a multiscale bass. I tried a cheap Redsub, with a 34” / 35.5” multiscale and the B string felt so much better than on the 34” 5-strings I’ve owned. For keeps, I’m considering the Ibanez SRMS805, but haven’t had a chance to play one yet.
anyone on here have one?

 

[FunkHead]

Not quite. You would have to have identical strings on the bass, one tuned a half step off the other so that when one is fretted they have the same pitch.

Then you'll notice there is a slight difference in tension. It may not be enough to through *you* off but others may not like it for their playstyle.

You can then repeat this experiment, down-tuning one of the identical strings and then fretting it at the theoretical open string distance of different scales. Then you will be able to hear/feel the difference between a 35" B, a 34" B and say, a Ibanez Mikro 28.5" B and judge for yourself the acceptable level of tension for a given string.

I disagree. Down tuning obviously lowered the tension.
Fretting one fret up more closely simulates a shorter scale! The string is still tuned to pitch but now the 1st fret is roughly where the Nut would be on the shorter scale.

That is a much better way to experiment.

The last thing we'd want is people with 35" scale down-tuning a 1/2 step and thinking that that's what a 34" scale would feel/sound/play like. Which is 100% not the case.

 

[MovinTarget]

I disagree. Down tuning obviously lowered the tension.
Fretting one fret up more closely simulates a shorter scale! The string is still tuned to pitch but now the 1st fret is roughly where the Nut would be on the shorter scale.

That is a much better way to experiment.

The last thing we'd want is people with 35" scale down-tuning a 1/2 step and thinking that that's what a 34" scale would feel/sound/play like. Which is 100% not the case.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were suggesting. I thought you were saying that fretting the string at the first fret is the same as playing a 34" scale. If that is what you meant then I disagree. If its 35" scale and you fret the E string at the first fret, you are no longer getting an E, you are getting an F which means you would have to downtune in order to fret an E at the first position. Once you downtune you see that tension would be lower, of course.

Now lets back up and look at from the OP:
Assertion 34" B < 35" B at least partly due to tension.

So on a 35" 5 string you could emulate the assertion by downtuning 1/2 step and then fretting at the first. That would give you similar tension to an open B on a 34"

 

[Hot rod pickup]

yea, that's why I DON'T use very heavy B strings... I prefer very light (relatively speaking) B strings, since they sound like the rest of the bass, more or less, rather than alien if they get into 125 or 130 gauge (which is very heavy for a B imho).

I like all of the discussion here. I have a similar problem except, it seems my 34" bass has a same "rubber band" feel but also a fret buzz on the first fret. I've also bought a 35"maple neck thru body and still have the same problem. I used a reputable luthier replaced the nut with multiple changes to it and still am at a loss'

I have tried from 115 to 130 and no change . BTW I have played a bass that the B doesn't suffer from and I would find that bass but don't remember the brand. Some of you who don't have the problem did not reville your low B size. Do any of you know what brand of strings come on an Ibanez bass? When i bought it the B worked well but with other strings...no joy.

 

[Jon Clarke]

The string is key, at least for me. Many years ago I discovered the La Bella Super Steps.
I only use them on the B string (128). Extremely focused and tight all the way up the neck (that's very rare). There is no winding where the string meets the saddle, so you will have to adjust the string height.
Hard to find single strings, unfortunately, but this is by far the best sounding B string I've yet to find, whether the bass has a 34" or 35" inch neck.

 

[FunkHead]

The string is key, at least for me. Many years ago I discovered the La Bella Super Steps.
I only use them on the B string (128). Extremely focused and tight all the way up the neck (that's very rare). There is no winding where the string meets the saddle, so you will have to adjust the string height.
Hard to find single strings, unfortunately, but this is by far the best sounding B string I've yet to find, whether the bass has a 34" or 35" inch neck.

This exactly! Tapered B strings are the best B strings. The Sadowsky 125T on a 34" Sadowsky is my best B string out of dozens in a 30 year span. Even dropped a whole step(for Polyamorous by Breaking Benjamin) it was fantastic.

 

[David Lewicki]

Floppy B strings are intolerable.

Leo made the modern bass at guitar 34” scale to accommodate 4 strings. It is perfect for that specific purpose. Years ago I switched to 5 string and got an American Deluxe Jazz V. It was beautiful, sounded great, but the low B felt a bit like a rubber band.

Years later, Musicman Stingray 5. I loved that bass. It was slightly better with the low B. Still didn’t feel right. At the same time I played an Ibanez 6 string for solo bass arrangements. The high C was fun but that low B was rubber city.

Then I got a Lakland 55-02. Dammit, they got it right. The 5th string is taught, clear, and feels like a natural extension of the bass. It’s big, no doubt. I had to adapt to it but it’s the best 5 string I have ever owned.

My query is, what’s next? Does Sadowsky make a 35” 5 string? I want to get my high end, forever bass at this point in my life. I have pondered owning a Sadowsky for the build quality and tone. Does the B string sing with clarity? Should I go with an American Lakland? What are your thoughts?

Play what you like! My position is controversial for sure. It’s also purely experiencial. Maybe I haven’t found the right 34” 5 string yet…

My 1993 Ken Smith CR5 is 34" and I always thought the B string was good, but not great. Then I got my 2002 Modulus Quantum 5, 35" scale, and viola! Beautiful, clean, seamless B string at last. But the Modulus has a carbon fiber neck, so I didn't know if it was the neck or the scale that made the difference. Later I bought an Ibanez Gary Willis fretless 5 34", and it too has a great B string. (But I agree with you, when I've tried a Fender Jazz 5, I thought the B was terrible.) I've also found by playing these 3 basses for a while that string choice makes a big difference. In general, lighten up on the low end (B & E) gauges and fatten the high end (G) and then adjust your EQ to get a better overall balance with a 5 string. Don't let the B get too boomy nor the G get too thin and you'll be much happier. I've found that .125" on the B is a big as I want to go, .120" even better, and no thinner than .045 on the G. The less mass you have to move to vibrate that B, the brighter and better matched with the E it will be. And the fatter G will allow you to bring up the high end EQ over all without it becoming too tinny. I'd also recommend thinning the E to no more than .100".

 

[Hot rod pickup]

That's a rather unproductive view though, since there are others here besides you who are also experienced, capable, talented, picky, etc, just as you are. Don't you think? Recognizing that others here state they have found different results.. that opens the door to discuss why. There must be reasons why, and most likely found in physics, not in subjective impressions.

WE all care about our tone, some of us very very much, in my case. I think we can communicate just fine using the shared language of English in this case, and being analytical, and try to diagnose the cause of our different experiences.

I suggested one very possible reason. Most bassists increase the thickness of the low B string to make ti sound better. I have always gone the other way, for the simple reason that a lighter mass, and a more similar build structure to the next string, makes it sound like the rest of the bass, and makes it sound better as you go up the frets into higher positions.

This is from a lot of experimenting. Like, a lot, recording, playing back, discussing with string manufacturers, and so forth.

So I'm suggesting that could well be the reason why I don't experience the tone loss at 34" scale on the B string that most people think is the crucial difference to 35" scale.

For "floppiness", the topic of this particular thread, I have always found that the string stiffness affects that more than scale length or string gauge. There are plenty of strings that are quite stiff, move notably less far when plucked, and allow for a lower action without buzzing... DR low-riders for example.

I should also note that I'm not very big - 5'7" - and have average sized hands - not small, but not big either. So for me, stretching to 35" and longer scale length is not comfortable, since for almost 40 years of playing 34" scale basses I know exactly where the frets are without looking, and 35" scale does mess with that. I can go shorter and work through it fine, but longer really messes with me. So that is a negative for me, and no doubt affects me outlook on the value of 35" or higher scale length. Also I can't play multiscale very well, from my experience trying. I'm too used to jumping around and playing my way, sight reading music and not having to look at my left hand, and switching to fretless.... all of which are affected, at least for me, in muscle memory by changing scale length or going multiscale.

I prefer 34" scale for that reason, and because I don't hear or feel anything lacking in B strings (or lower) at 34" scale.

Will you tell me the other brands you've tried and scale size. lausd@ymail

 

[JonEHop]

I was rushing out the door and garbled my message! I'll start over: I have a 34" Stephen Sukop Bass with LaBella Flatwounds, 45/65/85/105/125. There is no flabby, wobbly sound from the B string. It is very strong and tight. Really a great sound!!

 

[Hot rod pickup]

Round wounds?
Thank you to all.

 

[Marlon Carbone]

I play 7 string basses exclusively (see my profile pic). I have one bass that's 35" scale, 3 that are 34" scale, and one that is multi-scale (33.2"-35"). I use slightly thicker strings on my 34's... or maybe I use slightly thinner strings on my 35's. Either way... I've used a string calculator to assure that all of my strings are pulling the same tension (all basses, all strings). That was key for me.

 

[Gordon Mills]

I own 5 basses with a low B. None have the problems you refer to...

 

[Harold Runyan]

Floppy B strings are intolerable.

Leo made the modern bass at guitar 34” scale to accommodate 4 strings. It is perfect for that specific purpose. Years ago I switched to 5 string and got an American Deluxe Jazz V. It was beautiful, sounded great, but the low B felt a bit like a rubber band.

Years later, Musicman Stingray 5. I loved that bass. It was slightly better with the low B. Still didn’t feel right. At the same time I played an Ibanez 6 string for solo bass arrangements. The high C was fun but that low B was rubber city.

Then I got a Lakland 55-02. Dammit, they got it right. The 5th string is taught, clear, and feels like a natural extension of the bass. It’s big, no doubt. I had to adapt to it but it’s the best 5 string I have ever owned.

My query is, what’s next? Does Sadowsky make a 35” 5 string? I want to get my high end, forever bass at this point in my life. I have pondered owning a Sadowsky for the build quality and tone. Does the B string sing with clarity? Should I go with an American Lakland? What are your thoughts?

I’ve owned a couple of Lakland Skylines, a 55-01 and a 55-02. Both felt really nice but I liked the sound of the 01 best. I found a Yamaha TRB II 5 string and subsequently sold both Laklands. I currently own the Yamaha and a Music Man Stingray Special 5 that’s a 34” scale. Very different basses which (in my mind at least) justifies keeping both. If I were to buy a new 5 string it would likely be a Sandberg Booster 5 with the 35” scale. YMMV!

 

[Aussie Player]

If your only reason is string tension, you're using the wrong gauge string.

I think this is a good point.
I never heard of rubbery B strings until I read it here. I have had a couple of Fender Jazz 5's and never experienced it with the SIT medium gauge strings I prefer so maybe that it the answer? Same deal with my Alembic Essence 5, SIT strings and there is no issue.

 

[Whitebeard]

Floppy B strings are intolerable.

Leo made the modern bass at guitar 34” scale to accommodate 4 strings. It is perfect for that specific purpose. Years ago I switched to 5 string and got an American Deluxe Jazz V. It was beautiful, sounded great, but the low B felt a bit like a rubber band.

Years later, Musicman Stingray 5. I loved that bass. It was slightly better with the low B. Still didn’t feel right. At the same time I played an Ibanez 6 string for solo bass arrangements. The high C was fun but that low B was rubber city.

Then I got a Lakland 55-02. Dammit, they got it right. The 5th string is taught, clear, and feels like a natural extension of the bass. It’s big, no doubt. I had to adapt to it but it’s the best 5 string I have ever owned.

My query is, what’s next? Does Sadowsky make a 35” 5 string? I want to get my high end, forever bass at this point in my life. I have pondered owning a Sadowsky for the build quality and tone. Does the B string sing with clarity? Should I go with an American Lakland? What are your thoughts?

I had a beautiful Spector USA 5 string with a 35" scale and the B didn't cut it for me. I want definitive notes. I went back to being a 4 string player. I think Dingwall has solved the problem using a fanned multi-scale layout. I haven't played one but I have heard Lee Scalar demo his Dingwall and it sounded great. Scale is B=37", E=36.25, A=35.5, D=34.75, G=34. How Leland Sklar Discovered 'Fan Fret' Basses (Bass Tales Ep.11) - Bing video

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

Warwick has never been a problem, even tuned A...

But, ya spend some time on your meticulous set up!

 

[bobsax]

I had a beautiful Spector USA 5 string with a 35" scale and the B didn't cut it for me. I want definitive notes. I went back to being a 4 string player. I think Dingwall has solved the problem using a fanned multi-scale layout. I haven't played one but I have heard Lee Scalar demo his Dingwall and it sounded great. Scale is B=37", E=36.25, A=35.5, D=34.75, G=34. How Leland Sklar Discovered 'Fan Fret' Basses (Bass Tales Ep.11) - Bing video

Aren’t there some other fanned fret five and six string instruments? Doesn’t Ibanez make one?