Adventures in auditions, jealous GF edition.

[richntiff]

The OP is taking it entirely on the basis that she's a woman, and a self-proclaimed attractive woman, and that the band members are thinking with their man-bits on all of this. Then she says I'm apparently "Closed(sic)-minded" about all of this. No... I don't think so.

I suppose the subtleties of my later responses kinda got lost in the mix. While I started by arguing that the anxiety of a wife of a band-member might be a legitimate problem, after some replies from the OP and such, I came to the conclusion they likely didn't take her because someone came in and auditioned after her and gave them more of what they were really looking for, musically.

Just because you audition, doesn't mean you get the gig, and yes, I've gotten gigs where the previous bass player got shown the door after less than an entire song play-through. I heard it happen outside the rehearsal-room door, in my case.

Does this response make it more obvious?

EDITED to soften tone, a little.

I reported this post as well as one of your others. Being abusive is not contributing anything to this thread.

 

[richntiff]

Hah, I pretty much agree with the we're all dudes bit, growing up in the bay area and then living in Santa Barbara for the better part of a decade. Its very much a thing here, less so than some parts of the world...
Anyways, in the context of relationships and other stuff... well its complicated, first about me: I'm super duper queer. Married to an awesome woman, we have a kick ass kid, I work in aerospace engineering/mfg, and I generally have the social skills of a sack of potatoes and am a-typical of of the experiences that a lot of people have. In short, a lot of people expect me to be and act one way based on my appearance, and its just not the case.
So how does this apply to what I said about some of the sort of cis-het normative things that people do in their relationships? Quite a bit, but its less important from my existence, experiences and other garbage and to do with how other people tend to see others and interact with them.

We as people only have our own unique expectations of others to guide how we choose to interact with someone upon meeting them for the first time, or as a series of interactions forms into a meaningful relationship. You see it a lot in more in topics of race or identity politics and it generally turns into a messy cluster -fsk real quick when that happens. In this specific context of band goofyness and this dude and his gf, well, there is some bizarre jealousy that I admittedly don't fully understand, but its something that we generally see in society as a whole.
I guess an easier example would be some of the tropes about male - female dynamics in relationships when it comes to interaction between partners and their friends and nights out with the guys or nights out with the girls.
(I really hope this makes sense, Coffee isn't kicking in yet...)
I guess a clear example is seeing a group of women on a tv show, and someone in that fictional group makes a comment about their bf doing something and then the group chiming about dumping his ass over some tiny issue or other dumb thing. yeh, its fiction but garbage like that does happen.

There are a lot of social norms that we tend to force on others without really seeing/realizing them and it takes a LOT of effort to really even start seeing them much less moving past them for most people.

Anyways, hope this sort of made sense... having long nuanced discussions on social functions and behavior is not something I'm good at. I can do a much better job telling someone how to design and build a gimbal for a spacecraft....

posts like this one reinforce by thought that TB needs a ‘love this post’ tag along with the ‘like’ tag. Very well stated - even when caffeine challenged

 

[Mike Whitfield]

The OP is taking it entirely on the basis that she's a woman, and a self-proclaimed attractive woman, and that the band members are thinking with their man-bits on all of this. Then she says I'm apparently "Closed(sic)-minded" about all of this. No... I don't think so.

I suppose the subtleties of my later responses kinda got lost in the mix. While I started by arguing that the anxiety of a wife of a band-member might be a legitimate problem, after some replies from the OP and such, I came to the conclusion they likely didn't take her because someone came in and auditioned after her and gave them more of what they were really looking for, musically.

Just because you audition, doesn't mean you get the gig, and yes, I've gotten gigs where the previous bass player got shown the door after less than an entire song play-through. I heard it happen outside the rehearsal-room door, in my case.

Does this response make it more obvious?

EDITED to soften tone, a little.

I don't think you correctly read her first post because there are three problems here. First, the OP isn't "a self-proclaimed attractive woman"; she never proclaimed that, we're simply going from her picture. And that isn't thinking with our "man-bits", it's just recognizing an objective fact. Hell, my man-bits seldom rouse up and deliver an opinion these days, and never from a 1" square photograph. That's purely from my brain; I still recognize attractive women even though I'm no longer allowed to chase them. Second, the response she received specifically said she isn't getting the job because she's female, in spite of her playing which was of a level good enough (again, from the response) for the gig. Now, it's possible that if she were a woman who looked like, well, me, then she might have been offered the job, but we don't know even that, and Rutrho never even suggested it. It's equally possible that "JD" isn't comfortable with spending late nights in the company of any woman. In today's atmosphere of false allegations and guilty until proven innocent, and given a "high-anxiety" wife, I can quite understand that. Third, it's pretty evident from the response that the band has not yet selected a bassist. That's pretty good evidence that they are still looking and still auditioning, and rather than just saying "we're going a different way" when it is going to be apparent they haven't yet found a bassist, they elected to give her a very nice response stressing that there was not any lack of skill or appearance issue on her part that cost her the gig. It ain't you, it's JD's crazy wife. They never addressed her level of attractiveness, and mentioned her sex only as it applies to JD's wife's issues. Clearly the band response was intended to make her feel better about not getting the gig. They just don't quite understand that it's also a frustrating response because, for a bassist or drummer or maybe anything less than a lead singer, being female still closes more doors than it opens. And having doors slammed in your face for something you can't practically change or fix with more practice just plain sucks. We as human beans have an ingrained need for the universe to be fair, and it's irksome when it shows us that it isn't.

This is the core issue of Rutrho's thread, that frustration that being female is closing doors that she's trying to wedge open. And I'm sure it's doubly frustrating because, as a happily married queer woman, she is zero threat to this woman's marriage. (Okay, not zero; she's a pretty lady and people fall in love with unobtainable persons all the time, but there's zero potential they'll just one day find themselves in bed together after a long hot gig.) Sure, it's possible that this woman has "anxiety" strong enough to require professional help. It's also possible that she's irrationally jealous. It's also possible that she's quite rationally jealous based on previous experience. All of that is speculation, and none of that is the point of the thread. The point of the thread is "Dang, these doors keep getting slammed in my face because of something that I can't change and isn't even being correctly interpreted." She wants to express that frustration and hopefully get some advice for ways to keep those doors open.

TL/DR: You and Rutrho are going to war without an actual casus belli. Internet Rule #1 has to be: Don't take anything personally.

 

[frankie5string]

I don't think you correctly read her first post because there are three problems here. First, the OP isn't "a self-proclaimed attractive woman"; she never proclaimed that, we're simply going from her picture. And that isn't thinking with our "man-bits", it's just recognizing an objective fact.
TL/DR: You and Rutrho are going to war without an actual casus belli. Internet Rule #1 has to be: Don't take anything personally.

Absolutely, 100% agree. Auditions are still brutal in this day and age, and band members will often not be the best at squirrelling out of a commitment to bring someone into a band. The OP was 100% right not to pursue it further. Some of the responses here were way off the map, though.

No wars starting here, only love. Everyone should be able to find the musicians they can work with. It takes time.

 

[Mike Whitfield]

Anxiety is real, of course. Anxiety related to insecurity in a relationship can be related to a number of things, maybe past trauma of betrayal or maybe just jealousy. But yes, if this was a known thing why have her in to audition at all?

That's why I suspect it's more because she's an attractive woman than just because she's a woman. But it's also possible that JD just didn't consider the possibility of getting a female applicant with the metal chops to be selected, or was embarrassed to bring up this personal limitation, or simply didn't think of raising it until Rutrho comes along and he literally says "rutrho!". All just speculation. Our only hard facts are that she didn't get the job because she's a woman and that she has the chops to at least be in the running.

 

[Mike Whitfield]

Absolutely, 100% agree. Auditions are still brutal in this day and age, and band members will often not be the best at squirrelling out of a commitment to bring someone into a band. The OP was 100% right not to pursue it further. Some of the responses here were way off the map, though.

No wars starting here, only love. Everyone should be able to find the musicians they can work with. It takes time.

I agree completely that some of the responses here are overboard, but in a way this forum serves as a safe, substitute friend network. Not everyone has a supportive spouse or good friends, and I think sometimes some of us go overboard to have another member's back because that's what friends do. Add that on top of today's political correctness which insists that men and women are exactly the same, interchangeable pieces, and it's easy to overreact.

 

[Flamingo21]

From the way I know rutrho, to proclaim herself attractive must be the furthest possible thing from her mind.

 

[Shalto]

The audition process works both ways, are you suited to them and are they suited to you. You found out pretty quick with this one!

Suspect there is something much better out there for you.

 

[Spectrum]

I reported this post as well as one of your others. Being abusive is not contributing anything to this thread.

Thanks for keeping us up to date on what you report.

 

[richntiff]

Thanks for keeping us up to date on what you report.

Happy to help.

 

[Nevada Pete]

Looks shouldn’t be a factor.

Looks are a factor.

Among accountants and PhD scientists an Presidential candidates. It’s not right, but it is.

I might be misinterpreting here, but may I just kindly point out that this is after all the entertainment business we work in. Not an accountancy, a laboratory, or the campaign trail. Why is it not right for physical attractiveness to be an important factor? I don't think its a matter of right or wrong. In the music business, anyway, it just is. It's a law of nature. You want to argue with Mother Nature? Okay. Fine. She doesn't care what we think.

[Note: Mama Cass had an enviable career and she wasn't as a rule necessarily considered physically attractive. She sure could sing, though! So nothing is embedded in stone.]

 

[Flamingo21]

I might be misinterpreting here, but may I just kindly point out that this is after all the entertainment business we work in. (...) Why is it not right for physical attractiveness to be an important factor?

You may indeed be misinterpreting. OP was rejected because she's a woman (this we know) and possibly because she was found to look good (this we don't know for sure).

So this is kind of the reverse situation from the one you refer to.

 

[pcake]

another vote for sounds like you dodged a bullet.

Seriously tho, my violin player is a hot little lady. We have zero issues tho, because her husband plays mandolin, so... I always enjoy playing music with women, and have never once had any kind of issue like this. Professionalism is all it takes. Besides, I love my wife, so physically all other women mean nothing to me.

"hot little lady"? ewww
(disclaimer: i've never used that smiley before, but it seemed to describe how i felt)

 

[TexasEdition]

Can't blame them. They are being sensitive to the young lady's feelings.

 

[Yellow Bang66]

So, I've been looking for a new band for a while now and its been a pretty frustrating fruitless endeavor for the most part as I'm looking for doing originals and in metal or even down to more chill stuff like hard rock or indie stuff. To say it tends to be male dominated is an understatement, Needless to say, lots of boys club type vibes from groups in this genre, this one takes the cake though from my recent experiences.

FTR this is a pretty huge bullet dodged in my book, if some dude is being this weird, well, about his gf or whatever then I'm pretty glad to not have to deal with that mess.
Meanwhile I'm going back to the search for non jerk band mates, wheeee. Luckily my wife has ZERO issues with me playing with random guys. LOLOL


View attachment 3621505

So, I've been looking for a new band for a while now and its been a pretty frustrating fruitless endeavor for the most part as I'm looking for doing originals and in metal or even down to more chill stuff like hard rock or indie stuff. To say it tends to be male dominated is an understatement, Needless to say, lots of boys club type vibes from groups in this genre, this one takes the cake though from my recent experiences.

FTR this is a pretty huge bullet dodged in my book, if some dude is being this weird, well, about his gf or whatever then I'm pretty glad to not have to deal with that mess.
Meanwhile I'm going back to the search for non jerk band mates, wheeee. Luckily my wife has ZERO issues with me playing with random guys. LOLOL


View attachment 3621505

Yes, it Sucks!! You dodged a huge bazooka shell of BS! I don't know what it's like to have to deal with sexist behavior in a band situation. But not all of us are juvenile idiots.its sort of a compliment though... you're attractive, perhaps, he was just trying to avoid having to deal with his "issues" on a regular basis? I think I 'd be more offended if they didn't want you because of your gender ( "we don't want no female bassist") opposed to "uh oh! my crazy wife isn't gonna like this!" $h*t storm avoided!! luckily, he was up front about it, instead of an ugly confrontation later on. move on. GL

 

[Jimmy4string]

I think @two fingers had it
Good luck!

 

[lizardking837]

So, I've been looking for a new band for a while now and its been a pretty frustrating fruitless endeavor for the most part as I'm looking for doing originals and in metal or even down to more chill stuff like hard rock or indie stuff. To say it tends to be male dominated is an understatement, Needless to say, lots of boys club type vibes from groups in this genre, this one takes the cake though from my recent experiences.

FTR this is a pretty huge bullet dodged in my book, if some dude is being this weird, well, about his gf or whatever then I'm pretty glad to not have to deal with that mess.
Meanwhile I'm going back to the search for non jerk band mates, wheeee. Luckily my wife has ZERO issues with me playing with random guys. LOLOL


View attachment 3621505

Damn, really makes me miss how I formed my first band. I walked into the barn that we used for practice and said, "I'm your bass player."

Also, the new hair color looks awesome.

 

[Jimmy4string]

In other news-my Guitarist seems set on a female bass player for our band(i am Lead singer).
He says so she can sing harmony or something. Surely finding a female bass player is rare, one that wants to play in a 80's rock band with a bunch of old guys is close to seeing a unicorn with a rainbow cape.
I tend to judge peeps on playing ability and harmonies regardless of gender.
OH unless they have a cool Fender bass (but that's another thread).

 

[rutrho]

In other news-my Guitarist seems set on a female bass player for our band(i am Lead singer).
He says so she can sing harmony or something. Surely finding a female bass player is rare, one that wants to play in a 80's rock band with a bunch of old guys is close to seeing a unicorn with a rainbow cape.
I tend to judge peeps on playing ability and harmonies regardless of gender.
OH unless they have a cool Fender bass (but that's another thread).

buwahaha, i can see that going over real well. lolol

 

[Mike Whitfield]

I might be misinterpreting here, but may I just kindly point out that this is after all the entertainment business we work in. Not an accountancy, a laboratory, or the campaign trail. Why is it not right for physical attractiveness to be an important factor? I don't think its a matter of right or wrong. In the music business, anyway, it just is. It's a law of nature. You want to argue with Mother Nature? Okay. Fine. She doesn't care what we think.

[Note: Mama Cass had an enviable career and she wasn't as a rule necessarily considered physically attractive. She sure could sing, though! So nothing is embedded in stone.]

I agree, but it gives some weird and disappointing results. I'm pretty sure that appearance is why Joanna Connor never made it big, which is sad as she's an incredible guitarist with a great, smokey voice who everyone needs to experience. I like pretty women as much as the next guy but let's face it, there are way more pretty women than blues artists at her level.