AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[MarkA]

Hi, all. I currently run a couple Baer ML-112s (s1) and would like to potentially augment them with an AK cab that is more suitable for slap on my contemporary jazz gigs. I miss the airy tweeter of my old Epifani UL-112 cab but it gave up the ghost when pushed. What AK cab would you recommend me? Thanks.

@Snaxter has played his Hathor 1203 with a Baer ML-112 series 1. The post I quote below is actually the one to which he referred me in the post I quoted above (I think that makes sense...):

Bass cabinet news:

For my current 'playing only alone at home' mode, the Hathor 1203 with its port open is my go-to speaker cabinet. And as I continue to toy with the idea of rejoining the human race and playing music with other people again after many years, I think of the Hathor as the cabinet I would grab first for a jam session.

On Monday I received a Baer ML-112 Series 1, and it was good. On Tuesday it was time for round two of "What plays nice with the Hathor I put on it?" The amp was Kern preamp/send to sfx micro-Thumpinator/return > Glockenklang Blue Rock flat and clean. Briefly, then,

• With the Hathor 1203's port open, the two cabs subtly fought each other in the low end. More than sounded, it felt like slight vertigo during a bass head cold.

• Then I plugged the Hathor's port and the two cabs sounded excellent together, as if they were meant to be so. I mean strong, practically seamless, very natural, spatial, and simply quite euphonic.

• That settled, any of the three H1203 high and mid switches settings I prefer sounded good in the stack (all except both up, that is).

• Set to my liking, the H1203/M-112 stack sounded far better than my recollection of how the H1203/F112 stack sounded.

Anti-cabinet mix 'n' match-ers keep moving; nothing to hear or see here. But you're missing out on a good combo...

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I haven't played a Baer ML112, but I've had two cabs that use what I think is the same 6" mid and can tell you that the 3" in the Hathor goes higher than that... @Snaxter would be able to advise you better (since he currently has both the Baer and the Hathor), as would @nostatic (who has played both cabs as well).

I've never owned a UL-112, but if the tweeter in it is like that in the PS-112 I had, the 3" mid in the Hathor is vastly preferable, especially with Duke's crossover work. It goes surprisingly high -- enough to add some definite snap to slap playing -- but doesn't get that last bit of air and/or glass that a good tweeter can. Again, though, it sounds much better to me than the tweeter in the PS-112 did -- and it doesn't have that hole in the mids. I have some three-way MAS cabs that use a nice Ciare tweeter -- I engage that much of the time and I like what it adds -- but I'd rather have the 3" mid than the tweeter in most other cabs I've heard.

There are the Thunderchild cabs, which should have a more "tweeter like" top end, but I don't have experience with them and don't know how they'd combine with your Baer.

Good luck!

 

[Snaxster]

Hi, all. I currently run a couple Baer ML-112s (s1) and would like to potentially augment them with an AK cab that is more suitable for slap on my contemporary jazz gigs. I miss the airy tweeter of my old Epifani UL-112 cab but it gave up the ghost when pushed. What AK cab would you recommend me? Thanks.

Hello DLM. Though I have yet to play a Thunderchild cabinet, what nostatic said is the recommendation I would expect, given your "airy tweeter" reference:

probably Thunderchild 1-12. The horn gets closer to tweeter"air" than the 3" on the Hathor.

I haven't played a Baer ML112, but I've had two cabs that use what I think is the same 6" mid and can tell you that the 3" in the Hathor goes higher than that... @Snaxter would be able to advise you better (since he currently has both the Baer and the Hathor), as would @nostatic (who has played both cabs as well).

Mark's guess is right: in my experience, the Hathor 1203's 3" driver goes higher than the Baer ML-112 Series 1's 6" driver.

I have some three-way MAS cabs that use a nice Ciare tweeter -- I engage that much of the time and I like what it adds -- but I'd rather have the 3" mid than the tweeter in most other cabs I've heard.

There are the Thunderchild cabs, which should have a more "tweeter like" top end, but I don't have experience with them and don't know how they'd combine with your Baer.

Unlike Mark, my only MAS cabinet (indeed the only one I ever played so far) is a MAS-112 Eminence with a switchable B&C tweeter (which as used there is a sweet-sounding detail maker; more sheen and zing than noticeable treble). But like Mark, if in any bass cabinet I had to choose between a tweeter and a 3" midrange driver, I would choose the 3".

Generalizing, I would say that the 3" drivers as used in my AudioKinesis and MAS cabinets present tactile texture and detail, less than they do air (as tweeters more typically do). However, each of those designers capitalizes on their 3" drivers' range by designing their cabinets for maximum dispersion and minimum "boxiness".

Also, though without hard proof, I am inclined to think that 3" drivers offer less challenge and more opportunity for the bass cabinet designer than tweeters do, in the area of crossover between the woofer and the next smallest driver.

 

[DLM]

Nostatic, MarkA, Snaxster--Thanks for all your input which I found very helpful.

There seems to be one Hathor demo of a discontinued cab that's a few years old on YouTube (player Chris?). Is that still fairly representative of the high end of the current Hathor series?

Just to clarify, I would not be pairing any AK cab with the Baer.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I currently run a couple Baer ML-112s (s1) and would like to potentially augment them with an AK cab that is more suitable for slap on my contemporary jazz gigs. I miss the airy tweeter of my old Epifani UL-112 cab but it gave up the ghost when pushed. What AK cab would you recommend me? Thanks.

probably Thunderchild 1-12. The horn gets closer to tweeter"air" than the 3" on the Hathor.

Yup!

There seems to be one Hathor demo of a discontinued cab that's a few years old on YouTube (player Chris?). Is that still fairly representative of the high end of the current Hathor series?

Just to clarify, I would not be pairing any AK cab with the Baer.

The Hathor 1544 that Chris Cole recorded is not representative of my current Hathor line. I designed it before the "zig where the guitars zag" concept came along, so it's pretty much just a smooth cab.

I'm assuming that a smooth bass cab would work well for a contemporary jazz gig, and the "airy" top end requirement points us towards the Thunderchild rather than Hathor line. I'd even go so far as to suggest the "acoustic friendly" rear-firing tweeter option, which adds to the airiness and makes it easier for your fellow musicians to hear what you are doing, which can be especially beneficial for jazz.

 

[TomB]

Yup!



The Hathor 1544 that Chris Cole recorded is not representative of my current Hathor line. I designed it before the "zig where the guitars zag" concept came along, so it's pretty much just a smooth cab.

I'm assuming that a smooth bass cab would work well for a contemporary jazz gig, and the "airy" top end requirement points us towards the Thunderchild rather than Hathor line. I'd even go so far as to suggest the "acoustic friendly" rear-firing tweeter option, which adds to the airiness and makes it easier for your fellow musicians to hear what you are doing, which can be especially beneficial for jazz.

Based on experience I'd agree. The TC horn captures all but the spankiest slap tones. The AF feature is great if you like to give your drummer some . At least for that application, I think Duke got it right the first time!

 

[maisbass]

The Thunderchild 112 V1 is da bomb! Best cab I ever owned period! The only one that comes close for me was the old road ready (Circa early 90's) mesa boogie 4x10.... But weighed about 50lbs more than the TC112!!

I honestly love my TC112 more than my Hathor 1203. The Hathor is a beast, but I love the full tonal spectrum and clarity of the TC112. Marry the TC112 with a Fodera, and every subtle nuance jumps out at ya. Sweet!

 

[TomB]

The Thunderchild 112 V1 is da bomb! Best cab I ever owned period! The only one that comes close for me was the old road ready (Circa early 90's) mesa boogie 4x10.... But weighed about 50lbs more than the TC112!!

I honestly love my TC112 more than my Hathor 1203. The Hathor is a beast, but I love the full tonal spectrum and clarity of the TC112. Marry the TC112 with a Fodera, and every subtle nuance jumps out at ya. Sweet!

The TC 115 ain't bad either . As hoped, it fills the bigger rooms in glorious fashion. I don't know if it's "flatter" than the 112 but it has the most even response across the spectrum of any cab I've owned, including slap tones. I'm still amazed that my "big room" cab weighs only 38 lbs!

 

[nutdog]

Hi, all. I currently run a couple Baer ML-112s (s1) and would like to potentially augment them with an AK cab that is more suitable for slap on my contemporary jazz gigs. I miss the airy tweeter of my old Epifani UL-112 cab but it gave up the ghost when pushed. What AK cab would you recommend me? Thanks.

I posted a vid a while back with some slap thru a 1203, if it'll help. It's recorded with a little zoom thing that gets the bass tone pretty decent but doesn't really give an idea of how obnoxiously loud we are. And of course I @#!* up the first note of the first song on the first set. I blame it on the new bass.

 

[engedi1]

That's quite the outfit your singer has on there!

 

[engedi1]

Oh, and the bass sounds killer too.

 

[tallboybass]

I posted a vid a while back with some slap thru a 1203, if it'll help. It's recorded with a little zoom thing that gets the bass tone pretty decent but doesn't really give an idea of how obnoxiously loud we are. And of course I @#!* up the first note of the first song on the first set. I blame it on the new bass.

Love the vibe of the group and the bass tone...what amp are you using? Switch positions and port blocking?

 

[nutdog]

Love the vibe of the group and the bass tone...what amp are you using? Switch positions and port blocking?

Thanks. Peavey minimega, 2x1203's, both switches up, ports open. The hathor doesn't go all the way into tweeter land but 12k is still pretty high for bass.

 

[MarkA]

I posted a vid a while back with some slap thru a 1203, if it'll help. It's recorded with a little zoom thing that gets the bass tone pretty decent but doesn't really give an idea of how obnoxiously loud we are. And of course I @#!* up the first note of the first song on the first set. I blame it on the new bass.

What a fun tune! Nice trio work, too.

 

[kittywithabanjo]

Anyone use a B-amp? I am thinking about amp options..interested in the Demeter as well.

 

[Marial]

Anyone use a B-amp? I am thinking about amp options..interested in the Demeter as well.

I had a Demeter (the 800D), loved it, but I experienced frequent thermal shut-down issues. I could have sent it back to James but I sold it instead.

 

[engedi1]

Anyone use a B-amp? I am thinking about amp options..interested in the Demeter as well.

I didn't care for the B amp, which I A/b'ed against the quilter with my Pbass. Seemed to lack balls, ie, girth and depth. If I weren't using the quilter, I would probably use the Mesa, or the Darkglass head is super tempting. I WAS going to get the darkglass head, but since I already have the darkglass pedal I figured that would be overkill. But the eq on the darkglass stuff is brilliant and no one ever accused darkglass stuff of being polite or lacking in the balls department. If I ever sell the quilter, it probably will be for the darkglass amp. I have found the pedal is amazing in the studio, gives me huge control over the eq going into the board and a real pro sound, I can't imagine the amp would disappoint.

 

[bassbooty]

I had a Demeter (the 800D), loved it, but I experienced frequent thermal shut-down issues. I could have sent it back to James but I sold it instead.

I believe Demeter resolved the VTBP-M-800D thermal shut down issues a long time ago. I have owned 3 different models of Demeter amp heads with no shut down issues.

 

[Marial]

I believe Demeter resolved the VTBP-M-800D thermal shut down issues a long time ago. I have owned 3 different models of Demeter amp heads with no shut down issues.

Yep, I was an early adopter, I'm sure James has figured it all out by now.

 

[Marial]

I didn't care for the B amp, which I A/b'ed against the quilter with my Pbass. Seemed to lack balls, ie, girth and depth. If I weren't using the quilter, I would probably use the Mesa, or the Darkglass head is super tempting. I WAS going to get the darkglass head, but since I already have the darkglass pedal I figured that would be overkill. But the eq on the darkglass stuff is brilliant and no one ever accused darkglass stuff of being polite or lacking in the balls department. If I ever sell the quilter, it probably will be for the darkglass amp. I have found the pedal is amazing in the studio, gives me huge control over the eq going into the board and a real pro sound, I can't imagine the amp would disappoint.

More encouragement regarding the BB800. I really need to test one out locally.

 

[kittywithabanjo]

The quilter is interesting for sure. I tried the D800+ and wasn't totally wowed I am looking for something to replace a Markbass LMK. Mostly for classic rock stuff. I have a pope pre qsc as well so something different than that