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Darkglass Vintage Deluxe!

#81
zwkoch said:
According the Prymaxe, the Deluxe was to be released today. Any word on when the real launch date is? I didn't order from them, but the BassEFX site doesn't list a date. Typically, the west coast shops get Darkglass pedals earlier given the proximity to Spencer's shop.
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I shipped the first units to dealers today. No longer does NAMM stand for "not available, maybe March".
 
#85
sunbeast said:
Not for boutique pedals! Discounts always come at some cost, even if you personally never feel it.
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Well you didn't actually say boutique, even though I knew it was implied... :D

I don't want to get into a debate about the economics or the ethics of buying from these places. My best understanding is that it's the shop that's taking the profit hit in order to move more units, and I can definitely live with that. I want to support the great builders out there, but I also need to make sure I get the best deal available, or I wouldn't be buying in the first place. And in doing so, it's not like I'm supporting third world sweatshops...
 
#86
Adamixoye said:
Well you didn't actually say boutique, even though I knew it was implied... :D

I don't want to get into a debate about the economics or the ethics of buying from these places. My best understanding is that it's the shop that's taking the profit hit in order to move more units, and I can definitely live with that. I want to support the great builders out there, but I also need to make sure I get the best deal available, or I wouldn't be buying in the first place. And in doing so, it's not like I'm supporting third world sweatshops...
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Couldn't agree more. Besides wanting to support the good guys in the business, the money they make also acts as the company's R&D budget. If I want new toys, they need to make money.
 
#87
Adamixoye said:
Well you didn't actually say boutique, even though I knew it was implied... :D



I don't want to get into a debate about the economics or the ethics of buying from these places. My best understanding is that it's the shop that's taking the profit hit in order to move more units, and I can definitely live with that. I want to support the great builders out there, but I also need to make sure I get the best deal available, or I wouldn't be buying in the first place. And in doing so, it's not like I'm supporting third world sweatshops...
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I'm also not interested in getting in deep debating economics (and Talkbass doesn't support those kind of conversations). I just think it is important to think of more than just the bottom line when spending money in this day and age. I am just old enough to have grown up without places like Guitar Center, and so it really hit me when that became the future of music retail. Now with the internet, the MI stores I grew up with have been nearly priced out of existence (with the cost of actually running a walk-in store virtually negated by the virtual marketplace). Now there is a similar thing happening with internet stores, where those with the capital to buy and sell in huge numbers can always price out my "little" friends in the industry. I just had this same conversation with the dudes at the Mesa Boogie store in Hollywood, where people frequently go in there to try the amps then buy them from Sweetwater where they can wrangle similar deals behind the scenes despite the manufacturer's fixed pricing. The Mesa Boogie store actually does much of their business selling boutique instruments!

Of course in the end it is your choice! I guess I am just at the point where I figure if I can justify spending this much money on a pedal, I can also justify spending just a bit more to help out a smaller fish. If there were a local brick and mortar shop that stocked Darkglass I would have bought it there without a second thought.
 
#89
sunbeast said:
I'm also not interested in getting in deep debating economics (and Talkbass doesn't support those kind of conversations). I just think it is important to think of more than just the bottom line when spending money in this day and age. I am just old enough to have grown up without places like Guitar Center, and so it really hit me when that became the future of music retail. Now with the internet, the MI stores I grew up with have been nearly priced out of existence (with the cost of actually running a walk-in store virtually negated by the virtual marketplace). Now there is a similar thing happening with internet stores, where those with the capital to buy and sell in huge numbers can always price out my "little" friends in the industry. I just had this same conversation with the dudes at the Mesa Boogie store in Hollywood, where people frequently go in there to try the amps then buy them from Sweetwater where they can wrangle similar deals behind the scenes despite the manufacturer's fixed pricing. The Mesa Boogie store actually does much of their business selling boutique instruments!

Of course in the end it is your choice! I guess I am just at the point where I figure if I can justify spending this much money on a pedal, I can also justify spending just a bit more to help out a smaller fish. If there were a local brick and mortar shop that stocked Darkglass I would have bought it there without a second thought.
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Part of your argument is the exact reason I ordered mine from Prymaxe. You talk about the people that go try their stuff out at Mesa only to go buy it cheaper elsewhere...well, one of the driving factors for me wanting a Vintage was Prymaxe's demo. They put together some of the best recorded and useful demos out there - not just some guy recording a crappy clip mostly showing what the pedal sounds like only with the drive cranked all the way up, but a variety of styles with a variety of settings from clean to nasty.

This is actually my first purchase from Prymaxe, and the only reason I had actually heard of them is because they are the very first link on Darkglass' dealer page. And it's not like they're alphabetical or anything...if the builder was getting hurt by people purchasing from them, they wouldn't distribute to them...and they certainly wouldn't list them as the first place to look for their products.

I guess I just don't buy the "the bigger they are the more evil" arguments. It's like guys that stop listening to some of their favorite bands because they got popular and aren't cool and indie anymore. Sometimes stores/bands become more popular and "bigger" because they actually do a really good job - and I don't see a reason to avoid them because of it. I don't think it should be a negative that a website actually looks professional and is well designed instead of looking like a guy put it together himself on an old computer in his garage.

I'm not trying to knock people's legitimate reasons for shying away from places like Guitar Center (or Prymaxe or whoever)...and I'm certainly not trying to dissuade people from supporting small businesses. I'm just sharing my specific reasons for purchasing from them....and regardless of discount, I would've ordered from them because they provided me a service. I don't have a place local to try out pedals like the Vintage Deluxe, but Prymaxe gave me the closest thing to that by taking the time to provide a very helpful tool for making sure I found exactly what I was looking for.
 
#91
Eadger said:
Part of your argument is the exact reason I ordered mine from Prymaxe. You talk about the people that go try their stuff out at Mesa only to go buy it cheaper elsewhere...well, one of the driving factors for me wanting a Vintage was Prymaxe's demo. They put together some of the best recorded and useful demos out there - not just some guy recording a crappy clip mostly showing what the pedal sounds like only with the drive cranked all the way up, but a variety of styles with a variety of settings from clean to nasty.

This is actually my first purchase from Prymaxe, and the only reason I had actually heard of them is because they are the very first link on Darkglass' dealer page. And it's not like they're alphabetical or anything...if the builder was getting hurt by people purchasing from them, they wouldn't distribute to them...and they certainly wouldn't list them as the first place to look for their products.

I guess I just don't buy the "the bigger they are the more evil" arguments. It's like guys that stop listening to some of their favorite bands because they got popular and aren't cool and indie anymore. Sometimes stores/bands become more popular and "bigger" because they actually do a really good job - and I don't see a reason to avoid them because of it. I don't think it should be a negative that a website actually looks professional and is well designed instead of looking like a guy put it together himself on an old computer in his garage.

I'm not trying to knock people's legitimate reasons for shying away from places like Guitar Center (or Prymaxe or whoever)...and I'm certainly not trying to dissuade people from supporting small businesses. I'm just sharing my specific reasons for purchasing from them....and regardless of discount, I would've ordered from them because they provided me a service. I don't have a place local to try out pedals like the Vintage Deluxe, but Prymaxe gave me the closest thing to that by taking the time to provide a very helpful tool for making sure I found exactly what I was looking for.
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I wouldn't say "good vs. evil" has anything to do with my decision making money-wise- just that I make a point of supporting people that do things that align with my values and goals in life. I still like to be able to have a personal relationship or camaraderie with a business if at all possible, so that usually means trying to buy local if possible, and generally from smaller sellers who are more excited about and in-touch with their business.

When builders like Darkglass and Mesa Boogie make a "Minimum Advertised Price" arrangement with dealers it is meant to help foster a relationship with smaller sellers so that they aren't priced out of the market the way mega-stores like Guitar Center/Musicians Friend can do with many other products. Unfortunately bigger sellers can always find a way around that arrangement to grab a bigger slice of the market on an item- and offering discounts or incentives privately is something places like GC/MF/Sweetwater/Prymaxe/etcetera all will do. The result is that a disproportionate amount of the sales for items still end up going to these bigger stores, and often smaller stores can no longer afford to stock them consistently (exactly what MAP pricing is supposed to help prevent).

I am definitely not saying that there is anything wrong with buying from Prymaxe, I just don't think anyone should feel ripped off for not having bought from Prymaxe and hopefully can see the value in supporting some other dealers who want to offer Darkglass products at (or even above at a brick and mortar store) the MAP pricing.
 
#93
Kessian said:
Question: Is there a point in getting both the B7K and the vintage deluxe? What are the main differences between the two?
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I guess it depends on the situation and what tones your after. I have a B7K and use it as clean-preamp/DI and for what I would call modern OD sounds.

I will add the Vintage Deluxe for gigs that require more old school tones that the B7K does not do too well. I will run them occasionally as only pedal when recording or playing live and appreciate the option to have an EQ and DI on each. But who knows maybe I'll start using them together for total OD nirvana ;-)

Main differences apart from the different tone signatures (check for some demos on YouTube) - the B7K has a 4-Band EQ, the VMTD is 3-Band (no "hi-mid"). The B7K has additional switches for attack and grunt while the VMT has an ERA knob. I assume the DI section will be more or less the same on both pedals.
 
#97
sunbeast said:
I wouldn't say "good vs. evil" has anything to do with my decision making money-wise- just that I make a point of supporting people that do things that align with my values and goals in life. I still like to be able to have a personal relationship or camaraderie with a business if at all possible, so that usually means trying to buy local if possible, and generally from smaller sellers who are more excited about and in-touch with their business.

When builders like Darkglass and Mesa Boogie make a "Minimum Advertised Price" arrangement with dealers it is meant to help foster a relationship with smaller sellers so that they aren't priced out of the market the way mega-stores like Guitar Center/Musicians Friend can do with many other products. Unfortunately bigger sellers can always find a way around that arrangement to grab a bigger slice of the market on an item- and offering discounts or incentives privately is something places like GC/MF/Sweetwater/Prymaxe/etcetera all will do. The result is that a disproportionate amount of the sales for items still end up going to these bigger stores, and often smaller stores can no longer afford to stock them consistently (exactly what MAP pricing is supposed to help prevent).

I am definitely not saying that there is anything wrong with buying from Prymaxe, I just don't think anyone should feel ripped off for not having bought from Prymaxe and hopefully can see the value in supporting some other dealers who want to offer Darkglass products at (or even above at a brick and mortar store) the MAP pricing.
Click to expand...

Yep, totally agree. Just wanted to balance the negative connotation of "Musician's Friend of FX pedals" by showing there are other positive reasons for purchasing from them that aren't financially motivated. And supporting the guys that are putting out good demos that help us better understand the products - that can be a noble cause too (although saying it aligns with my "goals in life" might be a bit of a stretch).
 
#99
Eadger said:
Yep, totally agree. Just wanted to balance the negative connotation of "Musician's Friend of FX pedals" by showing there are other positive reasons for purchasing from them that aren't financially motivated. And supporting the guys that are putting out good demos that help us better understand the products - that can be a noble cause too (although saying it aligns with my "goals in life" might be a bit of a stretch).
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Fair enough- Musician's Friend is a pretty harsh comparison and probably not really apt for Prymaxe apart from a few business practices that they do both share. As far as goals in life- one of mine is to help foster supportive communities for artists, and part of that is keeping our limited money in the right places. Again- not to say Prymaxe isn't the right one, but that there are other options worthy of consideration outside "what's the cheapest"!
 

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