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Dean Club!!!
- Thread starter tom once dead
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Hi, I'm new to talkbase, hailing from Montreal, and I own a Dean; not for collecting purposes; I actually learned to play bass on it and I torture it 3 hours a day on average. I believe it is some kind of Edge Pro. Bought it about 3 years ago at a pawn shop, then had it professionally fret-leveled and adjusted. Let me see if I can find a picture in my PC... I took pictures and moved them from phone to PC for the sake of doing a 3D model of it, but it was a while ago...
There'd be no point in having active pickups with active preamp. Active pickups are basically a pickup with a built-in preamp. The purpose of going active vs passive is to strengthen the signal so as to increase the signal-to-noise ratio, but "one strengthening" should be enough. If it wasn't enough, they'd redesign the circuit and give it more gain. That's all that active means. Instead of sending a 10 mV signal, against which a 0.1 mV level of noise and hum pickup by the wires, knobs and cable is not at all insignificant, you pre-ampplify the signal to, say, 500 mV level. Against 500 mV, the same 0.1 mV level of noise and hum pickup is hardly significant anymore. But if you try to amplify twice you could go up to 10 volts or 100 volts of calculated signal level, which the components cannot represent out of a 9V supply, and so what you might get is clipped, distorted signal, for no significant gain in the signal-to-noise sense. Also, don't forget that the electronics used to convert passive to active (to strengthen the signal) have their own problems, like noise and distortion, and the more stages you put in the audio chain the more of these unwanted features you accumulate.
There'd be no point in having active pickups with active preamp. Active pickups are basically a pickup with a built-in preamp. The purpose of going active vs passive is to strengthen the signal so as to increase the signal-to-noise ratio, but "one strengthening" should be enough. If it wasn't enough, they'd redesign the circuit and give it more gain. That's all that active means. Instead of sending a 10 mV signal, against which a 0.1 mV level of noise and hum pickup by the wires, knobs and cable is not at all insignificant, you pre-ampplify the signal to, say, 500 mV level. Against 500 mV, the same 0.1 mV level of noise and hum pickup is hardly significant anymore. But if you try to amplify twice you could go up to 10 volts or 100 volts of calculated signal level, which the components cannot represent out of a 9V supply, and so what you might get is clipped, distorted signal, for no significant gain in the signal-to-noise sense. Also, don't forget that the electronics used to convert passive to active (to strengthen the signal) have their own problems, like noise and distortion, and the more stages you put in the audio chain the more of these unwanted features you accumulate.
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Thanks!
This is how EMG explained this to me as I was curious about their other pickups and asked them a few questions:
[email protected]
Hey B,
My name is Alison; I work in customer service here at EMG. Your guess it as good as ours! Haha, no- I kid. I think mostly it has to do with cost. Many of the guitar manufacturing companies build overseas and the factories that build the instruments already carry parts for passive pickups and also solder rather than specialize in the quick connect system.
It’s a really frustrating concept, but it goes a little like this- There are so many guitars that fit onto a pallet to ship. So even if it cost the manufacturer $4.00 dollars more per guitar to put active pickups and an active EQ, that is $4.00 more per guitar which means a pallet that costs another estimated $500.00 to ship and because they are shipping more than one pallet, the increase per pallet isn’t worth it to the manufacturer.
And now that the instrument market has a lot of used instruments, the cost reduction to the manufacturer is even more important these days. It’s really frustrating as the company beholden to the instrument manufacturers, but it does introduce people to our passive product (silver lining).
Now that you have that information, if you have any other questions about product- let me know! I’m happy to help.
All The Best,
Alison Turner
EMG Pickups Inc.
(707) 525-9941
From: B
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:55 AM
To: James Kearney
Subject: Re: New Kirk Hammett Bone Breaker Set!
Why do so many manufacturers use the EMGHZ pick ups with an active pre-amp when the EMGHZ pickups are actually passive? Don't get me wrong; they're great pups. I just don't understand why they it. I have 3 basses that have this arrangement and was just explained to me by a user on TalkBass that the EMGHZ pup is passive and that the EMG40 would be a good replacement on my Schecter.
I was like huh? whaddya mean it isn't active? It's an active preamp, why wouldn’t it have an active pup?
Please educate me so I can look into this further for my Schecter Stilleto Studio 5-er, my DEAN Rhapsody 8-string and my Dean Edge Pro 4 string.
Thanks.
Hey B,
I mean- I may be a little bias, but yes. Our passive pickups are great, but we have way more variety with active pickups and we simply enjoy doing active pickups more than passive. The kicker is that once a passive pickup goes through and active EQ system, it acts much more like an active pickup than a passive pickup.
The EMG40 just simply means that it is a 4” soapbar housing (length) that is usually designed for 4/5 string basses. The best thing to do is double check the length of the pickups you have to make sure you don’t need the 35 for 45 housing- 3.5” or 4.5” (length).
My next question would be, what do you want out of a pickup? Do you want a really traditional sound, do you want something that blows people away? I can make some suggestions for you.
All The Best,
Alison Turner
EMG Pickups Inc.
(707) 525-9941
Invalid Link Removed
Thanks! So anytime I see anctice pre-amp (9-volt battery) and it has EMGHZ it would be better to replace with active EMG pups. So, for a 4 string bass with the EMGHZ soap pups what would be the next level replacement that is active? Is there such a thing as the EMG40 for 4 string basses? I’m not familiar enough with your product line to name them correctly so please correct me. I’m not necessarily looking for top tier, just the next step up that is active and leaving the existing pre-amp alone. I used to work on electric toy trains with my dad so soldering is not a big deal. Thanks.
Here are the Rhapsody 4 string basses. Looks like yours is the Rhapsody Q4 in Transparent Black with replaced knobs. They also made the Rhapsody Q5 in the same colors listed as the Rhapsody Q4
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Also, all Edge Pro basses are neck thru. The Rhapsody has a bolt-on neck. I own the Rhapsody Bubinga 8-string octave version and love it.
Nice Rhapsody!
dan W
Welcome to Dean Club!!!
You have been officially issued Member Number 162
Here is a page from the 2003 Dean catalog. Yours appears to be a 2002 model, but your serial number is a little hard to read.
NicJimBass,
So, how is the love affair going with the Improv? Is the honeymoon over or are things still going strong?
Did you switch out the pups and preamp? If so, is it an improvement? Gigging with it?
Let us know. I'm still looking for a 4 string version in natural oil or similar to your 5 string. I've been eyeing that red one on REVERB, but it's just a little too red for me.
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NicJimBass
Flossin'? I thought your name was Munson!
Been using it, almost exclusively, since I got it. Something about it feels "right". I did swap the pups and pre- went with a 40CSX at the neck and 40DCX at the bridge, with the SNC Haz-clone pre. Can be aggressive or warm and mellow, depending on the settings. I love it!
Cool, but remember you're talking to a 'Noob'
I assume the 40's are EMG's and not sure what the SNC pre-amp is...
NicJimBass
Flossin'? I thought your name was Munson!
Yes, EMG pickups. The numbers designate size, and number of strings.... 35 is 3.5", 4 string, 40 is 4", 5 string, 45 is 4.5", 6 string. The CS and DC pickups are both dual coil, but the CS sounds a bit warmer than the DC.Cool, but remember you're talking to a 'Noob'
I assume the 40's are EMG's and not sure what the SNC pre-amp is...
The SNC preamp is a clone of the HAZ preamp that is most famously used in Spector basses. It gives them their unique aggressive tone, along with the EMG's. They're built by a fellow member here on Talkbass, and cost about half (or less) than an actual HAZ.
NicJimBass
Flossin'? I thought your name was Munson!
NicJimBass
Flossin'? I thought your name was Munson!
I don't think so... I thought this was normal for that model. Generic tuners meaning "non-Schaller", like on the Improv/ early European Select, and EMG-Hz's, which I believe are stock. Apparently, there's yet another discrepancy with what Dean put on promo stuff and what they put on the headstock. I highly doubt anyone at GC would know this is a ECS, unless it specifically said it on the bass. According to Dean's promo material, it's an Edge Custom 5.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Thanks B-Mac, I finally know what I got 3 years ago.
Dean Rhapsody Q4 active w/two EMGHZ.
Yeah, basically, at least from a theoretical POV, the best arrangement to go for is passive pickups with active preamp.
The opposite could work: Only the pickups being active; no additional preamp; but such arrangement would only allow the lowly, traditional "tone" control, which is simply a 6 dB/per octave low pass filter (which cuts but doesn't boost); made simply with a potentiometer and a capacitor; super-simple and cheap. That's the best you can get with passive tone control. To have bass, mid and treble knobs that boost or cut in those frequency ranges, you need operational amplifiers --i.e. active circuits, with a power source (battery); it cannot be done passively. So there's good reasons for having an active preamp; and if you have an active preamp there's not much reason for having active pickups; --in fact there's reasons why you would NOT want active pickups with an active preamp. Given all the above, I would assume the only motive for producing active pickups is for people with passive instruments and who want to keep the circuits as they are (e.g. "tone" control), for sentimental reasons, but want the better signal to noise ratio that active circuits have to offer. The simplest way to achieve that would be to swap the passive pickups for active ones and leave everything else as it is (passive).
Dean Rhapsody Q4 active w/two EMGHZ.
Yeah, basically, at least from a theoretical POV, the best arrangement to go for is passive pickups with active preamp.
The opposite could work: Only the pickups being active; no additional preamp; but such arrangement would only allow the lowly, traditional "tone" control, which is simply a 6 dB/per octave low pass filter (which cuts but doesn't boost); made simply with a potentiometer and a capacitor; super-simple and cheap. That's the best you can get with passive tone control. To have bass, mid and treble knobs that boost or cut in those frequency ranges, you need operational amplifiers --i.e. active circuits, with a power source (battery); it cannot be done passively. So there's good reasons for having an active preamp; and if you have an active preamp there's not much reason for having active pickups; --in fact there's reasons why you would NOT want active pickups with an active preamp. Given all the above, I would assume the only motive for producing active pickups is for people with passive instruments and who want to keep the circuits as they are (e.g. "tone" control), for sentimental reasons, but want the better signal to noise ratio that active circuits have to offer. The simplest way to achieve that would be to swap the passive pickups for active ones and leave everything else as it is (passive).
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NicJimBass
Flossin'? I thought your name was Munson!
Have to disagree with you on this. I have many basses, some all passive, some with a blend of active and passive electronics, some with fully active electronics. As of late, I've been using my fully active basses the most... I have 3 with active EMG pickups and various preamps. I don't know every detail, but, from my understanding, EMG pickups in particular are built in such a way, that, if they were passive, the output would be very, very low. The magnets aren't super strong, which is why they recommend putting the pickups really close to the strings. I believe the internal preamp is more for boosting that signal, as opposed to being a set EQ setting. I've got the EMG's paired with 3 very different preamps, and they all work and sound great. Tons of flexibility and many MANY tones to be had. On top of all that, there is no noise of any kind with any of them.
Also, the part where you mention keeping the circuit as they are wouldn't work if you're upgrading to active pickups. Traditional passive pickups use 250k or 500k pots, whereas active pickups (EMG specifically, possibly others) use 25k pots. You can keep the same layout and controls as a stock bass, but you shouldn't be using the actual stock electronics.
