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Gun Club!

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#81
mrokern said:
One thing I will say to our international brethren...I think sometimes we give the impression that many of us walk around like it's the "Old West". Not so. You're not all that much more likely to see a gun on the belt of a civilian here than you are in the UK (with the notable exception of police officers).

Even those of us who carry regularly don't necessarily carry openly, and most states don't allow the open carry of firearms even with a permit. If you met me, you would not know. Even my wife can't usually tell. I'm that discreet on purpose. I know they make some people uncomfortable, and I'm understanding about that.

Part of it may be the background of this country. Not to sugarcoat or romanticize our history, but our nation was founded by a bunch of people who were intent on preserving individual rights, for better or for worse. There are arguments to be made on both sides of that fence, but when the nation has existed since day one on that premise, there will be a mindset that one of the rights to be protected is the right to defend oneself.

Guns don't define my life (heck, basses define my life far more than firearms do). They are just another part of it. To me, they are tools. Fun tools to some of us (albeit ones that must be treated with respect), but tools. I'm betting that some of our more rural TB'ers will feel even more strongly about that...

-Mark
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Seen.....
 
#82
thefruitfarmer said:
why someone living in the city would want a collection of handguns just strikes me personally as a little strange from where I am sitting...:)
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Someone living in the city has just as much of a need, if not greater, than someone in the country. Home invasions, rape, assault, burglary, etc are much more common in those areas, and people feel more secure being able to adequately defend their families from these threats.
 
#83
FL Knifemaker said:
I often have visitors from Europe visit my shop. Everyone that comes wants to go to the range. I've NEVER had ANYONE go shooting, including my customers wives that didn't have a great time. Everyone that comes back for a return visit wants to do it again with more enthusiasm than the first time. You need to spend a day shooting to understand.
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I assume you own and/or work in a gun shop.

Anyone visiting such an establishment would be interested in firearms and therefore, given the opportunity to discharge a firearm on the firing range, would inevitably enjoy the experience. Those returning for a second go would obviously be the enthusiastic punters.

It is not necessary to spend a day shooting to understand why the people who present themselves at the counter of a gun shop are enthusiastic about guns....



FL Knifemaker said:
Carrying a gun for protection is another aspect of it. Not everyone that enjoys shooting carries for personal protection but many do. No one ever wants to have to USE a gun to defend themselves, I sure dont. But.....I'd rather have the gun and not need it than............:eek:
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That's possibly a cultural difference. Only gangstas have them here so one does n't need the firearm unless one is er.... doing gangsta business.

An old school bank robber would have a gun - but he would bury it, dig it up for the robbery and bury it again afterwards.
 
#86
Armueller2001 said:
Someone living in the city has just as much of a need, if not greater, than someone in the country. Home invasions, rape, assault, burglary, etc are much more common in those areas, and people feel more secure being able to adequately defend their families from these threats.
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in your opinion, that is.... not fact, just how YOU choose to see it!

take population into account.
 
#89
thefruitfarmer said:
If I was, hypothetically, a burgler and thought my victim had a weapon in the house I would want to carry a gun with a silencer and be prepared to use it too.
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If you were a burgler with your silenced gun, would you enter a home knowing the owner had a gun?? :eyebrow: Would you enter the home knowing there was a POSSIBILITY of the owner having a gun??? :eyebrow: Or.......would you move on to a home that you knew was unarmed???:eyebrow:
 
#90
FL Knifemaker said:
If you were a burgler with your silenced gun, would you enter a home knowing the owner had a gun?? :eyebrow: Would you enter the home knowing there was a POSSIBILITY of the owner having a gun??? :eyebrow: Or.......would you move on to a home that you knew was unarmed???:eyebrow:
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This argument will become circular soon I expect.....:)

A burgler would n't necessarily bother getting a gun if he was not expecting the house holder to have a gun but like you say an armed burgler would be more likely to target an unarmed household than an armed household, although how he would be able to ascertain this is not certain.

My take on this is the situation where you can shoot someone dead in your own home and then say " I thought he was a burgler going for his gun, so I defended myself" as a defence when in reality you just set up someone who you wanted dead. I am not sure whether this actually happens, but it could and quite easily I would have thought.
 
#91
thefruitfarmer said:
This argument will become circular soon I expect.....:)

A burgler would n't necessarily bother getting a gun if he was not expecting the house holder to have a gun but like you say an armed burgler would be more likely to target an unarmed household than an armed household, although how he would be able to ascertain this is not certain.
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OK, so......lets say that if 75% of the homes in your town were armed and the towns in the surrounding area were not.......What do you think the criminals would do?? The uncertainty becomes a beautiful thing :) I'll bet home invasions in Switzerland are almost non existant.
 
#92
FL Knifemaker said:
OK, so......lets say that if 75% of the homes in your town were armed and the towns in the surrounding area were not.......What do you think the criminals would do?? The uncertainty becomes a beautiful thing :) I'll bet home invasions in Switzerland are almost non existant.
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Assuming the criminals carefully research and calculate odds then yeah, they would probably act as you suggest.

The Swiss analogy is comparing Apples with Oranges IMO. The Swiss have a very different gun culture to the Americans and there is not the level of poverty and consequent desperation that exists in the trailer parks of the US, where the have nots are perhaps tempted to take from the haves. I feel that the level of gun ownership (IIRC the swiss have the highest gun ownership in the western world) is not the main determining factor here.
 
#93
thefruitfarmer said:
Assuming the criminals carefully research and calculate odds then yeah, they would probably act as you suggest.

The Swiss analogy is comparing Apples with Oranges IMO. The Swiss have a very different gun culture to the Americans and there is not the level of poverty and consequent desperation that exists in the trailer parks of the US, where the have nots are perhaps tempted to take from the haves. I feel that the level of gun ownership (IIRC the swiss have the highest gun ownership in the western world) is not the main determining factor here.
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I agree with the population of Switzerland. The have nots here in the US are the main reason I prefer to be armed. They feel the need to maintain their habbit and false sense of status at any cost. It's a subculture of desparate and crazy crackheads. Years ago I had several of them try to attack my Son and I just to get the beer I had in our boat. If I wasn't armed, I might not be posting right now. Believe me, I and 99% of the licenced gun owners in the US seek NO conflict!!!
 
#94
FL Knifemaker said:
I agree with the population of Switzerland. The have nots here in the US are the main reason I prefer to be armed. They feel the need to maintain their habbit and false sense of status at any cost. It's a subculture of desparate and crazy crackheads. Years ago I had several of them try to attack my Son and I just to get the beer I had in our boat. If I wasn't armed, I might not be posting right now. Believe me, I and 99% of the licenced gun owners in the US seek NO conflict!!!
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You seem like a reasonable guy and I respect your right to feel aggreived when a gang of crackheads attempts to take your beer.

What I am having trouble understanding here is that you could have just given the guys the beer and avoided the conflict that way, then telephoned the cops. I am guessing that you at the very least brandished your weapon to frighten them off. By doing that you were risking one of the gang, perhaps out of your field of vision, taking out a concealed weapon and taking a shot at you.....to protect his "colleague".

I respect you for standing up to them, all I am saying is there was possibly a less risky option that you could have taken.:)
 
#96
That said I did visit Alabama in 2004 and there were some very strange people about that would have been right in my face, given the chance.

Perhaps having a weapon would have made me feel more confident dealing with them. I managed to charm them with my Englishness though and tell them no, I have never met the Queen and I don't have tea every day at 4 o'clock.....:D
 
#97
scottice said:
Would a burglar have a class III permit for a silencer? ;)
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I doubt very many burglers and low level criminals own silencers. They would be much more expensive on the black market than a gun. Then you would need a gun with a barrel that would accept one. A pretty expensive package. Then again, a plastic soda bottle works if you don't mind the risk of shooting your hand :p

Speaking of guns with cans.........

I've always been rather partial to this combo :D

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