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Has Gretsch been lying to us for over a decade?

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#721
All recorded with single-coil pickups.

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LowEndLobster said:
I'm sorry, I totally misinterpreted the pic and didn't realize the joke the first time around. I retract my vent!
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You're okay, Lobster. It's cool. And yours is a legitimate grievance and you did well to point this out. Still, I cannot think of any leverage that could be applied that could make Gretsch change their ways.
 
#722
SleepyShark said:
Holy cow... I've spent some time away from TB this week after initially seeing this thread.

It makes me sad that some people are tying their self esteem to playing, "WELL ACKSHULLY!" on the internet. Nothing new, but this site has (historically) always been a cut above that type of neck-bearding; at least at that level.

Why are you going after fellow bassists and forum members when a company with revenue in the hundreds of millions (seemingly) isn't honestly representing what is being sold - intentional or not - unless the product was changed mid-production (which is a whole different can of worms). Even then, saying it was just an intern or a web developer who made a mistake, or there's a communication breakdown happening somewhere, it should at least be responded to with a, "thanks for pointing this out, our bad," type of thing.

You wouldn't give the same pass to your favorite other builder or company. It's just a $300 bass, sure, but a lot of these have been sold. It could shape someone's idea of what a humbucker is only for them to be confused down the road. Again, there are more important things happening in the world, but I'm not going to just give them a total pass here because it's affordable.

Getting hung up on word choice, marketing semantics, and armchair legalese is disingenuous and comes across as corporate bootlicking - so rock and roll! :rollno:
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Bet you're a fun night out.....
 
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#724
Gunga Din said:
Bet you're a fun night out.....
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I'm not upset at anyone in here, just a bit dumbfounded by the amount of apologists.

Pointing the finger at bassists / consumers and implying it's their fault for interpreting what's actually written too literally just doesn't seem like the answer here.
 
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#727
SleepyShark said:
giphy.gif


I'm not upset at anyone in here, just a bit dumbfounded by the amount of apologists.

Pointing the finger at bassists / consumers and implying it's their fault for interpreting what's actually written too literally just doesn't seem like the answer here.
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I echo these sentiments. I'm not upset because I purchased the bass. I buy plenty of turds, review them, sell them, and move on. I've got no emotional investment or attachment to the instruments I review. I'm upset because a trusted manufacturer is not just deceiving me, but all of their bass playing customers who own, have purchased, or considered purchasing this instrument. The bass was highly regarded here and elsewhere for being one of the best short scale values out there. There are hundreds if not thousands of people out there, whether on this forum or not, that have purchased this instrument with the expectation that this bass has humbucking pickups and have put trust in the manufacturer, retailers, and reviewers who all say that the instrument has humbuckers. We need to have a certain level of trust in the manufacturers we purchase instruments from, and this situation seriously erodes that trust for Gretsch/Fender.
 
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#728
redrockit said:
They really are! One is especially toxic and they have a "Staff Member" label. Total disregard of the blatant facts presented...dismissive. Scathing personal attacks is all they have left. Very unprofessional behavior, something I wouldn't want my company to be associated with if I was Gretsch/FMIC. Ridiculous and churlish.
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I second that opinion. I'm the OP of the video over on the Gretsch site and figured there'd be similar interest like there has been here on TalkBass. Boy, was I wrong. A couple times I tried to temper the rage saying if they want to give Gretsch/Fender the benefit of doubt, they owe the same to Lobster and, even if they don't agree, being respectful was in order. That only upped the fury.

The fact is, for some the chance to spew vitriol in anonymity is their idea of a good time. That's why I like this forum. It's a sane and respectful environment. Even if we don't all agree all the time.
 
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#729
blackat said:
I second that opinion. I'm the OP of the video over on the Gretsch site and figured there'd be similar interest like there has been here on TalkBass. Boy, was I wrong. A couple times I tried to temper the rage saying if they want to give Gretsch/Fender the benefit of doubt, they owe the same to Lobster and, even if they don't agree, being respectful was in order. That only upped the fury.

The fact is, for some the chance to spew vitriol in anonymity is their idea of a good time. That's why I like this forum. It's a sane and respectful environment. Even if we don't all agree all the time.
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Agreed. TalkBass is generally better than a majority of music forums out there. Just don't bright up instrument weight. :D
 
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#731
LowEndLobster said:
I echo these sentiments. I'm not upset because I purchased the bass. I buy plenty of turds, review them, sell them, and move on. I've got no emotional investment or attachment to the instruments I review. I'm upset because a trusted manufacturer is not just deceiving me, but all of their bass playing customers who own, have purchased, or considered purchasing this instrument. The bass was highly regarded here and elsewhere for being one of the best short scale values out there. There are hundreds if not thousands of people out there, whether on this forum or not, that have purchased this instrument with the expectation that this bass has humbucking pickups and have put trust in the manufacturer, retailers, and reviewers who all say that the instrument has humbuckers. We need to have a certain level of trust in the manufacturers we purchase instruments from, and this situation seriously erodes that trust for Gretsch/Fender.
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Thank you for all you do for this community.
 
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#732
LowEndLobster said:
I echo these sentiments. I'm not upset because I purchased the bass. I buy plenty of turds, review them, sell them, and move on. I've got no emotional investment or attachment to the instruments I review. I'm upset because a trusted manufacturer is not just deceiving me, but all of their bass playing customers who own, have purchased, or considered purchasing this instrument. The bass was highly regarded here and elsewhere for being one of the best short scale values out there. There are hundreds if not thousands of people out there, whether on this forum or not, that have purchased this instrument with the expectation that this bass has humbucking pickups and have put trust in the manufacturer, retailers, and reviewers who all say that the instrument has humbuckers. We need to have a certain level of trust in the manufacturers we purchase instruments from, and this situation seriously erodes that trust for Gretsch/Fender.
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TB server issues are keeping me from "liking" this post.

Edit: Looks like the issues have been fixed and a "like" has been achieved.
 
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#733
LowEndLobster said:
I echo these sentiments. I'm not upset because I purchased the bass. I buy plenty of turds, review them, sell them, and move on. I've got no emotional investment or attachment to the instruments I review. I'm upset because a trusted manufacturer is not just deceiving me, but all of their bass playing customers who own, have purchased, or considered purchasing this instrument. The bass was highly regarded here and elsewhere for being one of the best short scale values out there. There are hundreds if not thousands of people out there, whether on this forum or not, that have purchased this instrument with the expectation that this bass has humbucking pickups and have put trust in the manufacturer, retailers, and reviewers who all say that the instrument has humbuckers. We need to have a certain level of trust in the manufacturers we purchase instruments from, and this situation seriously erodes that trust for Gretsch/Fender.
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Your opinion seems to have always been that the company is knowingly deceiving people. That is where I disagree with you and I think is largely why so many people are pushing back. I can't think of a scenario in which I would think FMIC did this knowingly. 1. You have to assume that everyone thinks that humbuckers are better. I don't and I know a lot of people (jazz players I am looking at you) agree. 2. You have to assume that this is saving them tons of money and would be profitable to deceive people over and I doubt that is true. Cheap humbuckers and cheap single coils are probably all in the same relative price range. 3. You would have to assume that one or both of the first options would be enough of a win for them to not care about fallout of someone finding out. Again perspective. Its disappointing but crying fraud and deception is a large stretch. You also mention its highly regarded as one of the best short scale values out there. That reputation happened with those stock pickups. I don't think what is stated on a website changes that.
 
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#735
80jazz said:
Does this apply to that CLF Research L-2500 Series 750 in tangerine metallic you just picked up?

I might take it off your hands if not...
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You leave my girlfriend out of this! XD I purchased that for my personal stash, it's not part of the 'review rotation'. She's a keeper too, lots of fun that one is.
 
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#736
Johnny Alien said:
Your opinion seems to have always been that the company is knowingly deceiving people. That is where I disagree with you and I think is largely why so many people are pushing back. I can't think of a scenario in which I would think FMIC did this knowingly. 1. You have to assume that everyone thinks that humbuckers are better. I don't and I know a lot of people (jazz players I am looking at you) agree. 2. You have to assume that this is saving them tons of money and would be profitable to deceive people over and I doubt that is true. Cheap humbuckers and cheap single coils are probably all in the same relative price range. 3. You would have to assume that one or both of the first options would be enough of a win for them to not care about fallout of someone finding out. Again perspective. Its disappointing but crying fraud and deception is a large stretch. You also mention its highly regarded as one of the best short scale values out there. That reputation happened with those stock pickups. I don't think what is stated on a website changes that.
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They have, so far, intentionally chosen to ignore this question.

The assumptions begin at why they haven't responded to, clarified, or corrected the claim. Even a Tweet would count as a reply in today's age. So it is, at the very least, interesting that they're radio silent. This has surely hit someone's inbox at Fender/Gretsch - I realize this itself is an assumption but it doesn't seem like a reach.
 
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#737
Most companies take their time to investigate (or wait until it blows over), unless the media gets involved. A YT-video, two internet forum threads and three emails do not warrant a public reply. A reporter asking questions, a pending lawsuit or hordes of angry bassplayers blowing up their SoMe might trigger them, though. So far, this is a faint tickle, easily dismissed.
 
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#738
Haans said:
Most companies take their time to investigate (or wait until it blows over), unless the media gets involved. A YT-video, two internet forum threads and three emails do not warrant a public reply. A reporter asking questions, a pending lawsuit or hordes of angry bassplayers blowing up their SoMe might trigger them, though. So far, this is a faint tickle, easily dismissed.
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I agree that it doesn't warrant a reply if we're going by a playbook from 2005.

It would amuse me, though, that a company would intentionally ride it out while they (hopefully) investigate in today's age. "We're not trying to lie to anyone and we're looking into it" is all it would take. This topic would be mostly buttoned up.

Dismissing the hardcore nerds on the internet is an old fashioned mindset - but hey, this is Fender we're talking about!
 
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#739
Johnny Alien said:
Your opinion seems to have always been that the company is knowingly deceiving people. That is where I disagree with you and I think is largely why so many people are pushing back. I can't think of a scenario in which I would think FMIC did this knowingly. 1. You have to assume that everyone thinks that humbuckers are better. I don't and I know a lot of people (jazz players I am looking at you) agree. 2. You have to assume that this is saving them tons of money and would be profitable to deceive people over and I doubt that is true. Cheap humbuckers and cheap single coils are probably all in the same relative price range. 3. You would have to assume that one or both of the first options would be enough of a win for them to not care about fallout of someone finding out. Again perspective. Its disappointing but crying fraud and deception is a large stretch. You also mention its highly regarded as one of the best short scale values out there. That reputation happened with those stock pickups. I don't think what is stated on a website changes that.
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To your point 1) - Yeah..........no. Sure, lots of players prefer single coils. But if a builder chooses to make a two-pickup bass with single coils there is absolutely no reason that they wouldn't make one of the pickups reverse wound/reverse polarity so that they cancel hum when used at equal volume. That's a -zero- cost thing. This is exactly what practically every single coil jazz bass has, even at rock-bottom price points. And it seems like this was probably the intention with this bass, since the pickups in both positions are clearly labeled "BRIDGE". If they had not intended to use distinct pickups for neck and bridge, they wouldn't have labelled them at all, ya know?

I think this is pretty clearly a mistake.

It's still technically incorrect to say that that a single coil set with one RWRP pickup are "humbuckers"; that implies that each pickup is a dual coil humbucker. It's correct to call them "hum-cancelling single coils". So I don't know if the original specification for this bass was to have actual humbuckers or hum-cancelling single coils, but it's clear that it has neither.

Regarding 2), Humbuckers, whether cheap or expensive, have two coils and two magnets; still only one casing, so not necessarily double the cost of a single coil, but definitely closer to it.

I don't think FMIC did this intentionally, but it's hard to imagine that no one in the company ever noticed a problem. I mean, the first time you pull a neck pickup out of a bass and it says "BRIDGE" on the underside, ya gotta know there's a problem. Could be that they looked at the cost to correct it and decided they'd wait and see how big of a problem it was from a customer satisfaction standpoint, i.e. "eh, let's wait and see if anyone complains about it".
 
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