I might be kicked off TB for this, but.....

[DiabolusInMusic]

So far the only thing this thread HAS proven is that quite a few Jaco fans are also huge fans of logical fallacies.

I don't mean to be rude but I don't think you understand logical fallacies.

Jaco was hired for his groove time and time again, much like any other name player in R&B/soul/funk. You've even acknowledged that some of his tracks groove, indicating you are aware of his groove. While Jaco didn't groove in every song he chose whether he wanted to or not. To say Jaco lacked groove is misinformed.

Maybe you're just applying some strange notion of groove which the rest of us are uncertain. If this is the case I would encourage you to elaborate.

 

[halvis]

I think this thread has officially entered the ...

 

[madmanmerc]

Yes.

Many of us do.

I think you'll find that John Taylor of Duran Duran has more universal appeal than Jaco

John kicks ass

 

[halvis]

Please to define "universal appeal"... I mean, comparing Duran Duran to Weather Report is akin to comparing modern Day Deep Purple, to the Dixie Dregs, the Dregs, or the Steve morse band. All of which contain Steve Morse. Does Deep purple have more "universal appeal"? Perhaps, but that and two wooden nickels won't buy you a coca cola. jmho.

 

[David Jayne]

Listen to this, particularly from 1:58 on. Lethal groove here. First time I heard this, driving from the record store I just about drove my car off the road.

 

[jwilson67]

Here's a snippet of an interview with Chester Thompson - who is an incredible groove player in regards to playing in Weather Report with Alphonso Johnson as opposed to Jaco:

"World of Genesis: Was it different working with Jaco from a ‘clicking’ standpoint? Were these differences musical or personal?

Chester Thompson:It was all of the above, really. Jaco was very much wanting to be in the band. So, he was pretty much being the ‘Yes Man’ to whatever they said (laughs). The rehearsals were a bit strange, because the songs that I had just recorded with Alphonso (Johnson) playing bass were 180 degrees different with Jaco (playing bass). Alphonso had this wonderful sense of space when he played, and Jaco was just all notes. It just didn’t work. I suppose, I certainly could have made the adjustment, musically, but to be honest, I really didn’t care to."

 

[bucephylus]

The "Liberty City" cut is decent. I can enjoy that. Almost hard to believe that is actually Jaco, tone wise..

You think that scratches the surface of the tone you mentioned regarding the 360?

"Scratches the surface" of the J Bass/360 tone is precisely why I put that clip up. It almost gets there without the jaw dropping impact. My point being the rig has way more clanky grunt than fart to it. I understand the fart perceptions; but, really that was not his sound. FWIW

Glad you enjoyed Liberty City. Jaco in his element.

 

[David Jayne]

Glad you enjoyed Liberty City. Jaco in his element.

Word Of Mouth is just such a great album. It's worth noting that in addition to writing the whole thing and creating all of the charts and arrangements, in addition to playing electric on it he also played some acoustic bass, piano, organ, synthesizers, autoharp, percussion, vocals and drums. He was a pretty talented guy.

 

[lfmn16]

I might be kicked off TB for this, but.....

You don't get kicked off TB for not liking something, you get kicked off for being a d'bag about not liking something. There is a difference.

 

[JackANSI]

I don't mean to be rude but I don't think you understand logical fallacies.

Jaco was hired for his groove time and time again, much like any other name player in R&B/soul/funk. You've even acknowledged that some of his tracks groove, indicating you are aware of his groove. While Jaco didn't groove in every song he chose whether he wanted to or not. To say Jaco lacked groove is misinformed.

Maybe you're just applying some strange notion of groove which the rest of us are uncertain. If this is the case I would encourage you to elaborate.

He does have groove on some tracks, who knows if those were his choice. His solo work, work that he definitely chose, shows little groove (as a whole) at best. I define a true groove as one that anyone can find the beat and not get lost. Not just trained musicians.

Oh:

Nobody who is a name player in R&B, soul, or funk doesn't have groove. The sheer notion of such is absurd.

argumentum ad lapidem

Or just has terrible groove themselves. ...

argumentum ad hominem


I'll return one: If his groove is so undeniable.. why is there even a single person who can't feel it?

 

[FlatwoundFunk]

Another interesting thread destroyed by lack of reading comprehension and overflowing emotions. I want to answer your questions, but in all honesty after reading 9 pages of this I honestly feel it will be lost.

Sorry OP for I can see the sincerity.
FF

 

[Roxbororob]

Step away from the keyboard....

 

[halvis]

does the popcorn dance...

 

[matthewbrown]

I'm really just not that into Jaco.

Now before the lynching begins, I do greatly respect what he has done as a bassist. I am completely aware of the impact he has has on our instrument.

I am just not a fan of his material. I have given many videos on Youtube of him an honest chance. I find it is lacking groove with a very undesirable tone.

In the interest of an open discussion, I will gladly watch an listen to anything that you may suggest. I honestly do want to find something of his that I can really latch onto, but so far, I haven't.

Does anyone else feel this way about any other trailblazing bassists?

I wasn't that into Charlie Parker at one time. Tone was abrasive; too many notes. But the more I listened, the more I appreciated what it was he was up to. Likewise Jimi Hendrix.

Some of Jaco's stuff is really not all that good; he could be very uneven, because of his illness. But at his best, there was no one at the time who was even trying to get the sounds he was getting, nor was anyone able to work within a fusion group like Weather Report as an equal voice in the band as he did. And Joni Mitchell's work with him (try listening to her live concert in NYC with Metheny, Jaco and Brecker) showed his ability to blend in with a rhythm section and support a singer in a whole new way.

Jaco's style may or may not appeal, but that his style and his technical approach have shaped how every electric bassist in jazz since has approached the instrument is hard to deny.

 

[Bigbri]

I'm really just not that into Jaco.

Now before the lynching begins, I do greatly respect what he has done as a bassist. I am completely aware of the impact he has has on our instrument.

I am just not a fan of his material. I have given many videos on Youtube of him an honest chance. I find it is lacking groove with a very undesirable tone.

In the interest of an open discussion, I will gladly watch an listen to anything that you may suggest. I honestly do want to find something of his that I can really latch onto, but so far, I haven't.

Does anyone else feel this way about any other trailblazing bassists?

Try Joni Mitchell's Shadow and light tour. "In France they kiss on mainstreet." and "Free man in paris." Jaco laid down a killer groove in those songs especially when you listen to older recordings with different players. Also "Live in italy" has a version of "I shot the Sheriff." that is unreal. That should give you a taste of Jaco's top 40 ability.
You got to give him creds for things like Portraite of Tracy and inventing the whole frettless jazz bass thing.

 

[MDBass]

I'm really just not that into Jaco.

Now before the lynching begins, I do greatly respect what he has done as a bassist. I am completely aware of the impact he has has on our instrument.

I am just not a fan of his material. I have given many videos on Youtube of him an honest chance. I find it is lacking groove with a very undesirable tone.

In the interest of an open discussion, I will gladly watch an listen to anything that you may suggest. I honestly do want to find something of his that I can really latch onto, but so far, I haven't.

Does anyone else feel this way about any other trailblazing bassists?

I don't listen to his stuff too often either, but you've obviously never heard his work with Joni Mitchell if one of your main issues with him is a "lack of groove"...his pocket, phrasing, control, harmonic depth and intonation on a fretless are all pretty remarkable.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

He does have groove on some tracks, who knows if those were his choice. His solo work, work that he definitely chose, shows little groove (as a whole) at best. I define a true groove as one that anyone can find the beat and not get lost. Not just trained musicians.

Oh:


argumentum ad lapidem



argumentum ad hominem


I'll return one: If his groove is so undeniable.. why is there even a single person who can't feel it?

Can you provide examples of Jaco losing the beat and not finding his place in the rhythm? If that is your definition of groove Jaco most certainly had it. The man could play almost any style with ease. He was hired by many band leaders for his grasp on rhythm. Zawinul didn't work with slouches. I am not even going to address the "who knows if those were his choices" statement as Jaco was hired for his abilities and not as a studio musician expected to deliver other people's parts.

Again, nobody who has built their name and reputation on groove can possibly be considered "without grove." How do you think people get hired or become name players in such groove heavy genres? It certainly isn't by lacking a groove. I stated my reasons for the absurdity of a notion, I am sorry if they were not clear enough.

That is not an attack on the person it is an indicator that they may not understand grooving. That is like me saying "Stephen Hawkins is terrible at physics." As a person who has no grasp on physics I lack the background to qualify such a statement. A person without groove could have a hard time discerning groove, it's not a diss it's an observation.

EDIT: I forgot to address your last question. Not everybody gets groove or likes to groove, nothing wrong with not enjoying Jaco's groove. If you don't find a swingin' 16th bass line groovin' the issue is not with the bass line or the player, it's with the listener.

 

[Bigbri]

I wasn't that into Charlie Parker at one time. Tone was abrasive; too many notes. But the more I listened, the more I appreciated what it was he was up to. Likewise Jimi Hendrix.

Some of Jaco's stuff is really not all that good; he could be very uneven, because of his illness. But at his best, there was no one at the time who was even trying to get the sounds he was getting, nor was anyone able to work within a fusion group like Weather Report as an equal voice in the band as he did. And Joni Mitchell's work with him (try listening to her live concert in NYC with Metheny, Jaco and Brecker) showed his ability to blend in with a rhythm section and support a singer in a whole new way.

Jaco's style may or may not appeal, but that his style and his technical approach have shaped how every electric bassist in jazz since has approached the instrument is hard to deny.

Joni Mitchell Shadows and Light tour. In France they kiss on mainstreet and Freeman in Paris. Joni said Jaco was the only bass player she could find that was able to understand and play her music. Also I shot the sheriff from live in Italy.

 

[halvis]

the bottom end is near...

 

[GregT]

In my life I have only listened to Jaco once. Ever. It was only because He was mentioned so much here on TB. Same goes for Jeff Berlin. I am just not into bass as a lead instrument. At least it is a good and valid opinion. I am not going to dispute their talent though.