It looks like poor Carol Kaye doesn't understand the internet

[mister-o]

Isn't that exactly how people are treating CK? Even the thread title could be taken as an insult.

Surely you can agree that the poor behavior of others does not justify participating in the same kind of poor behavior? I'm not trying to attack you, but turning your point around suggests that I should simply insult you back rather than confronting the original insults on their own terms. Such an approach is neither constructive nor appropriate, and I hope you would agree.

I went back to my posts to make sure I wasn't throwing stones in a glass house. I don't think I ever insulted Carol (it's also worth mentioning that I don't have an opinion one way or the other as to whether your insults had anything to do with me). Nor do I think it is OK that anyone else has.

 

[THand]

What new ground would that be? Making a news site responsible for the events they report? Making Google responsible for the actions of any site it indexes?

I completely sympathize with her desire to curtail illegal distribution of her works. However, she's completely fallen off the reality train here. These email rants of her's aren't helping anyone.

I think that is what we will eventually see, reguardless of what Carol Kaye does. I think something similar is happening with Google in Italy right now. The interenet is already controlled alot more than it was 10 years ago.

I don't like that direction, BTW, but I really believe that's where the web anyway, is heading. The super determined can find a way(like maybe FTP), but we are also seeing the carriers getting involved like AT&T and Comcast where they are starting to monitor how much bandwidth you use.

I don't know all the answers by anymeans, but I do know that eventually it will be stopped. There is too much money being lost, and it is wrong. Society already is looking down much more on filesharing than it did in the Metallica/Napster days...hell, back then, I didn't see anything wrong with it myself.
My point of view has definatley changed since the coming of broadband and torrents.

Not to mention that these downloads have become so poluted with spyware, malware, and viruses...I don't see anybody but highschool and maybe college kids who just don't have cash downloading illeagally much longer.

 

[Pablo Fanque]

But there is no money at stake in the places she's going after. We could care less if she was going after sites that actually hosted her material.But THAT is why this is so ridiculous, she's having a temper tantrum about loosing money on a news site that hasn't touched her stuff. And then swearing up a storm at whoever tries to help her, including her fans.

It's like the guy who went to Wendy's after the Super Bowl and cussed out the staff because they wouldn't give him his free Grand Slam Breakfast.

You won't give her a free pass for ignorance?

 

[Rick_no7]

I get so bored by the arrogant nerds who think because they know C++ and the Unix file system that they are so smart. Get a girlfriend.

The internet is changing too, my little buck-toothed, pocket protected, friends.

John Gabriels Internet ****wad theory

Normal people + Anonymity + Audience = Total ****wad

Now, if my fat, balding, beer guzzling football watchin jock-wannabe friends need help with the math, I'm sure we can find tutors.

 

[mister-o]

John Gabriels Internet ****wad theory

Normal people + Anonymity + Audience = Total ****wad

Now, if my fat, balding, beer guzzling football watchin jock-wannabe friends need help with the math, I'm sure we can find tutors.

Look...the reference is funny, but bringing it up in this way just to insult the guy you're responding to does nothing to help the conversation either.

 

[zenrad]

Ok, so if I understand the new model of how things work here's how I see it - if I post links to the sites where users can download all of TB'ers published works, CD, books, DVDs, etc. - basically the means by which you earn money and pay for rent and food - if I post links to the sites that give it away for free thereby enabling folks to get your work for nothing, you don't get paid for it, they get it without paying for it but it's not stealing and I'm not responsible and I've done nothing wrong because I'm not posting the material myself.

Do I have this right?

Hey, maybe I can get some click-through ads on my site (that only redirects others to illegal downloads) and I can make money from advertisers off the backs of others who are working and sacrificing to make a product while all I'm doing is just pointing to stuff that's already out there. Not my fault. I didn't steal it, I'm just telling you where to go to find it.

Yeah, I think I'm really getting this now.

I think I'll add some code to make countless other windows pop up after you get on my site so with each hit I can generate 5 times as much ad revenue just by people visiting. As long as others continue to work and contribute art music or other publications, I can make a decent living. It's the philosophy of greed and entitlement at its best.

Man, I was SO 20th century with my thinking. Honesty, integrity, honor. Foolish concepts that kept me from getting the free stuff I deserve.

 

[Rick_no7]

Look...the reference is funny, but bringing it up in this way just to insult the guy you're responding to does nothing to help the conversation either.

I mirrored his own post to bring out the ridiculousness of it. To bring in the jock vs nerd argument is completely silly in a post such as this.

 

[THand]

Surely you can agree that the poor behavior of others does not justify participating in the same kind of poor behavior? I'm not trying to attack you, but turning your point around suggests that I should simply insult you back rather than confronting the original insults on their own terms. Such an approach is neither constructive nor appropriate, and I hope you would agree.

I went back to my posts to make sure I wasn't throwing stones in a glass house. I don't think I ever insulted Carol (it's also worth mentioning that I don't have an opinion one way or the other as to whether your insults had anything to do with me). Nor do I think it is OK that anyone else has.

Okay man, no hard feeling towards you, or anybody else.

My main reason for posting in this originally was to say, nah to the idea that JAUQO III-X should straighten Carol out.

That's just not how she rolls...IMO/IME

I find the whole thread depressing. I don't like Carol doing her attack the world tactics, because eventhough she is justified in the case,IMO, she does this alot to people who admire and respect her and I wish she would stop.

I don't like people ripping her off either. I paid good money for my materials, and it was worth it too me.

I also hate what I see as the inevitable government control and intervention growing and putting a stranglehold on the internet. But I think that is coming whether I hate it or not and whether Carol is just blowing smoke or not.Whether they do it to stop illegal downloads, or in the name of stopping terrorism...it is coming. The ground work was laid with "The Patroit Act".

Another one of my heros is Richard Stallman, so I don't harbor any nerd/geek hate...I hate when they(we) act superior..especially to senior citizens. No she doesn't understand all of this as well as she thinks she does, but how many people her age are willing to even learn how to do email? She is running her own webbased business successfully, which is something alot of nerds can't do. I think she deserves much more respect.

I don't think money is the issue with her either. I think it is simply...you don't mess with Carol Kaye.

 

[THand]

Look...the reference is funny, but bringing it up in this way just to insult the guy you're responding to does nothing to help the conversation either.

I've been on the internet since before he was born. No worries.

 

[rockinrayduke]

Originally Posted by Gawd
After she hurled some insults at me, for playing metal, and saying that I was too stupid to learn anything (some teacher), and some other stuff like calling me a liar.

This is a complete fabrication, but most of it I agree with.

You are correct. That's something I hate about her. She will trash the very people who come to her for help, if they don't agree with her. She is dedicated to teaching what she knows as being correct. She knows what she teaches works. Unfortunately, she doesn't seem to care to hear different points of view. My impression is if you want to learn from her, she will do everything she can to teach you her way, if you want to deviate from that, she is fine showing you the door.

Isn't that why you seek out a teacher in the first place? And you "hate" that about her? If you want to "deviate" then maybe you're better off playing along to mp3's and not wasting her time. Or your time.

 

[YL_Bass]

Ok, so if I understand the new model of how things work here's how I see it - if I post links to the sites where users can download all of TB'ers published works, CD, books, DVDs, etc. - basically the means by which you earn money and pay for rent and food - if I post links to the sites that give it away for free thereby enabling folks to get your work for nothing, you don't get paid for it, they get it without paying for it but it's not stealing and I'm not responsible and I've done nothing wrong because I'm not posting the material myself.

Do I have this right?

Hey, maybe I can get some click-through ads on my site (that only redirects others to illegal downloads) and I can make money from advertisers off the backs of others who are working and sacrificing to make a product while all I'm doing is just pointing to stuff that's already out there. Not my fault. I didn't steal it, I'm just telling you where to go to find it.

Yeah, I think I'm really getting this now.

I think I'll add some code to make countless other windows pop up after you get on my site so with each hit I can generate 5 times as much ad revenue just by people visiting. As long as others continue to work and contribute art music or other publications, I can make a decent living. It's the philosophy of greed and entitlement at its best.

Man, I was SO 20th century with my thinking. Honesty, integrity, honor. Foolish concepts that kept me from getting the free stuff I deserve.

I think the final issue is this.

Carol went after sites that did not link to her content, nor hosted any illegal content for anyone. When people mentioned this to her to save her from embarrassing herself and legal costs she reacted with vehemence.

The issue is not her playing.

The issue is not her ignorance because others attempted to help her with that, so no she doesn't get a pass.

The issue is how she treated people. Which was to vilify them and cuss at them when they were trying to help her.

 

[mister-o]

I've been on the internet since before he was born. No worries.

Believe me, I wasn't responding to him in order to protect you I'm not trying to play playground cop, either, but it bothers me when debates turn sour for trivial reasons. "It's just a stupid discussion on a forum, no one gets hurt." Sure. But a person's tendency to be mean or uncaring in one setting often carries over to others, even if they can intellectually separate them. The saying "you can tell a lot about someone by how he/she treats the waiter" is not meaningless. Not that I know anything about how you treat waiters

 

[mister-o]

Hey, maybe I can get some click-through ads on my site (that only redirects others to illegal downloads) and I can make money from advertisers off the backs of others who are working and sacrificing to make a product while all I'm doing is just pointing to stuff that's already out there. Not my fault. I didn't steal it, I'm just telling you where to go to find it.

You realize that you just described www.google.com, right? If I introduce you to my friend and he picks your pocket, am I a thief? Maybe, if my friend and I had an agreement beforehand. There are colors other than black and white.

 

[PZapdos]

You realize that you just described www.google.com, right? If I introduce you to my friend and he picks your pocket, am I a thief? Maybe, if my friend and I had an agreement beforehand. There are colors other than black and white.

Completely true. One of the largest, fastest growing companies in the world is exactly what he described.

 

[zenrad]

The saying "you can tell a lot about someone by how he/she treats the waiter" is not meaningless.

Unless you're nice to waiter just to make people think you're nice.

A long time ago I was in a stadium parking lot waiting to be let into the show.
I met some girl and shook her hand.
She said "Wow you have a strong handshake. You must be very self-confident...or totally insecure and trying to fool everyone into believing you're self-confident."

It made me laugh, and I never forgot that.

 

[zenrad]

You realize that you just described www.google.com, right? If I introduce you to my friend and he picks your pocket, am I a thief? Maybe, if my friend and I had an agreement beforehand. There are colors other than black and white.

And three Google execs in Italy were just sentenced for allowing a video of a child with Down's Syndrome being abused to be posted.

Link Removed

Unfortunately their laws allow someone with no prior criminal record to receive a suspended sentence, otherwise they each could have gone to prison for 6 years.

The point is people do not remain blameless for every action.

This is where honor, integrity and honesty come to play.

Sadly, those things are very hard to find anymore.

 

[zenrad]

"In an Internet law ruling that is not only the first of its kind, but that may have wide implications - indeed worldwide implications - for Internet law, privacy law, and Google and any other sites that host images, three Google executives have been sentenced to 6 months in prison by an Italian court, over the public posting of a video of a disabled boy with Down’s syndrome being bullied by four other boys, in Turin, Italy. The three convicted Google executives are Google Privacy Director Peter Fleischer, Senior VP David Carl Drummond (formerly director of Google Italy), and George De Los Reyes, a retired Google financial executive."

Both viewpoints are represented in the story
http://www.theinternetpatrol.com/3-...d-to-6-months-jail-over-video-privacy-issues/

Enjoy the Internet for what it is now - the Wild West. I predict you won't recognize it in 10 years time.

 

[YL_Bass]

"In an Internet law ruling that is not only the first of its kind, but that may have wide implications - indeed worldwide implications - for Internet law, privacy law, and Google and any other sites that host images, three Google executives have been sentenced to 6 months in prison by an Italian court, over the public posting of a video of a disabled boy with Down’s syndrome being bullied by four other boys, in Turin, Italy. The three convicted Google executives are Google Privacy Director Peter Fleischer, Senior VP David Carl Drummond (formerly director of Google Italy), and George De Los Reyes, a retired Google financial executive."

Both viewpoints are represented in the story
http://www.theinternetpatrol.com/3-...d-to-6-months-jail-over-video-privacy-issues/

Enjoy the Internet for what it is now - the Wild West. I predict you won't recognize it in 10 years time.

LOL yeah but that's Italy. You should look up some other articles on the Italian court system. It hardly reflects the rest of the world. And if that judgement holds to appeals I will eat my words with jam and ketchup.

Edit: added an apostrophe

 

[baalroo]

You realize that you just described www.google.com, right? If I introduce you to my friend and he picks your pocket, am I a thief? Maybe, if my friend and I had an agreement beforehand. There are colors other than black and white.

Yeah, these people who think that a dying industry like the recording industry is going to have more government influence about the Internet than giant powerhouse growing companies like Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, etc is just simply laughable. The recording industry ALREADY TRIED to regulate this stuff 10 years ago when they were at their prime and they failed, what makes anyone think it'll happen now when most of the industry insiders have thrown in the towel and now LEAK THEIR OWN ALBUMS to the filesharing sites?

 

[zenrad]

Ok, so for the folks who think I'm foolish for expecting copyright laws to be enforced, I will ask for your solution.

Should we abolish copyright laws?
How will artists, authors and musicians get paid?
What do you propose as a business model for artists today and in the future?
Should artists pay to produce their products and give them away for free because others deserve to be entertained? If so, should artists, authors, etc. perform their work as a form of charity? If so, should it be tax deductible as charitable giving is?