Dominick C.
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I was waiting to see a Bamboo Monique on the M700. Just like I thought, it fits like a glove.
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Jule Amps Monique part 5
- Thread starter Chef
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Dominick C.
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Dominick C.
Guest
Lynchburg, I mean what's the worst that could happen for waking the hood at 1am with serious bass?
O.K....... first a confession: I am a bit of a strange fish in the wrong pond here since I don't actually play Bass, I play the Irish Bouzouki. I am on this forum mainly because I am fascinated with the Monique and as an acoustic instrumentalist I often look for similar qualities in my equipment as a Bass player would: full clean warm sounds with great note definition and clarity, full range odd and even harmonics, and zero latency. (O.K. the aesthetics of the Dove Cage are a huge draw here as well). I think its pretty clear from these threads that the Monique seems to fulfill that role well for the bass and that a lot of people love their Moniques. But since I play an instrument with a higher note range, the one issue I worry about with equipment specifically designed for bass is perhaps too much focus on the low end and not enough definition and/or volume on the high end. Although I don't minding losing some of the brightness on the high end, I don't want to loss the attack and definition.
So does anyone here have any personal experience or bandmates/friends/etc. that have tried putting an acoustic guitar, mandolin or bouzouki through the Monique? How did it work? Even if you haven't actually tried it any opinions on how it would fare? I was also wondering if maybe someone in the Minneapolis/St.Paul area in Minnesota owns one and if they wouldn't mind meeting up maybe I could try playing through theirs for a couple of minutes. I would want to try it as a DI into a PA. Just trying to get a bit more info. Jules said he would be happy to allow me to try one and return it if it didn't work out, but I really hate going through that hassle for either party. Its almost tax return time so........
I was also thinking of trying another similar product from a different company which is apparently designed for the full spectrum of sound, but I have to admit, I am far more "drawn" to the Monique.
Any Input/Info?
Thanks a ton.
So does anyone here have any personal experience or bandmates/friends/etc. that have tried putting an acoustic guitar, mandolin or bouzouki through the Monique? How did it work? Even if you haven't actually tried it any opinions on how it would fare? I was also wondering if maybe someone in the Minneapolis/St.Paul area in Minnesota owns one and if they wouldn't mind meeting up maybe I could try playing through theirs for a couple of minutes. I would want to try it as a DI into a PA. Just trying to get a bit more info. Jules said he would be happy to allow me to try one and return it if it didn't work out, but I really hate going through that hassle for either party. Its almost tax return time so........
I was also thinking of trying another similar product from a different company which is apparently designed for the full spectrum of sound, but I have to admit, I am far more "drawn" to the Monique.
Any Input/Info?
Thanks a ton.
- Dec 10, 2006
- 1,338
- 2,180
- Disclosures
- Owner and creator of Jule Amps: Monique and Simone and Bass Amps
Thank you.Hello All,
Happy New Year.
This is a long one. Maybe someone who reads it all will find something useful.Sorry, but I don't have any sound clips.
My first test drive of the Jule Amps Monique bass preamp
Last night, finally I got organized enough to unpack my newly arrived Monique and try it out.
Disclaimer: Currently I monitor my bass playing only with headphones. Nice, open air ones, but headphones nonetheless. Still, in my former home studio, I used to track and mix through these phones, alternating with monitors, so I have a good sense of how their sound correlates to instrument or stereo speakers and amps.
Disclaimer: I am not suggesting that anyone modify their Monique preamp in any way. If you break or diminish any equipment of yours by trying something I describe here, I am not responsible.
The significance of octal preamp tube types
When I learned of the Monique preamp, I read all I could find about it online. I was surprised not to see any mention of the Monique’s octal preamp tubes as being significant. As a collector of both miniature and octal preamp and power tube types, I thought this would be one of the main selling points.
As I started corresponding with Jule, preparing for my order of a Monique, I mentioned this to him:
"The 6S?7 I use in 12A?7 slots via custom adapters. I have found this to be a great way to impart 1960s and 70s preamps with an aspect of the 1940s tube audio sound. In my experience, current day musicians usually are not familiar with the sound of octal preamp tubes and big bottle power tubes. Luxurious and slow, with an enormous sound field (even in mono) that features spatial presentation of bass frequencies. That’s how big bottle tubes sound to me.
So when I read about your bass preamp, believing it hinged on at least two octal preamp tubes, I knew I wanted to try it."
Jule agreed and gave me some background:
"Good to work with someone who knows the value of an octal tube… Truly as you describe… A much larger tonal envelope than any of the 9 pins. Beautiful… It did take me a while to "tame" them. One does not substitute them directly without getting some bruises. But I have been using them for a long time."
Design and build quality
To me, in person the Monique looked smaller and “tighter” than in photos. In person, I saw why players relate to the Monique emotionally as an object of desire, and not only as a tool for doing work. Simple, elegant, classic design, and clean, tight, solid fabrication and workmanship. It is an excellent package. No fluff. All substance.
Inside the chassis I saw more of the same. Wiring and soldering were tidy and solid, and the layout looked rational (to a layperson like me). Many components were gooped. At first I thought this was for secrecy or to prevent modifications, but then I saw that probably it mainly was to give structural support to heavier components, namely the larger electrolytic capacitors.
Overall the Monique looks to have been crafted to be rugged enough for mindful, but typical real world use, including gigging.
View attachment 535018
View attachment 535019
Equipment for the test
For bass guitar, my headphone amp is “The Enabler” by 3Leaf Audio. If you don’t know it, The Enabler is a Swiss Army knife-type audio tool for bass guitarists, in pedal form. Basically, with respect to workflow, it is a tiny, solid state equivalent to the Monique, but with the addition of a more flexible EQ section, an aux audio input for practicing with tracks, and a headphone amp. And what a headphone amp. This pedal sucks real power, then uses it to drive headphones with authority and clarity. Sadly 3Leaf recently discontinued production of The Enabler. So if you are considering trying one, I suggest buying it soon since they still are around.
For my first test of the Monique, I used no processors. The path was bass guitar into the Monique, line out into The Enabler, headphone out into the phones.
My only passive bass guitar is in storage. A 1969 Fender Precision, I meant to get it for this test, but was deterred by snowfall. So I used a Suhr Classic J, its preamp flat by default, then sometimes added bass with the guitar’s preamp.
Test plan
The test plan was unstructured at first, but ended up being this:
With The Enabler flat: Monique stock
sensitivity 0 dB or +4 dB, low gain
sensitivity 0 dB or +4 dB, high gain
flat EQ
varied EQ
With The Enabler flat: Monique with vintage tubes
sensitivity 0 dB or +4 dB, low gain
sensitivity 0 dB or +4 dB, high gain
flat EQ
varied EQ
For each test case above, remove the Monique from the path and simulate its settings on The Enabler.
I spent little time in the high gain cases, hearing the value of higher gain settings, but strongly preferring the low gain response. My intent in alternating between the Monique and The Enabler as a primary preamp was to reveal the characteristic differences in the Monique’s tube audio voice to The Enabler’s solid state voice.
Vintage tubes
All but a few of my hundreds of tubes are in storage, so I used what I had on hand at home. That included only one 6SL7, but four 6SN7. The complement of vintage tubes I used were these:
V1: 1944 Ken-Rad JAN-CKR 6SL7GT VT-229 NIB
V2: 1955 CBS Hytron 5692 NIB
V3: 1950s GE 6CA4 NIB
V4: 1950s GE 12AU7
(NIB means “new in box”. 5692 is an industrial version of 6SN7GT. VT-229 is a military version of 6SL7. Allowing for taste, it is safe to say that the two octal tubes in that set, the Ken-Rad and the Hytron, are among the very finest ever made of their types. Older aficionados of vintage tube amps will fall into hushed reverence when the names Hytron or Ken-Rad are mentioned. GE also made many fine tubes, and of course had the good sense to buy Ken-Rad’s tube plant in the early 1940s. Similarly, CBS, which company never made any receiving tubes, I believe, was smart enough to buy Hytron pretty early on.)
I removed all the tube retainers. (Sorry, Jule, but I don’t like retainers.) Anyway, the big sockets especially were so tight that no tube ever could escape them once inserted. Someday, if Jule is willing to, I will request that he build me a Monique using vintage tube sockets and capacitors.
Alternative preamp tube types
6SN7 is to 12AU7 as 6SL7 is to 12AX7. Most people think of “gain” only when comparing 12AX7 to other 12A?7 types. But with 12AU7, particularly, that is not the whole story or the most interesting part. I assume the same is true of 6S?7, and anecdotally have found it to be so in listening to other applications (instrument and stereo amps or receivers).
I am not an electrical engineer, but once I had this explained to me by someone who knew the science. My understanding is that 12AU7 has ten times the headroom of 12AX7; that is, it will amplify ten times what 12AX7 will before distortion. That is why 12AU7 often is used to feed a power amp. Whenever I see a 12AU7 in a modern tube preamp/amp (like the Baer Valkyrie) or preamp (like the Jule Amps Monique), I smile and say “Good choice. They knew.” I own a 1960s Harmon-Kardon receiver that uses a single 12AU7 in this way.
Having only one 6SL7 on hand, and assuming that V2 in the Monique was for the EQ, I felt that swapping a 6SN7 into V2 should yield musical results.
How it sounded
Though I spent about three hours in this my first test of the Monique, it amounts to first impressions. I played the Monique neither with a bass amp stack, nor in a recording scenario, nor using its DI output, nor in an arrangement with other instruments. That said, this is what I thought:
The Jule Amps Monique preamp is a fine instrument. Very responsive to input frequency spectrum and playing dynamics, it features high headroom, loud and clear output, the perfect amount of natural tube audio compression, huge bass frequency response when demanded, and an uncanny tendency to smooth all harshness in high frequencies without sounding dull. It has a voice. It is not neutral-sounding. Rather, the Monique is an archetypal “secret sauce” audio processor, in that it respects and retains the audio it is given, then interprets that input in a certain musical way.
A few special points
- Used with passive pickups, the +4 dB input is seductive and easy to overuse, in the sense that it can overshadow the sound of the 0 dB input. Among other things, in the net sound of the +4 dB input is an emphasis of certain high frequencies, giving an impression of increased clarity. The output does sound clearer, but closer inspection shows that (unsurprisingly) it sounds hotter, more “live”. I found myself alternating between the 0 dB input and raising the output level, and the +4 dB input and a relatively lower output level. All the good stuff is in there with the 0 dB input, too, but distributed differently.
- At first, the EQ controls struck me as being too polite. Good, usable frequency centers and response, but not enough change. Later, however, I found that the power of the EQ was not in extreme tone shaping, but in subtly changing the context for the instrument’s native tone. The key here is usable sounds. Yes, what is usable is the opinion of the player. But for a fairly wide range of classic bass guitar sounds, the Monique’s EQ is powerful because its results are musical, natural-sounding, and usable.
- Related to the point about the EQ section is stacking. Oh… my… goodness. Wow! When you start with a nice, fat, well balanced sort of passive bass guitar sound, then add bass frequencies with the instrument’s preamp, with the Monique’s bass EQ rolled up a bit, the result is a fathomless expanse of unflinching ultra-bass. Big. For all this, nothing else about the spectrum changes. If there was nuanced midrange, it will be there still. Likewise articulate highs. Still there. What a great sonic territory for bass guitar. Comparisons are to vintage SVT with deep bass EQ rolled up, but without the edge, and with no cabinet induced limitations; or to playing direct into a good board and monitoring through big, in-wall studio monitors.
- In stock trim, the Monique sounds great, as described above. But with vintage tubes it sounds better. To me. More relaxed and open, yet not less punchy or authoritative. More articulate, with any vestige of harshness removed, yet not too tame. Even more alive and responsive. In any case, whether with modern or vintage tubes, the Monique is a good platform for tube rolling. Run what you like and hear the difference for yourself. In large part, I bought my Monique for rolling my vintage tubes. In this first test, it was exactly what I hoped for in that regard: a fine instrument with a beautiful voice, able to have its fuller potential realized with a simple, harmless modification.
My thanks go to Jule for making my new Monique preamp. Good job. I think the Monique is destined to become a classic.
- It was instructional to alternate between primary preamps: any given setting on the Monique and simulation of that setting on The Enabler. I did and still do consider The Enabler a "best of modern analog audio" processor, warm and clear sounding for a solid state circuit. But in this test I was impressed by how mercilessly accurate the sound of The Enabler was compared to the sound of the Monique. Also, though without measurements to quantify, I found it hard to recreate with The Enabler any given perceived net output volume of the Monique. Time and again I set The Enabler to match what must be the Monique's output volume, only to have it feel distant and detached. Comparatively, the Monique produced audio that was present and palpable; that somehow was like an acoustic instrument heard up close. In my experience, this behavior is characteristic of tube audio done well.
Best,
Snaxster
When I learned that you collected tubes I figured you would appreciate a bit of what Monique is.
Do the TB-folk know how many Tubes you have?
Yes. The tube retainers are there for the road warriors among us. About a year ago I found the gold plated octal sockets you see installed. They do grip very tightly when compared to the "normal"ones.
The "goop" is exactly as you guessed, there to keep the heavier (large mass) components from bashing about while in transit. Dead ugly, but necessary.
I try not to wax too eloquently as to tube-isH-ness. The objective is always the performance. Still, there is some pretty magic "stuff" going on. Heat. Glow. Electrons. Metal. Vacuum. Glass. And every bit of it makes a difference.
Now that I've said it we can get back to making music.
Thank you.
The Monique is quite full range. My vintage and boooteekee tube loving guitarist played through the Monique. His jaw dropped! Can't hurt to try.
You might want to connect with Myles Jay. Great guy. Easy to talk to. He is part of The Nile Project (I have tickets for Feb 18 at Stanford. Yay!) He is a very accomplished musician who comes from a Classical Bass perspective but has great experience and learning in many of the instruments of Northern Africa and the countries that surround the Eastern Mediterranean. (Close to Ireland?
) So you know he is familiar with Bouzouki-ness.There are "acoustic" amplifiers. They are good. I do think that any benefit Monique provides has more to do with the instantaneous nature and the dynamics, more than over-all tonal range. It also might have to do with the Monique lack of restraints on either the upper or lower limits.
I would like to imagine this has to do with those years I spent living in Athens. Αύριο ή αύριο
Hahaha! Thanks for the good laugh. I can use it.
Work that Monique input control. I'm telling you, it's the deep ****. Very powerful, I would guess that it about doubles the Monique's versatility.[/QUO
Yes. Everyone remembers correctly. I'm concerned about the doubling of the heater current. Monique was never intended for the octals that draw more than half an amp of filament current. She might be able to handle it short term, but I would not recommend a 6SN7 that draws 600 milliamps as a permanent replacement.Yes, better safe than sorry with electrical components! That said, I hereby volunteer my own Monique for testing 6SN7 compatibility.
By example, a 6SL7 only takes 300 milliamps.
You might want to connect with Myles Jay. Great guy. Easy to talk to. He is part of The Nile Project (I have tickets for Feb 18 at Stanford. Yay!) He is a very accomplished musician who comes from a Classical Bass perspective but has great experience and learning in many of the instruments of Northern Africa and the countries that surround the Eastern Mediterranean. (Close to Ireland?
There are "acoustic" amplifiers. They are good. I do think that any benefit Monique provides has more to do with the instantaneous nature and the dynamics, more than over-all tonal range. It also might have to do with the Monique lack of restraints on either the upper or lower limits.
I would like to imagine this has to do with those years I spent living in Athens. Αύριο ή αύριο
good idea Thanks, I might touch base with him......
OT but reading your post I just realized how weird it must seem to call a Bouzouki "Irish" and that the instrument has been repurposed for another countries traditional music... - most people just go..a what? Blame it on those wandering Irish hippies.
In short, fired up the M700 with Monique today and it crushed. Tried it both ways with the preamp maxed into the 700 and then the M700 maxed and I could tell very little difference unlike with the previous poweramps I have been using. M700 takes everything I could throw at her and didn't break a sweat. Smooth bottom and upper mids off the chain with no harsh highs at all. It really lets the HAZ pre on my Spectors shine. Now to sell the Mesa cabs and get a Dually and you can bury me with them.
- Dec 10, 2006
- 1,338
- 2,180
- Disclosures
- Owner and creator of Jule Amps: Monique and Simone and Bass Amps
Not wierd at all. The Fabulous M and I wandered the West of your fair land for several weeks, (long ago). There is much to hear.
- Dec 10, 2006
- 1,338
- 2,180
- Disclosures
- Owner and creator of Jule Amps: Monique and Simone and Bass Amps
"Crushing" is good, right? Remember, I saw Sputnik.
- Jan 7, 2008
- 2,196
- 224
- 39
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Olinto, La Bella, JuleAmps, Epifani
Hey all, been a minute! Ive been having some serious problems with my Minnie 800D recently and just wanted to see if anybody else has had similar issues. Intense overheating, sound cutting out when playing really low notes on the B string, and noticeable drops in headroom. Ive spoken to James Demeter already and he told me to send it to him, but im afraid its gonna cost me an arm and a leg since its conveniently past warranty. Anybody else go through this already? And if so, what did it cost?? Thanks!
That sucks, dude.
I haven't had any of the above issues, and I hope James takes care of you. A 1yr warranty is not a great confidence booster on a $1000 poweramp IMO.
I do have persistent and annoyingly loud hum when Minnie is dimed or even turned up past 2:00-3:00, but it is perfect when Monique is dimed and i use the Minnie to control volume (usually between 8:00-10:00). Not my ideal scenario, but it has been like this since I got it in 2013 and is apparently "normal". Beyond that, the fan is too loud when turned on in my studio (I turn it off unless on a gig). Other than the above, mine has performed well.
Hello Jule,
It was my pleasure. Thank you.
Not even I know how many tubes I have.
Tragic or comic? You decide. But I've been saying "several hundred" for a while now, and that's probably true. Since you think folks should know: what characterizes my vacuum tube collection is not the quantity, but the variety and the quality. Through research, vigilance, the kindness of a few colleagues, and some luck, I amassed a pretty good collection, and mostly on the cheap.
Thanks for confirming your toughening measures for the Monique.
Yesterday I rescued my old Precision Bass from storage. Tonight I set it up and played it for the first time in two years, almost to the day. I played it through the Monique. And it sure did sound good.
All the Best,
Snaxster
It was my pleasure. Thank you.
Not even I know how many tubes I have.
Tragic or comic? You decide. But I've been saying "several hundred" for a while now, and that's probably true. Since you think folks should know: what characterizes my vacuum tube collection is not the quantity, but the variety and the quality. Through research, vigilance, the kindness of a few colleagues, and some luck, I amassed a pretty good collection, and mostly on the cheap. Thanks for confirming your toughening measures for the Monique.
Yesterday I rescued my old Precision Bass from storage. Tonight I set it up and played it for the first time in two years, almost to the day. I played it through the Monique. And it sure did sound good.
All the Best,
Snaxster
