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Jule Amps Monique part 5

#1,503
I tend to 'ride' my sensitivity in the range of 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock.

In the 'before noon' range, moving counter-clockwise it gets progressively cleaner, uncompressed and more 'hi-fi'. More detail in your tone. It's closer to some of the Dem, Kern, etc. (although not as warm or 'soft' as the Kern). The overall feel is also a little less 'girthy' than you get past noon. To me, that first half of the Sensitivity knob's throw is 'tube preamp clean for the studio' Closer to a B-15 than to an SVT or Sunn, although never that similar to Fender style front ends.

Noon and beyond, you're in the territory of 'fooling the listener that this is a full tube amp'. It takes on a lot of the (non distorted) characteristics of the 'big boy' all tube classics. Girth, the compression characteristics, the 'weight' behind the notes, the rich harmonic content, and the really punchy attack in the mids. It's more than 'just gain' to the first stages. It may lose a little of the 3-dimensionality as you progressively turn it up in the UPPER-upper reaches of the control (at least it does to me).

I won't speak to the change in the tonal range with the control because I have a few stages of buffering beforehand (OBP-1 and HPF-3), and I'll leave that up to the passive guys.

I also use the 4db of extra boost with the control pulled out, Monique is a little sassier with it. I also proscribe to the idea that the line out control sounds better pushed hard too, with the caveat that mine is an early line out without a push/pull but after Jule did a bit of monkeying with driving it with the 12AU7.
 
#1,504
Thank you. Albeit that I have had my Monique for all of 20 minutes, your description closely corroborates my experience with it so far. Also, apart from a Demeter tube DI I owned and used for everything many years ago, I am unfamiliar with Demeter or Kern tube preamps. Otherwise, I am right with you. Excellent descriptions!

BurningSkies said:
In the 'before noon' range, moving counter-clockwise it gets progressively cleaner, uncompressed and more 'hi-fi'. More detail in your tone. It's closer to some of the Dem, Kern, etc. (although not as warm or 'soft' as the Kern). The overall feel is also a little less 'girthy' than you get past noon. To me, that first half of the Sensitivity knob's throw is 'tube preamp clean for the studio' Closer to a B-15 than to an SVT or Sunn, although never that similar to Fender style front ends.

Noon and beyond, you're in the territory of 'fooling the listener that this is a full tube amp'. It takes on a lot of the (non distorted) characteristics of the 'big boy' all tube classics. Girth, the compression characteristics, the 'weight' behind the notes, the rich harmonic content, and the really punchy attack in the mids. It's more than 'just gain' to the first stages. It may lose a little of the 3-dimensionality as you progressively turn it up in the UPPER-upper reaches of the control (at least it does to me).
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#1,506
Snaxster said:
Thank you. Albeit that I have had my Monique for all of 20 minutes, your description closely corroborates my experience with it so far. Also, apart from a Demeter tube DI I owned and used for everything many years ago, I am unfamiliar with Demeter or Kern tube preamps. Otherwise, I am right with you. Excellent descriptions!
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I feel like any of the Demeter stuff I've tried or heard leans heavily on the clean/pristine/'accurate' side. The Kern is an 'update' on the Fender style preamp, which goes from wide and modern and clean to a really beautiful, albeit soft tone. It 'sculpts' the note envelope in a very different way. In Monique never gets as 'pretty' as the Kern, but its a lot more fun a ride that gets your blood moving faster.
 
#1,507
Hello. Thank you for mentioning that. The notable difference from 6SL7 in 5691 is the heater. From the Radio Museum website:

"Dual triode, long-life variant of 6SL7GT. Heater current raised to 0.6A; heaters are series connected, to disable both sections in bridge circuits in case of a failure."

It seems that the same difference from 6SN7 is true in 5692, so I will cease using one in V2 of my Monique. Luckily, I just retrieved a mess of 6SL7 from storage. Good times ahead!

JBNeedsBeer said:
I know Jule recommended against using 5691 tubes, I'm not sure what he said regarding 6SN7's. A quick search didn't turn anything up on TB though.
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#1,508
JBNeedsBeer said:
I know Jule recommended against using 5691 tubes, I'm not sure what he said regarding 6SN7's. A quick search didn't turn anything up on TB though.
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Yep, I looked at them early on and he mentioned that the are not a good option. The first 1940's RCA Blackplate VT-229 I used in V1 sounded great but went bad quickly with some healthy gigging (NOS/MIB original when I got it) . The second RCA Blackplate I had (1950's) didn't sound as nice in the lows. I ended up with a Tung Sol brown base that doesn't do the same thing in the lows, but DOES have awesome mids and seems to be a bit higher in gain. I also tried a Sylvania VT-229, but didn't love it.

7508804672_c7f0576494_z.jpg
 
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#1,513
Thank you. Again: I advocate a conservative approach; better safe than sorry.

Also, as I disclaimed in my review here "I am not suggesting that anyone modify their Monique preamp in any way. If you break or diminish any equipment of yours by trying something I describe here, I am not responsible." In other words, don't try this at home, kids.

I think that when considering substituting non-specified components, the reckoning of the margin of safety depends on the circuit. With audio devices I own, sometimes there is a certain amount of informed experimentation I am willing to do. Usually that works out well for me, but I have a few fried pedals to show for it.

Luckily, though, I never fried a tube amp or preamp. Since I have had only success when substituting 12AU7 for 12AX7, 6S?7 for equivalent 12A?7, and even 6AQ5 for 6V6GT, I feel it worth trying with my Monique. I withdraw 569? from the list of potential substitutes because of Jule's advice not to use 5691.

Passinwind said:
6SN7 and 5692 both draw twice the filament current of 6SL7, not cool.
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#1,514
Appreciate the discussion. Wasn't aware of my double-post earlier - thought I'd deleted the second version, but am having difficulty with some of the functionality of the site when posting on my phone. To be clear, I haven't used the hotter/pulled out setting of the line out, but I *have* played with the sensitivity control both in and out quite a bit. Usually have it out, as it's alittle rougher/more detailed in the mids to my ear that way. I usually have the sensitivity dialed fairly low, as I want to retain my dynamic range.
 
#1,515
Snaxster said:
I withdraw 5692 from the list of potential substitutes because of Jule's advice not to use 5691.
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The relationship of 6SL7 to 5691 is not the same as 6SN7 to 5692. Google the datasheets if you don't believe me. Link Removed

5691, 5692, and 6SN7 all draw the same heater current at 600mA (6SL7 is 300mA), so I'm curious why you think 6SN7 is OK and the other two are not? 6SN7 is not equivalent in heater draw to 12AU7 either, BTW.

Often times it doesn't matter, as you've experienced, but in this case: http://www.talkbass.com/threads/jule-amps-monique.741469/page-37#post-12852257

It might be worth pinging Jule and clarifying whether he was discussing subbing out both 6SL7s or just one.
 
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#1,516
According to someone here I've been playing Monique for three years. Whatever,☺️ I buy the wisdom of the maker and use it how he suggests. If and when I've gigged Monique enough to speak with authority I might humbly suggest some tweak. I respect the giver for his life's experience and his living experience to design this beaut. I know it's enough for many of us to treat Monique as an instrument to bring the most music possible.

That being said, I've tube rolled some serious RCA black plate JAN 1944 tubes.
When I need state to state consistency, I go for the stock tubes.
 
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#1,517
My final answer:

I think 6SN7 is safe for me to try in this application since 1. 12AU7 is to 12AX7 as 6SN7 is to 6SL7, and 2. in similar applications I have alternated between all four of those types without damage and with audible success.

Passinwind said:
The relationship of 6SL7 to 5691 is not the same as 6SN7 to 5692. Google the datasheets if you don't believe me. Link Removed

5691, 5692, and 6SN7 all draw the same heater current at 600mA (6SL7 is 300mA), so I'm curious why you think 6SN7 is OK and the other two are not? 6SN7 is not equivalent in heater draw to 12AU7 either, BTW.

Often times it doesn't matter, as you've experienced, but in this case: http://www.talkbass.com/threads/jule-amps-monique.741469/page-37#post-12852257

It might be worth pinging Jule and clarifying whether he was discussing subbing out both 6SL7s or just one.
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#1,518
The 6SL7 is a high-mu twin triode in an octal based glass package. To my knowledge, there were not any metal shell versions made. Each triode section operates as a class-A amplifier. This tube has much higher mu than it's cousin, the 6SN7. It's factor is 70, whereas the 6SN7 is only 20, therefore these two tubes are not interchangeable. There is still a good population of hi-fi and musical instrument amps using this tube in the preamp stage out there, and these tubes are still available. The 6SL7 was never as popular as the 6SN7---due to the 6SN7's widespread use in television chassis design---so this tube does not turn up as often whenever vintage tubes are being sold. It is, in the proper circuit, a wonderful sounding tube, and audiophiles would do well to try the NOS vintage 6SL7 tubes before buying anything currently made today. This is off of Brent Jesse site.He is in the business to sell HIGH Priced vintage Tubes !!
 
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#1,519
foderaman said:
The 6SL7 is a high-mu twin triode in an octal based glass package. To my knowledge, there were not any metal shell versions made. Each triode section operates as a class-A amplifier. This tube has much higher mu than it's cousin, the 6SN7. It's factor is 70, whereas the 6SN7 is only 20, therefore these two tubes are not interchangeable. There is still a good population of hi-fi and musical instrument amps using this tube in the preamp stage out there, and these tubes are still available. The 6SL7 was never as popular as the 6SN7---due to the 6SN7's widespread use in television chassis design---so this tube does not turn up as often whenever vintage tubes are being sold. It is, in the proper circuit, a wonderful sounding tube, and audiophiles would do well to try the NOS vintage 6SL7 tubes before buying anything currently made today. This is off of Brent Jesse site.He is in the business to sell HIGH Priced vintage Tubes !!
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I've bought a number of tubes from him. The 5751 RCA blackplates I use in my Kern IP777 instead of 12AX7s came from him, as well as my current use Tung Sol 6SL7 and a GE I keep as a backup. He's a pretty straight shooter and has never tried to upsell me or devolve into audiophile hyperbole.
 

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