Making Female Singer Feel Safer

[MrLenny1]

Meet up where she wants to meet.

 

[MrLenny1]

Also ,a female singer can be a wonderful asset to a band and can also
be a nightmare. A lot of girls can sing but are not use to gigging which
we know is not all peaches & cream.
Good Luck.

 

[mybigjohnny]

Making women feel safer? They're already far, far safer than men in western society. The data of studies show that while women fear danger more, they are far less likely to be attacked, precisely because of Op and people like Op who worry about women's safety, people are the NORM for this, not the exception.

The Scientific Reason Why It's Normal For Men To Be Overprotective Of The Women They Love

http://westerncriminology.org/documents/WCR/v04n3/article_pdfs/scott.pdf

Crime is already far, far less prevalent than even 30 years ago and the numbers on all kinds of crime keep declining, but its much higher for men as victims of those crimes than women.

it seems like the safer we've become as a society, the more we must 'walk on eggshells' so as not to appear dangerous to women.

This isn't the congo, people. This isn't much of Africa, where there's every reason to fear being alone or with strange men (or women fyi as they are in rape gangs attacking men).

 

[buldog5151bass]

The more you make an issue of it, the more she will be worried. What, is she going to need a chaperone for every gig, rehearsal, band discussion...?

Certainly if she asks to bring someone to the audition, allow it. But they are in the band, treat them like everyone else. Same rules for her as for you regarding "guests".

 

[MtManiac]

Even though it’s 2018, men still make up the vast majority of musicians, and it isn’t because women don’t want to play or aren’t talented. Not all men are scumbags, obviously, even most of us are not. But when *every single woman* I’ve been in a relationship with over the course of my 48 years, ten years married and ten years divorced, and asked about it has had at least one story of rape, attempted rape, sexual assault, and every one being made uncomfortable regularly by “locker room talk” whatever that is, I think it’s perfectly reasonable and commendable for anyone to want to make an audition as accommodating as possible for someone who has experiences that *most men are unable to grasp*. This thread shows that most men are unable to grasp what it’s like being a woman in a space surrounded by and dominated by men. There’s no shame in that in and of itself - you are men, you have your own point of view in life. But if you don’t know an answer to the question though, it’s perfectly ok to be quiet and say nothing - but insisting on opinions where you feel a strong entitlement to an opinion but no basis of experience for one just adds to how difficult it is for women. I want to see more women bass players, drummers, singers, and guitar players playing in bands where everyone else is a man, or all women, or 60/40, whatever. More women playing. It’s good for everyone.

 

[MtManiac]

The bigger question is how to keep band safe from female allegations?

Easy - keep your hands to yourself.

 

[mybigjohnny]

Even though it’s 2018, men still make up the vast majority of musicians, and it isn’t because women don’t want to play or aren’t talented. Not all men are scumbags, obviously, even most of us are not. But when *every single woman* I’ve been in a relationship with over the course of my 48 years, ten years married and ten years divorced, and asked about it has had at least one story of rape, attempted rape, sexual assault, or even just being made uncomfortable by “locker room talk” whatever that is, I think it’s perfectly reasonable and commendable for anyone to want to make an audition as accommodating as possible for someone who has experiences that *most men are unable to grasp*. This thread shows that most men are unable to grasp what it’s like being a woman in a space surrounded by and dominated by men. There’s no shame in that in and of itself - you are men, you have your own point of view in life. But if you don’t know an answer to the question though, it’s perfectly ok to be quiet and say nothing - but insisting on opinions where you feel a strong entitlement to an opinion but no basis of experience for one just adds to how difficult it is for women. I want to see more women bass players, drummers, singers, and guitar players playing in bands where everyone else is a man, or all women, or 60/40, whatever. More women playing. It’s good for everyone.

And ive been sexually assaulted by women before. Groping etc.

At least one guy has such a story of a woman doing this, or being sexually harassing, that I know. So shall we play the whole "there's at least one story therefore its everywhere"?

 

[MtManiac]

Making women feel safer? They're already far, far safer than men in western society. The data of studies show that while women fear danger more, they are far less likely to be attacked, precisely because of Op and people like Op who worry about women's safety, people are the NORM for this, not the exception.

The Scientific Reason Why It's Normal For Men To Be Overprotective Of The Women They Love

http://westerncriminology.org/documents/WCR/v04n3/article_pdfs/scott.pdf

Crime is already far, far less prevalent than even 30 years ago and the numbers on all kinds of crime keep declining, but its much higher for men as victims of those crimes than women.

it seems like the safer we've become as a society, the more we must 'walk on eggshells' so as not to appear dangerous to women.

This isn't the congo, people. This isn't much of Africa, where there's every reason to fear being alone or with strange men (or women fyi as they are in rape gangs attacking men).

Any violent crime stats I’ve read show that across multiple years it’s roughly 50/50 men and women being victimized by violence, but it is overwhelmingly men who are committing the violence in all cases.

 

[2muchcoffeeman]

The bigger question is how to keep band safe from female allegations?

Treat her like a fellow human being rather than an object.

 

[MtManiac]

And ive been sexually assaulted by women before. Groping etc.

At least one guy has such a story of a woman doing this, or being sexually harassing, that I know. So shall we play the whole "there's at least one story therefore its everywhere"?

Is anybody accusing you? Clearly your experience hasn’t made you feel uncomfortable around women, but does that mean every woman has to feel the same way you do? You know everyone is entitled to their own experiences and feelings about things, right? And it doesn’t make them crazy if theirs don’t match yours?

 

[ToneMonkey]

A couple of years ago, I put out an ad for female vocalist. I got one serious response. She asked if it would be OK if a couple of her friends tagged along. They'd be quiet and sit as far away as possible.

My reaction was an emphatic yes. I want you to feel safe. We played in my office studio with the full band. Her friends ended up sitting at our kitchen table. She ended up working out really well. That band is no longer together, but we've stayed in touch. She's a quality person.

Even as a somewhat large man (6' 225), there are situations that make me uncomfortable. I've always sucked it up. But I can completely understand somebody wanting to feel safe. I personally will do anything in my power to facilitate that.

 

[hrodbert696]

To the OP, I don't think there's any need to take initiative to make a female auditioner feel safer. If she's interested in auditioning for a band, she has already bought into the idea that she'll be going to a new place and meeting new people to do so. It's enough to be aware of the issue and responsive to any requests she makes (e.g. meet in a public place, bring a friend along, etc.).

 

[Stranger Danger]

**EDIT**
This thread has actually done like a good compressor and squashed the transient before things started clipping...please continue the trend of progressing towards civil discussion and read all replies before posting on something you feel is inflammatory, the user may have apologized or addressed it already.


OK to give a little background, I just auditioned (and nailed it, beating out 4 other applicants) for a local grunge/alternative band. The drummer is sort of the band leader, he was in another group for 7 years and even got to open for Puddle of Mudd before. He's a level-headed guy and isn't ignorant to how things work, is the point I'm trying to get across.

So we're taking a beverage break after playing a few tunes and the BL was telling me he feels really strongly about getting a female vocalist. No complaints from me, I've actually wanted to try that in previous bands myself. He and the guitarist are very down-to-Earth kind of guys though, and while I wouldn't say naive, I would say they are good-natured people. As we're talking about the audition process, I brought up the point of whether or not a female vocalist would feel meeting with a bunch of strange guys from Craigslist all alone is a safe idea.

BL definitely took that concern as valid, but was coming up dry on ways to try and mitigate this possible issue. He suggested having his female neighbor come over and chill in the house too, but I am unsure how well that would work as getting a private rehearsal space (we're in his older brother's house at the moment) means that coming every week might not pan out for the neighbor. He'd also like a keyboard player that's female, but that could severely limit our options if that becomes a necessity.

Anybody gone through this same scenario and found something that worked? Obviously things can happen at any time and place, but I'd like to make sure we limit how uncomfortable things feel as much as possible.

Just let her know she can bring someone with her. Easy.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Just let her know she can bring someone with her. Easy.

Crossing threads, maybe she'll bring Chuck Norris.

 

[Stranger Danger]

Even though it’s 2018, men still make up the vast majority of musicians, and it isn’t because women don’t want to play or aren’t talented. Not all men are scumbags, obviously, even most of us are not. But when *every single woman* I’ve been in a relationship with over the course of my 48 years, ten years married and ten years divorced, and asked about it has had at least one story of rape, attempted rape, sexual assault, and every one being made uncomfortable regularly by “locker room talk” whatever that is, I think it’s perfectly reasonable and commendable for anyone to want to make an audition as accommodating as possible for someone who has experiences that *most men are unable to grasp*. This thread shows that most men are unable to grasp what it’s like being a woman in a space surrounded by and dominated by men. There’s no shame in that in and of itself - you are men, you have your own point of view in life. But if you don’t know an answer to the question though, it’s perfectly ok to be quiet and say nothing - but insisting on opinions where you feel a strong entitlement to an opinion but no basis of experience for one just adds to how difficult it is for women. I want to see more women bass players, drummers, singers, and guitar players playing in bands where everyone else is a man, or all women, or 60/40, whatever. More women playing. It’s good for everyone.

110% agree.

 

[gln1955]

To the OP, I don't think there's any need to take initiative to make a female auditioner feel safer. If she's interested in auditioning for a band, she has already bought into the idea that she'll be going to a new place and meeting new people to do so. It's enough to be aware of the issue and responsive to any requests she makes (e.g. meet in a public place, bring a friend along, etc.).

It's not a bad idea to be proactive. The OP can suggest that they meet publicly first or bring a friend, but not make a big deal about it. Some candidates might feel better doing it that way but don't want to risk asking. It simply sends the message that this is OK.

 

[hrodbert696]

The poster of this is banned but the content should be replied to...

Making women feel safer? They're already far, far safer than men in western society. The data of studies show that while women fear danger more, they are far less likely to be attacked, precisely because of Op and people like Op who worry about women's safety, people are the NORM for this, not the exception.

This claim is not borne out by the national Criminal Victimization Study. In 2016, women were about equally likely to be victims of violent crime - 20.8 per 1000 women vs. 21.4 per 1000 men. When you limit the numbers to "serious" violent crime (including sexual and aggravated assault, but not simple assault, basically) the rates are 7.5 women/1000 vs. 6.5 men/1000, which would make women about 15% more likely to suffer these types of crimes. The NCVS doesn't track murder because it's based on survivor interviews, so there may be more men killing each other than women. It does show that male victims are more likely to report crimes against them - roughly 44% vs. 40% violent crime, 60% vs. 43% serious violent crime - which probably has largely to do with sex crimes going unreported.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv16.pdf

EDIT: I looked in more detail at this study - http://westerncriminology.org/documents/WCR/v04n3/article_pdfs/scott.pdf - that had been linked. While the thesis of the study is that women are likely to fear victimization in a proportion that doesn't correlate to their actual experience of victimization, there are a couple of shortcomings in the study. One is that it seems to dismiss its own finding that a whopping 53% of respondents (all women) reported having experienced some type of violence, 8% of them in the last year. Given that, it's not so "irrational" that 60-75% of women report feeling afraid when alone at night in various settings.

The other is that it gives no consideration to social contact - it only asks if the women have themselves experienced violence, not if they know other women who have. If 8% of women experienced violence in the last year, and each of them has, say, ten friends, then something to the tune of 80% of women know someone who suffered violence in the last year (somewhat less due to overlapping, but you get the idea) and everyone knows someone who experienced it in their lifetime. The fear may not correlate to women's own individual victimization but probably correlates very well to the victimization of members of their social circle. Given that people form their expectations and values socially, it's not at all "irrational" for most women to fear the possibility of victimization.

 

[hrodbert696]

It's not a bad idea to be proactive. The OP can suggest that they meet publicly first or bring a friend, but not make a big deal about it. Some candidates might feel better doing it that way but don't want to risk asking. It simply sends the message that this is OK.

It's a judgment call. I'm just saying I don't think it's strictly necessary.

 

[Stranger Danger]

Making women feel safer? They're already far, far safer than men in western society. The data of studies show that while women fear danger more, they are far less likely to be attacked, precisely because of Op and people like Op who worry about women's safety, people are the NORM for this, not the exception.

The Scientific Reason Why It's Normal For Men To Be Overprotective Of The Women They Love

http://westerncriminology.org/documents/WCR/v04n3/article_pdfs/scott.pdf

Crime is already far, far less prevalent than even 30 years ago and the numbers on all kinds of crime keep declining, but its much higher for men as victims of those crimes than women.

it seems like the safer we've become as a society, the more we must 'walk on eggshells' so as not to appear dangerous to women.

This isn't the congo, people. This isn't much of Africa, where there's every reason to fear being alone or with strange men (or women fyi as they are in rape gangs attacking men).

This is undoubtedly the worst post in the history of talkbass. I can't even begin to fathom what was going through your mind when you posted this. I feel sorry for anyone in your path. WOW!

 

[lokikallas]

Auditions held at an hourly paid rehearsal studio (all of the ones near me have CCTV) is appropriate.