In my mind, neck dive is a non-starter. If the bass doesn't sit at 45-degree angle on a strap without me touching it, then I don't want it.
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Neck Dive (Poll)
- Thread starter fig
- Start date
A balanced bass has its center of gravity midway between the strap attachment points. You can tolerate some shift left or right, assuming some friction in the strap. I designed products for a living, and I could set rational criteria for how much tolerance to allow within a day’s experiments if that were my job. This is very basic stuff.
Cars don't tip over as often as they did decades ago, because designers have criteria set for the location of the center of gravity of a product made up of a couple thousand parts - they can calculate if it's OK before they build a single prototype. Here we have a dozen or so parts to consider - this is not difficult stuff.
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Good. More Thunderbirds for the rest of us.
How is it a "rip-off?" No one is forcing you to buy an instrument that you find uncomfortable.
While your dislike of neck dive makes sense, keep in mind that engineering is all about trade-offs.
If you want a bass with a standard headstock, that has a stable neck and a light body, you're going to run the risk of neck dive. The risk increases when customers want large tuning machines, relatively large head stocks, more than 4 strings, or refuse to buy headless basses.
In addition, wood varies in its density, which is one reason why a Jazz-style 5 string can weigh anywhere between 8 and 11 pounds. Let's say I am a product manager, and my job is to make 10,000 Jazz-style basses at the $1,000 price point. If I try to source 10,000 body blanks that all weigh 8 lbs and the necks weigh 2.5 lbs, that's going to drive up my costs. Plus, the overall weight may be too heavy for some customers.
By the way, the inconveniences of electric basses are a pittance compared to dealing with an upright bass. Consider yourself lucky if neck dive is your bête noir.
Uhhh.... Yeah, that's kind of how consumerism works.
If you don't like basses with neck dive, don't buy basses with neck dive. It's pretty clear, though, that this is a low priority issue for most bassists. If that wasn't the case, we'd all be using headless instruments, and no one would buy a Thumb.
Uhhhh.... Wha?
I am not particularly bothered with a little bit of neck dive, especially if I can easily manage it. Is my opinion somehow not valid, because other people clicked a box saying that "I don't like neck dive?"
If you don't like basses with neck dive, and can't be bothered to work around it, that's your prerogative. Beyond that, what is it that you think will happen here?
My experience is with the right strap neck dive is practically non existent. One thing however, my neck is normally held almost parallel to the ground. I can understand that those that play with the head stock above their head and or the butt end strap button is halfway down their thigh might have more of a problem. Basses played: Rickenbacker 4001, various Fender basses. Gibson EB3, EB2 and Firebird, Warwick Corvette to name a few.
Since I'm a "booty bass player" (mostly play sitting down), neck dive is not any issue. I actually have only one bass out of many with neck dive. A Jack Casady Epiphone and it's not bad.
Booty Bass
Booty Bass
A few years ago I asked the question why so much angst associated with neck dive? I asked this because I had never experienced the phenomenon, and I got dogpiled by those who had. Fast forward a few more years and I was forced to take up a short scale bass or give up the instrument due to issues with my left arm and hand. I chose a Mustang P/J and for the first time in all my years of playing bass I experienced neck dive. It was not the short neck as I'd had a short scale Epiphone hollow body many years ago and never had any issues with that. I have yet to dig deeper into the cause with my Mustang as I mostly play it sitting down and can compensate OK when standing, but I now know what it's all about.
That said, I'm still wondering what the big deal is. So far all I've had to do was add a slight bit of up force from my left elbow forward. I have yet to play four forty five minute sets with the Mustang, but I've played an easy hour standing with no problems except to remember to keep that bit of extra tension in my left arm.
The short scale was a make or break situation when I took it up. I had to jettison a lifetime of covering four frets with my left hand and relearn to play with only three fingers on my left hand. It was doubtful at first as I kept trying to return to the four finger approach I had burned so deeply into my brain. It took a few years but I'm finally feeling like the light at the end of the tunnel is not a freight train bearing down on me, and have been dreaming about what would make a good short scale for me as I contemplate building something in the coming year. My current Mustng is just too sweet to hack up but I'm sure I could move my rear strap button a little further up and solve my neck dive issue, but I want a side jack and a VVT so I'm looking at options that would make that possible without hacking up my Mustang. As a jazz bass fanatic, I'm thinking I'll reach out to Warmoth to see if they might cut a short scale neck pocket in one of their dinky J bodies for me.
That said, I'm still wondering what the big deal is. So far all I've had to do was add a slight bit of up force from my left elbow forward. I have yet to play four forty five minute sets with the Mustang, but I've played an easy hour standing with no problems except to remember to keep that bit of extra tension in my left arm.
The short scale was a make or break situation when I took it up. I had to jettison a lifetime of covering four frets with my left hand and relearn to play with only three fingers on my left hand. It was doubtful at first as I kept trying to return to the four finger approach I had burned so deeply into my brain. It took a few years but I'm finally feeling like the light at the end of the tunnel is not a freight train bearing down on me, and have been dreaming about what would make a good short scale for me as I contemplate building something in the coming year. My current Mustng is just too sweet to hack up but I'm sure I could move my rear strap button a little further up and solve my neck dive issue, but I want a side jack and a VVT so I'm looking at options that would make that possible without hacking up my Mustang. As a jazz bass fanatic, I'm thinking I'll reach out to Warmoth to see if they might cut a short scale neck pocket in one of their dinky J bodies for me.
Thank you for the answer. I still don’t think I would notice the lack of balance unless I went and measured said distance, marked off the halfway point and constructed a perch to put the bass on for observation.
Since I'm a "booty bass player" (mostly play sitting down), neck dive is not any issue. I actually have only one bass out of many with neck dive. A Jack Casady Epiphone and it's not bad.
Booty Bass
That’s just hilariously bad
How many do this? I’ve never had the experience of the thing just taking a walk on its own after I’ve put it on my shoulder.
Supporting the weight of the neck adds forearm/wrist muscle tension.
No matter how slight.
Fretting a bass should be as effortless as possible.
You really should "float"while fretting.
In a playing position,wiggle your fretting hand fingers without anything.
Now wiggle them while holding a 2 lb dumbbell.
That's the difference.
Many have unknowingly(or knowingly) compensated for years by pushing down with the plucking arm and lifting with the fretting.
And don't know it until they play a bass that doesn't dive and are relieved at the relative ease of playing.
It's Llike running with a weight on your back for years and then having it removed.
Tune TWB63OB has a little dive,but the Comfort Strapp takes it away.
This bass is 10.6lbs
Ibanez BTB676.
This bass is 11 lbs
No neck dive at all because the upper horn reaches the twelfth fret.
A simple solution that seems to be lost on many makers
My N/S Stick doesn't dive.
Well....because........
When seated,I have no problems either.
As I use classical position.
Between my legs and against my chest.
And with a strap.
Always.
No matter how slight.
Fretting a bass should be as effortless as possible.
You really should "float"while fretting.
In a playing position,wiggle your fretting hand fingers without anything.
Now wiggle them while holding a 2 lb dumbbell.
That's the difference.
Many have unknowingly(or knowingly) compensated for years by pushing down with the plucking arm and lifting with the fretting.
And don't know it until they play a bass that doesn't dive and are relieved at the relative ease of playing.
It's Llike running with a weight on your back for years and then having it removed.
Tune TWB63OB has a little dive,but the Comfort Strapp takes it away.
This bass is 10.6lbs
Ibanez BTB676.
This bass is 11 lbs
No neck dive at all because the upper horn reaches the twelfth fret.
A simple solution that seems to be lost on many makers
My N/S Stick doesn't dive.
Well....because........
When seated,I have no problems either.
As I use classical position.
Between my legs and against my chest.
And with a strap.
Always.
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The only exceptions on neck-dive that I'll make are for hollow or acoustic instruments, which are usually so light that it's not an issue at all. Otherwise, no thanks.
My theory is that the SKB body has a shorter upper horn. I probably wouldn’t have had problems with their Century body style.
Lots of them. But the variable is the player. Because we are all shaped different, use different straps and hang the bass at different heights, they will balance differently on different people.
So, I also had an SKB that was a great bass but let it go for neck dive. Ironically, I have a Century 5 that should be arriving today, so I am hopeful that you are correct.
Smooth_bass88
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- Oct 31, 2006
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My Japanese Fender 57 bass has annoying neck dive. I use a specific strap to balance things out. My Laklands (us and Skyline) have ZERO neck dive. I’d rather have a slightly heavier bass with no neck dive than a super light one with it.
