NFL Off Season

[cheezewiz]

My draft predictions don't normally go along with the pundits, but I'm sorry to say, they do this time.

I predict

#1 Houston R Bush
#2 NO (IF they don't trade...and I think it is MORE likely they trade
to someone who wants Leinart) D Ferguson
#3 Tennesee Leinart
#4 Jets M Williams (I'd LOVE to see him drop to 5, but it won't
happen)
#5 Packers AJ Hawk (I'd love to see them take V Davis instead,
but I think Hawk will be a player, so I wont
bitch too hard.
#6 Niners V Davis
#7 Raiders V Young
#8 Bills H Ngata
#9 Lions M Huff
#10 Cards E Sims

 

[Sundogue]

My draft predictions don't normally go along with the pundits, but I'm sorry to say, they do this time.

I predict

#1 Houston R Bush
#2 NO (IF they don't trade...and I think it is MORE likely they trade
to someone who wants Leinart) D Ferguson
#3 Tennesee Leinart
#4 Jets M Williams (I'd LOVE to see him drop to 5, but it won't
happen)
#5 Packers AJ Hawk (I'd love to see them take V Davis instead,
but I think Hawk will be a player, so I wont
bitch too hard.
#6 Niners V Davis
#7 Raiders V Young
#8 Bills H Ngata
#9 Lions M Huff
#10 Cards E Sims

Yeah, Davis does look intriguing. He seems like the kind of player that could make any QB look good. And being a TE that can stretch the field, he'd be a great pickup.

But Williams or Hawk would be taking one of the best players available AND addressing a real need at the same time, so they seem like safe picks.

Do you think the Pack could draft Culter at no. 5? He seems to be fashioned in the Favre mold...a gunslinger with a cannon arm.

 

[MJ5150]

I hope Vince Young goes to Tennessee. Not because of the McNair being black too thing, only because they will be a good team quicker than the other teams around them in the draft.

Plus....I secretly cheer for the Oilers/Titans when my dad isn't watching me.

-Mike

 

[wolfs]

I hear ya. I like watching the NFC North fans argue all the time. None of them are any good anymore, so they just argue about who sucks less.

These are but a few facts about the NFC Norris Division:

-There is no theory of evolution, just a list of creatures the NFC Norris Division allows to live.

-The NFC Norris Division has two speeds: Walk and Kill.

-The NFC Norris Division does not own a stove, oven, or microwave, because revenge is a dish best served cold.

-The NFC Norris Division doesn't read books. It stares them down until it gets the information it wants.

-The NFC Norris Division once kicked a horse in the chin. Its decendants are known today as Giraffes.

-The square root of The NFC Norris Division is pain. Do not try to square The NFC Norris Division, the result is death.

-The NFC Norris Division was once in a knife fight, and the knife lost.

-They say curiosity killed the cat. This is false. The NFC Norris Division killed the cat. Every single one of them.

-The NFC Norris Division does not wear a condom. Because there is no such thing as protection from the NFC Norris Division.

-The NFC Norris Division puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter"...

 

[cheezewiz]

Yeah, Davis does look intriguing. He seems like the kind of player that could make any QB look good. And being a TE that can stretch the field, he'd be a great pickup.

But Williams or Hawk would be taking one of the best players available AND addressing a real need at the same time, so they seem like safe picks.

Do you think the Pack could draft Culter at no. 5? He seems to be fashioned in the Favre mold...a gunslinger with a cannon arm.

I don't think the Pack will take Cutler, if for no other reason than it will make Polar Bear Thompson look bad by admitting he screwed up on the Rodgers pick last year. I think the Packers would jump for joy and grab Williams if he was there, but I'm not thinking there is ANY WAY he'll be around at pick #5. I'm guessing it's going to be Hawk. Another reason they won't take Davis is that the just re signed Bubba to a new contract last year. Bubba is solid, but he's not a field stretcher. I think Davis would bring the days of Chewie/Jackson back.

 

[Sundogue]

I don't think the Pack will take Cutler, if for no other reason than it will make Polar Bear Thompson look bad by admitting he screwed up on the Rodgers pick last year. I think the Packers would jump for joy and grab Williams if he was there, but I'm not thinking there is ANY WAY he'll be around at pick #5. I'm guessing it's going to be Hawk. Another reason they won't take Davis is that the just re signed Bubba to a new contract last year. Bubba is solid, but he's not a field stretcher. I think Davis would bring the days of Chewie/Jackson back.

If Thompson was a good GM (and the jury is still out on that), he'd go for what's best for the Packers, not just cover up mistakes. It's still way too early to know if Rogers is it, but Cutler reminds me of Favre...and we all know what a mistake it was to think Favre's gunslinger style wouldn't work.

It couldn't hurt to have two first round QB's battling for the starting job. It would also give the Pack some trade bait later on.

I'd love it if they took Cutler...but of course, if Williams is still there (and I agree, that's very doubtful), THAT would be the best pick.

Bubba is a solid TE, but nothing else. With so many teams playing Cover 2, a TE that can stretch the field like a WR (and Davis can do that) would be a huge addition.

Hawk looks like the pick for the Pack, but it wouldn't surprise me if they took someone altogether different from what everyone thinks. The Pack has a lot of needs, so a pick at almost any position will help.

 

[jive1]

I doubt they'd take Cutler either. It's basically saying that Rogers is a bust.

I'm wondering if they might take Ferguson if he drops, or take a gamble on Winston or Justice. Drafting someone like that just might make Favre consider playing another year.

On the other hand, Williams could help the other side of line and Hawk would help out a LB corps that could use another playmaker. Either of those could help the Pack. Maybe a stretch or trade down for Huff. The backfield could use another playmaker, and they've already invested picks in LBs the last couple of years.

 

[Sundogue]

I doubt they'd take Cutler either. It's basically saying that Rogers is a bust.

I'm wondering if they might take Ferguson if he drops, or take a gamble on Winston or Justice. Drafting someone like that just might make Favre consider playing another year.

On the other hand, Williams could help the other side of line and Hawk would help out a LB corps that could use another playmaker. Either of those could help the Pack. Maybe a stretch or trade down for Huff. The backfield could use another playmaker, and they've already invested picks in LBs the last couple of years.

No one knows if Rogers is a bust because he hasn't had the opportunity to really show what he can do (and you can't count the games he actually played...no rookie would have done anything in those scenarios). Personally, I don't think taking Cutler is any indication of how they feel about Rogers. You have to get the best QB you can. There aren't many teams that won a SB with an average QB...aside from the few that did so with an extremely dominating defense.

I sure hope they don't take Ferguson. That would be a huge waste of a top pick. They already have two of the best OT's in the game. They don't need outstanding Guards...just ones that can at least hold their own, especially now that they're installing a new blocking scheme. What are they gonna do, move Tauscher or Clifton to make room for Ferguson? The Pack have twice gone down that "drafting a sure fire O-lineman in the first round" road...and got burned both times.

While a lot of people think the Pack's line was the problem, it was really because of inadequate backup RB's and WR's that couldn't get open that made the line look a whole lot worse than it really was.

The only Packer LB draft choice of any significance was Barnett (and he was a great pick). They still need two LB's to compliment him.

I think they should take, in order of my preference (if still available)...

Williams
Cutler
Hawk
Davis

But that's me and I'm not the GM, so it'll be interesting.

 

[jive1]

While a lot of people think the Pack's line was the problem, it was really because of inadequate backup RB's and WR's that couldn't get open that made the line look a whole lot worse than it really was.

That's a good point. Not so much the WRs, because Favre has managed to make subpar WRs into productive players ala Bill Schroeder.

But many of the times Favre was getting obliterated or hurrying throws is because the RB wasn't picking up the blitz. They didn't have a back that did pass blocking well.

 

[wolfs]

But, Papa Bear Halas was the guy who invented professional football. Thank him for our beloved Sunday ritual.

P'shaw! Everyone knows that Jim Thorpe came down from heaven and commanded Knute Rockne and the Four Horseman to make the Midwest a flat prairie so other players could have a level playing field while trying to tackle Red Grange and Don Hutson... that, my friend, is the true history of football...

 

[wolfs]

If Thompson was a good GM (and the jury is still out on that), he'd go for what's best for the Packers, not just cover up mistakes.

That's a good point... but, about the possibility of drafting a QB issue, unless I'm wrong, isn't Thompson responsible for drafting Seneca Wallace at the Seahawks? I think he would be looking for an atheltic value pick for QB (to push Rodgers for playing time and to have a better contingency plan if Favre doesn't come back beyond Tom Arth)... I was thinking that Thompson might be looking to get a guy like Michael Robinson or Reggie McNeal... you could get a backup QB and a situation receiver at the same time.

It seems like the Rodgers pick last year was a question of value... if Hawk or Mario's still on the board, I don't know if Cutler or Leinart has the value to signifanctly offset an instant defensive starter and possible star...

Oh, and while I think Davis would be a good choice, a top LB or DE seems to make more of an impact overall. Though every young QB should have a good TE (I'm not sure if Bubba qualifies) as a target to help them stretch the field and get them out of tough reads... I hope that the Pack looks for a good TE prospect further down that they can develop since they do already have a decent one.

 

[Sundogue]

That's a good point... but, about the possibility of drafting a QB issue, unless I'm wrong, isn't Thompson responsible for drafting Seneca Wallace at the Seahawks? I think he would be looking for an atheltic value pick for QB (to push Rodgers for playing time and to have a better contingency plan if Favre doesn't come back beyond Tom Arth)... I was thinking that Thompson might be looking to get a guy like Michael Robinson or Reggie McNeal... you could get a backup QB and a situation receiver at the same time.

It seems like the Rodgers pick last year was a question of value... if Hawk or Mario's still on the board, I don't know if Cutler or Leinart has the value to signifanctly offset an instant defensive starter and possible star...

Oh, and while I think Davis would be a good choice, a top LB or DE seems to make more of an impact overall. Though every young QB should have a good TE (I'm not sure if Bubba qualifies) as a target to help them stretch the field and get them out of tough reads... I hope that the Pack looks for a good TE prospect further down that they can develop since they do already have a decent one.

There was an interesting article by Journal/Sentinal sports writer Cliff Christl, where he showed how many teams that won a Super Bowl without a top notch QB. Is Rodgers a top notch QB? No one knows yet. But after Favre leaves, it may be a very long time before they find another one. Most in the NFL build championship teams around either a QB or Defense (though not exclusively).

A team with a killer defense can get by with a lesser QB, because let's face it, with a killer D, you don't need to score a lot of points to win. But if only have an average defense, you better have a QB that can deliver the goods to keep up with the scoring.

Granted, a QB does not do it alone, but without one you better have one helluva defense to offset that. A great QB can do more damage quickly than a great RB.

Which is why I think Cutler may worthwhile to take. No matter, whether Cutler or Rodgers ends up being THE guy, the other guy could get us something in a trade and the one that stays could be someone to build a team around.

Just thinkin' out loud.

 

[wolfs]

It couldn't hurt to have two first round QB's battling for the starting job. It would also give the Pack some trade bait later on.

I think it could hurt... whichever QB loses out the starting job loses trade value in a big way, look at what former 1st round pick Joey Harrington is getting in trade value out of Detroit? Lions want a 4th round pick but the Dolphins want to give a 6th? So a tainted 1st rounder becomes essentially a 5th round pick. That's an extreme example, but hopefully you catch my drift.

If it's a business decision (and, frankly, it was a business decision to let Rivera and Wahle go last year, lamentable as it was) I think you potentially sacrifice too much value by drafting a QB again in the 1st round with so many other good to possibly great players available.

 

[wolfs]

There was an interesting article by Journal/Sentinal sports writer Cliff Christl, where he showed how many teams that won a Super Bowl without a top notch QB. Is Rodgers a top notch QB? No one knows yet. But after Favre leaves, it may be a very long time before they find another one. Most in the NFL build championship teams around either a QB or Defense (though not exclusively).

A team with a killer defense can get by with a lesser QB, because let's face it, with a killer D, you don't need to score a lot of points to win. But if only have an average defense, you better have a QB that can deliver the goods to keep up with the scoring.

Granted, a QB does not do it alone, but without one you better have one helluva defense to offset that. A great QB can do more damage quickly than a great RB.

Which is why I think Cutler may worthwhile to take. No matter, whether Cutler or Rodgers ends up being THE guy, the other guy could get us something in a trade and the one that stays could be someone to build a team around.

Just thinkin' out loud.

I totally agree with most of this... I would say, however, that you need an above average QB to win championships (except in extreme examples: Trent Dilfer, I'm looking at you). Barry Sanders was one of the best RBs of all time, how many SB rings does he wear?

Kurt Warner is a good QB, not great but good, and he's got his ring. And that Rams team didn't have much in the way of defense (it wasn't horrible, it just wasn't very good).

I know great QB talent doesn't come down the pike all the time... but I'm just not sure that Cutler is a truly great QB talent. I would say that Vince Young is, I would hesitate about Leinart definitely... Leinart and Cutler both have the potential to be good QBs. (Watch, the Titans will draft Leinart, he'll start this year, be the rookie of the year, and lead them to Super Bowl XLIII.)

 

[Sundogue]

I think it could hurt... whichever QB loses out the starting job loses trade value in a big way, look at what former 1st round pick Joey Harrington is getting in trade value out of Detroit? Lions want a 4th round pick but the Dolphins want to give a 6th? So a tainted 1st rounder becomes essentially a 5th round pick. That's an extreme example, but hopefully you catch my drift.

If it's a business decision (and, frankly, it was a business decision to let Rivera and Wahle go last year, lamentable as it was) I think you potentially sacrifice too much value by drafting a QB again in the 1st round with so many other good to possibly great players available.

I think that's a valid point. But, Harrington proved he couldn't do it (at least in Detroit...where all players go to die), whereas Rodgers hasn't made a case for himself yet.

I agree that it may be a wasted pick (either this year's draft...or last year's by taking Rodgers). But, any team that obtains a "franchise" QB can build a contender rather quickly...much moreso than a team without a top flite QB. Not every top flite QB comes in the first round...look no further than Favre himself, or Brady. But just look at what kind of impact a player like that has on a team.

A team that gets a QB like that can get to championship level by surrounding him with solid, even if unspectacular, players...again look at the Patriots.

That's not to say Cutler is it. But I think Cutler's got way more potential to be great than the other ones in the draft.

Even if they don't take chance on Cutler...they could do a whole lot worse than drafting either Hawk, Williams or Davis. Any one of them would have an impact immediately. It's a good position to be in.

 

[Sundogue]

I know great QB talent doesn't come down the pike all the time... but I'm just not sure that Cutler is a truly great QB talent. I would say that Vince Young is, I would hesitate about Leinart definitely... Leinart and Cutler both have the potential to be good QBs. (Watch, the Titans will draft Leinart, he'll start this year, be the rookie of the year, and lead them to Super Bowl XLIII.)

I think Cutler has more of the QB "it" factor than Young. Young's got his own style to be sure, but it seems to be more of a Vick clone (if not better)...and I don't see that as NFL caliber QB material. Plus Young didn't play much of a pro set, and hardly ever under center.

You look at the the "running QB's"...none made it to a Super Bowl. A mobile QB is a good thing, but in the NFL, a QB that is also a RB hasn't really been equated with success at that position.

Cutler has that intangible quality you don't often see. I see a young Favre in him. I'm not saying we should take him because I want a Favre clone. But there is something about a QB that has supreme confidence in his arm. Not many QB can thread tight coverage like Favre in his prime could. Most DB's would agree with that.

 

[wolfs]

Even if they don't take chance on Cutler...they could do a whole lot worse than drafting either Hawk, Williams or Davis. Any one of them would have an impact immediately. It's a good position to be in.

+1... I'm pulling for Hawk (if Williams isn't available) but i wouldn't cry about Davis either... hell, they should line Davis up as a wideout if they get him. Christ, a TE that runs a 4.4 and that size... you could have a monster version of Michael Irvin, a monster himself for a WR.

 

[Sundogue]

+1... I'm pulling for Hawk (if Williams isn't available) but i wouldn't cry about Davis either... hell, they should line Davis up as a wideout if they get him. Christ, a TE that runs a 4.4 and that size... you could have a monster version of Michael Irvin, a monster himself for a WR.

Yeah, he reminds me of the Sharpe brothers. Can you imagine trying to put a lick on either Shannon or Sterling running full speed?

Davis ain't no Chatman. Geez, to run that fast at that size??? What a load!!!

They could use him at TE or WR depending on the situation. No matter who is at QB, he'd make a difference to be sure.

 

[wolfs]

You look at the the "running QB's"...none made it to a Super Bowl. A mobile QB is a good thing, but in the NFL, a QB that is also a RB hasn't really been equated with success at that position.

I disagree with that... Steve Young was a big, mobile QB with a strong arm that liked to tuck it down and run and he won a championship, two league MVP awards, and made it deep in the playoffs many times.

One of the things that first attracted Ron Wolf to Brett Favre was his ability to win the big game, especially the upset he orchestrated against Alabama at So Miss. After the last Rose Bowl, Vince Young seems to have that same talent for making things happen. But I see your overall point about Cutler.

 

[Sundogue]

I disagree with that... Steve Young was a big, mobile QB with a strong arm that liked to tuck it down and run and he won a championship, two league MVP awards, and made it deep in the playoffs many times.

One of the things that first attracted Ron Wolf to Brett Favre was his ability to win the big game, especially the upset he orchestrated against Alabama at So Miss. After the last Rose Bowl, Vince Young seems to have that same talent for making things happen. But I see your overall point about Cutler.

I don't think anyone would confuse Young with a RB. He'd be more of a scrambler that ran when it was a last option. I'm thinking of guys like Culpepper, Vick, McNabb, et al. You know, the QB's that double as RB's.

While they do create headaches for opposing defenses, they often create just as many problems for their own offenses.

Young makes things happen for sure. I don't really think he's a pro style QB though. I think he's more in the Vick mold. In other words...a QB/RB.

I'd take Cutler over Leinhart or Young anytime. Just a hunch, but I think in the near future, he'll be the one others wished they'd picked.