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Pre/Power setups that KILL!!!

What's your poison?

  • Pre/Power setups ROCK!

    Votes: 181 69.9%

  • Head for me, thanks!

    Votes: 50 19.3%

  • I'll take my combos, any day...

    Votes: 11 4.2%

  • I'll plug into a carrot and rock the house!!

    Votes: 17 6.6%
  • Total voters
    259
#61
Originally posted by GooseYArd


Without knowing the output voltage of your pickup, it's hard to say why that might be. I'm assuming that you tried it with the input attenuation on the amp turned all the way up (down?), if not, that'll probably do it, if your preamp can exceed the input sensitivity of the amp. I'm not an electrical engineer, so I could be oblivious to the effect of the amps input impedance on the instruments output. It's pretty precise work and hard to do with your ears, especially if you're worried about damaging your speakers and err on the side of caution by using the amps attenuator.

Since the power amp is not going to give you any indication that it is getting close to clipping (it's just either clipping or not clipping), then without knowing the nominal outlevel of the pickups/preamp, its difficult without a meter or an oscilloscope to see how close to clipping it is and to get your gains balanced. Car audio guys are geniuses at this and have all that junk at their disposal.

Doing it this way probably seems like an academic excercise to most people, but its pretty cool that the power amplifiers that many of us use are actually precision instruments who's behavior can be predicted very accurately as long as all the quantities are known. Jeez I'm rambling :)
Click to expand...

Yes, I had the volume control on the power amp maxed out when I plugged my bass in direct. The PLX's have indicator lights for "Signal", "-20db", "-10db", and "Clip" levels. I had to hit the stings pretty hard to get the -20db indicator to light up (with my bass fully cranked).

[I probably need to talk to Bob Lee (QSC) to make sure my amp is doing what it should be doing with that type of input level.]
 
#62
Originally posted by DEVILMAN
biker4him

Are you kidding me or what!!! You tune your Roscoe to "A" & your Accugroove puts up with it!! Give me a break!!! Either you have a .080 B string or don't know what low end really is.

I had one & it couldn't deal with what I gave it through 1100w of QSC & Kern or Eden pre's! That's why I sold it & tried a 6x10 Berg & an AcmeB4 which both were better but STILL didn't cut it! The Eden XLT 4x10 had more solid low end!?!

Now before all you weirdo's & 10" lovers gang up on me, tell me what your bands style music is & what gear you use. I'm a VERY extreme player, so when a company tells me what their cab is allegedly rated at & "I" try it unbiased, I have every right & "on hands" experience to speak about it.

The only cab I tried lately that worked "good" was an Epifani 6x10(Joker was my witness)& I plan on one very shortly.

Sorry to sound like a d**k but these are my findings after 20yrs of playing & countless lost $$$ on equipment.

Now, I wait for the Accugroove 21" to abuse & hopefully replace my 2x18 Eminence loaded cab...

later,
~S~

PS: If you want my bands site, it's www.Evoken.com. You can link to my Mp3's from there...
Click to expand...


I just wanted to mention that the Berg 610 is not a cab built for extreme volume. It’s a vintage Cab. Its wasn't built to be a high power cab like the HT series. That's why it’s also quite a bit cheaper then the HT series. If your wanting something in the Berg line for what it sounds like your doing you need to check out a 322 & 115 or 2 322 cabs for extreme volume, but your 1100 amp isn't enough power.

As for the Epifani 610, it is a monster cab and built like what you seem to be looking for. I just sold one and can say from experience it’s a Very powerful cab, but again your 1100-watt amp won't do it justice.

Make sure you have enough power for the volume your trying to run. The cabs might be farting for lack of power not because they won't handle what you’re wanting out of them.

I'm always happy to answer questions or atleast give my experience and opinion if you feel like e-mailing or calling.
 
#63
Brian,

I ran the cabs through a Carvin DCM 2000 bridged & my QSC 3402 bridged, no difference. I previously should have mentioned that but I figured I'd leave some room for some "flaming"!!! LOL!!!

I also had a Berg 322, VERY nice, but, not my bag. I like the Epi stuff a bit better for my playing.

As far as these "extreme" players go here, I can honestly say I'm referring to the "brown" area of Hz first(for the comparison of brutal lows) & overall sound & clarity with that.

When I play my 4 stringer, the cabs mentioned are all phenomonal. BUT, on a 5/6/7/? stringer(especially dropped in tuning) the cabs spoken of are not designed for that 1% of abuse from people like me who WANT you to s**t your pants at a live venue!

Yes, I'm nuts, but that's what lifes about in "extreme" playing(on the sub side) & I've seen guys use rattier gear that's unimaginable & get great sound out of it(due to the complete rat package) BUT, were limited to just that 1 sound.

My ONLY reason for this response is due to the fact of people gauging the "alleged" capable lows of certain cabs mentioned.

So, in summary, yes, the cabs mentioned will do what 99% of the population will be happy with but break away from that & you're in another world altogether. If you tried to push these cabs with a DBX sub synth they would expire quickly. My 2x18's beg for abuse & sound great doing it, but they're a b***h to haul! Oh well...


later,
~S~


Note: I use my 2x18's for my clean channel through my Kern & DBX + I use 2x15's with an Eden Navigator for my dirty channel(dist, ch, wah, delay) via a splitter box
 
#64
Originally posted by DEVILMAN
biker4him

Are you kidding me or what!!! You tune your Roscoe to "A" & your Accugroove puts up with it!! Give me a break!!! Either you have a .080 B string or don't know what low end really is.

I had one & it couldn't deal with what I gave it through 1100w of QSC & Kern or Eden pre's! That's why I sold it & tried a 6x10 Berg & an AcmeB4 which both were better but STILL didn't cut it! The Eden XLT 4x10 had more solid low end!?!

Now before all you weirdo's & 10" lovers gang up on me, tell me what your bands style music is & what gear you use. I'm a VERY extreme player, so when a company tells me what their cab is allegedly rated at & "I" try it unbiased, I have every right & "on hands" experience to speak about it.

The only cab I tried lately that worked "good" was an Epifani 6x10(Joker was my witness)& I plan on one very shortly.

Sorry to sound like a d**k but these are my findings after 20yrs of playing & countless lost $$$ on equipment.

Now, I wait for the Accugroove 21" to abuse & hopefully replace my 2x18 Eminence loaded cab...

later,
~S~

PS: If you want my bands site, it's www.Evoken.com. You can link to my Mp3's from there...
Click to expand...

Hey Satan! (he said in jest)

I'm not sure which Accugroove cab you had, but my El Whappo sounds great. I did have to spend some time re-eq'ing everything. But it handles the LOW end just fine. My strings are DR Lo-Rider H-130's. Not some pansy .080 as you suggest. I might also add... I can line people up from all around this great nation, that will testify to my being able to distinguish what is low, and what is not. I must admit however; that I have yet to be presented with a hospital bill from anyone that had to go have thier intestines untied from the knots put there by my playing... although it has been threatened.

I might also add this. Although it is fun (and never ending) to pursue the ultimate tone, and gut wrenching low end punch, it is also subjective. That's what is wonderful about this country, and also what is great about music. If we all thought the same thing sounded great, we would all play in bands like Trixter (or any other glam band from the 80's that I must admit I listened to) that had no original thought, sound, or influence on anyone else. Same thing goes for everything else in life. I love my Wide-Glide, and would never own a softail. Other's think just the opposite.

Also..... Being a gear nut, I relish the pursuit, and acquisition of cool "stuff". However; it's not the gear that makes anyone a better player. You can have all the best gear in the world and still SUCK!! Learning the fundamentals, and practicing them constantly is what makes me the bass player I am today, not my gear! :bassist:

And finally.... My Accugroove El Whappo laughed at my M-Pulse 600. It just couldn't feed it. You previously said you used 1100w of QSC power (I'm guessing at 4ohm) thta may still not have been enough to make the cab sing like it does for me. Now you say you are using the DCM 2000 or QSC 3402... Add the Whappo Grande to an El Whappo, and I'm betting you WILL be presented with some hospital bills for correcting the intestinal damage done. :D
 
#65
Originally posted by DEVILMAN
Brian,

I ran the cabs through a Carvin DCM 2000 bridged & my QSC 3402 bridged, no difference. I previously should have mentioned that but I figured I'd leave some room for some "flaming"!!! LOL!!!

I also had a Berg 322, VERY nice, but, not my bag. I like the Epi stuff a bit better for my playing.

As far as these "extreme" players go here, I can honestly say I'm referring to the "brown" area of Hz first(for the comparison of brutal lows) & overall sound & clarity with that.

When I play my 4 stringer, the cabs mentioned are all phenomonal. BUT, on a 5/6/7/? stringer(especially dropped in tuning) the cabs spoken of are not designed for that 1% of abuse from people like me who WANT you to s**t your pants at a live venue!

Yes, I'm nuts, but that's what lifes about in "extreme" playing(on the sub side) & I've seen guys use rattier gear that's unimaginable & get great sound out of it(due to the complete rat package) BUT, were limited to just that 1 sound.

My ONLY reason for this response is due to the fact of people gauging the "alleged" capable lows of certain cabs mentioned.

So, in summary, yes, the cabs mentioned will do what 99% of the population will be happy with but break away from that & you're in another world altogether. If you tried to push these cabs with a DBX sub synth they would expire quickly. My 2x18's beg for abuse & sound great doing it, but they're a b***h to haul! Oh well...


later,
~S~


Note: I use my 2x18's for my clean channel through my Kern & DBX + I use 2x15's with an Eden Navigator for my dirty channel(dist, ch, wah, delay) via a splitter box
Click to expand...




Well I can say that Chris Benavente is in a totally D-tuned Metal thrash band that plays at subsonic levels and extremely loud. He uses a Kern preamp, Crest LT2000 (2400 watts) and a Bergantino 322 with a 212 under it. A lot of times he's asked to turn down in clubs and even a few outdoor gigs.

Of course Chris also Plays Benavente's which are probably part of the reason his cabs will handle those freq. Your onboard EQ can really affect the excursion (movement of the speakers) depending on where the freq is set.
The Benavente preamps in the basses are designed to be aggresive yet very tight and focused.
 
#66
Biker4Him,


Hey, ya know, you sound like a straight up guy, it must be the Harley deal(I have a '00 Superglide & a '58 Pan)I'm sorry if I sounded off key with you & have indeed blew a few toupe's off due to my rig.

I'm going to abuse an Accugroove Whappo 21" tomm. If it does me justice(internally) I'm taking it home.

Ride safe & be well!


later,
~S~
 
#67
Brian,

What kind of music are we talking here? Is Chris THAT loud with his band? My ensemble consist of 2 guitarist(full stacks with VHT & Mesa heads) a keyboardist, & a drummer who hits like Mike Tyson! Can you say "hearing protection required"!!! Worst thing is you can't lower drums volume levels soooo, there you have it.

I don't think Chris' rig would do s**t at one of my gigs in db's & Hz's. It probably does sound sweet though. That's why I spoke to you recently about the Epi 6x10(works for me).

Anyway folks, sorry to be off topic here but as always one thing leads to another...


later,
~S~
 
#68
hey all,

for what it's worth, I'm playing through an El Whappo and a Whappo Grande and no one's sued me yet or presented me with a hospital bill, eve the cats who say that whe I slap it's lke being hit in the chest by a shotshell!

nope, so far my Accus just seem to make people (bass players in particular) happy!

:D

if that changes, you can bet I'll post about it here!

from the low end,


Stew
 
#69
DEVILMAN

Yea, Chris does play EXTREMELY loud!!!! He pushes every bit of juice out of the Crest LT2000.

But like I said the control of the onboard eq can have a lot to do with the way your cab speakers react.

The Epifani's cabs might work better for you. It comes down to a personal preference either way.

Thanks
Brian
 
#70
Originally posted by DEVILMAN
Biker4Him,

I'm sorry if I sounded off key with you & have indeed blew a few toupe's off due to my rig.
later,
~S~
Click to expand...

Hey D.Man. No off key tone taken. Besides life's too short to get worked up over someone I don't really know on a message board:cool:

But I think I finally see my main problem. The crowds we play for are to young to wear toupe's!! :hyper: And really... toupe's just don't seem to belong in the Metal scene :eek:

Most of all remember this..... Shiney Side Up. Those broken wing patches are no fun to earn. But on the flip side... you ain't biker if you don't limp!

And Stew.....I'm completely jealous... I'd love to have a Whappo Grande to go with my rig... but then I'd have to get a new amp (I doubt the 1600 watts would push them both) and...... Oh well, one day. Right now I'm still looking for donations to help buy my Roscoe and play mate!:bassist:
 
#71
hey Biker,

if you ever get a Grande, it could be the happiest day in your amplification life!

I had clarity and tone with my El Whappo, but I got *POWER* with my Grande!

my rig has been known to scare children and make guitarists wet themselves, just at the sight of it!

:D

for what it's worth, though, I'm running a Stewart 2.1 in stereo for power now. that's 775W per cab.

from the serious lows,


Stew
 
#72
Originally posted by Stewmc5222
hey Biker,

if you ever get a Grande, it could be the happiest day in your amplification life!

I had clarity and tone with my El Whappo, but I got *POWER* with my Grande!

my rig has been known to scare children and make guitarists wet themselves, just at the sight of it!

:D

for what it's worth, though, I'm running a Stewart 2.1 in stereo for power now. that's 775W per cab.

from the serious lows,


Stew
Click to expand...

Hey Stew,

Maybe you need a QSC PL 6.0 PFC (2500Wpc @ 4ohm)(it'd make you a believer in the "Big Bang Theory").
 
#74
Stew,

I just picked up a Whappo, it's tighter than my 18's but not as high in Hz but I don't need/want them for this side of my set up anyway. I don't know how you only use 775W for power, that mutha can suck it & craves it! I dropped my Dingwall down to a low F & it loved it, even with my sub synth!!! Crystal clear & detailed fundamentals.

Summary: The Whappo Grande does deliver, though a bit costly, there are none that can do what it does...


later,
~S~
 
#76
Originally posted by Biker4Him
The Accugroove, sounds amazing. It just needed more power. Now it will punch harder than Mike Tyson did in 1987.
Click to expand...

LOL. Now you have me GAS'n even more for an Accugroove. However, I already have a 115, so adding a an El Whappo would be a little bit ridiculous and unnecessary... (or would it?).

I'm leaning more towards the Whappo JR. since it's cheaper, smaller, and lighter. I'd love to read a review for it if anyone has one.

--------------------------------
How's my tone? CALL 976-BASS
 
#78
For large gigs I use an Ampeg SVP-BSP preamp,QSC PLX2402, and 2 Ampeg BXT410HL 4 ohm cabinets. I run the QSC in stereo mode at 700 watts per channel. For small rooms I use a G-K 1001RB 2-10 combo-which does a decent job. I tried the SVT-4 Pro head before settling on the QSC. IMHO the 4-Pro sounded great but I was pushing it too hard to be heard. My guitarist uses a 65 watt Rivera 2-12" combo that's incredibly loud, my drummer is a hard hitter using a DW set that really projects, so besides earplugs, I need an amp with some punch. I was previously using a G-K 2000RB/SWR Goliath Sr rig that I really enjoyed, too bad my G-K head went bad. Over the years I've used Ampeg SVT-CL's, an SVT-2 Pro and the 810E "fridge", and an Alembic F1-X tube preamp with either a Crest or QSC poweramp with SWR Goliath 4-10" cabinets, all of which did a fine job. My main bass is a Modulus Q-4 w/EMG's, my backup is a Spector NS4CRFM also with EMG's. My only complaint with my current amp setup is the weight of my Ampeg cabinets(122 lbs each)but I like their tone.

By the way, I'm new to this forum, I'm surprised to read so many posts by players who proudly proclaim "solid state". I'm used to reading the "I'd rather eat a turd than play a solid state amp" posts. IMHO, tube amps, solid state amps, and tube/SS hybrids all sound great, different tones and choices are a great thing.

My two cents, A.P.
 
#79
my El Whappo/Whappo Grande are the ultimate speaker pairing in my experience
Click to expand...

You bastards! I have been battling GAS (unsuccessfully, it would seem) ever since I found this website. Six EA cabs, three Epifani, and several other cabs later, and I am STILL jonesing for an Accugroove cab or two. I checked them out back in the Spring at Low Down Sound and decdied that I must have one or two of their cabs. I was thinking of a smaller scale, like Whappo, Jr. and a Gordo. These other cabs kept coming up on great deals, and I would blow my wad before I had enough for an Accugroove. I keep threatening to compare the Accugrooves to my wall of VL-210B's and VL-208's, but now I may just have to do it for real!

I really should have been a bass gear dealer...

Tom.
 

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