The logic of the OP's post is sound, and following it to its logical conclusion, that "Paint my bass" thread should have been moved immediately to Setup & Repair. The professional, experienced luthiers there are the ones who needed to tell him not to paint his bass and --if he insisted on painting it-- are the only ones who would have been able to help him inflict the least amount of damage on his instrument. Instead, it became a dressing-down of a newbie doubler.
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Double Bass Respect What is it? How do you earn it? (DB Forum thread)
- Thread starter Treyzer
- Start date
Just a thought on the idea of using real names... I have experienced a down side to this, and I am not anxious to do so again
on another forum (motorcyclist forum) my username is a nickname I have went by for 20 odd years. I had also discussed my motorcycle repair business...As soon as I had a disagreement with an unscrupulous individual, I started getting prank phone calls, and other such harassment at work
For the most part I have no problem telling others who I am, My username really is my first name, and the H is my last initial, but going much farther then that can be problematic. You never know who is googling your name
on another forum (motorcyclist forum) my username is a nickname I have went by for 20 odd years. I had also discussed my motorcycle repair business...As soon as I had a disagreement with an unscrupulous individual, I started getting prank phone calls, and other such harassment at work
For the most part I have no problem telling others who I am, My username really is my first name, and the H is my last initial, but going much farther then that can be problematic. You never know who is googling your name
Roy Vogt
Supporting Member
- Sep 20, 2000
- 4,433
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- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Kiesel Basses, Ampeg Amplification, Hotone Ampero II effects
Good point. Because I'm a Pro Player and Teacher I feel comfortable with using my own name and even feel it might be an asset if someone wishes to contact me for lessons or check out my methods or CDs. Not everyone is in my situation and I can see the wisdom of pseudonyms because of work issues, etc.
The thorny issue is posters with pseudonyms behaving badly. Because I'm using my own name, I will only behave and treat others as I would in a face to face conversation. I don't want to act like a Jerk, first because it's just bad and secondly because if I do so it's bad for business. Who would want to seek guidance from someone who would belittle them? I'm not sure I would.
However, as any cursory examination of Youtube will attest to, there are a lot of folks out there trolling for various reasons. It's almost a given that they won't be as nasty using their own names as pseudonyms. The typical reason seems to be to elicit some sort of reaction, any reaction, much like a misbehaving child. By saying something nasty and negative, you're almost always guaranteeing some attention.
This's good. And, not to get self important, but as weird as I may appear on these pages in print, that's exactly me in real life. To some, it may be snarky and in your face sometimes, filled with some swearing but some folks have a low conception of something that's meant to be humorous.
You can't see body language or facial expressions in a verbal printed conversation on a talk site. (and no, the smiley faces don't always work) I've seen it over and over in here. Posts by some well known members being taken seriously or totally out of context by people who haven't read the entire thread. Not reading the entire thread is like listening to a jazz audio clip in the middle of the bass solo, IMO. You lose the essence of the conversation. On the other hand, some people just don't get it, no matter how hard you try.
Interesting discussion.... I have some important questions to ask:
Why is respect so important to you?
Are you getting enough respect in other areas of your life?
Do you respect yourself?
Are your expectations realistic about TB?
So much talk around it but no one has addressed the real issue.
Why is respect so important to you?
Are you getting enough respect in other areas of your life?
Do you respect yourself?
Are your expectations realistic about TB?
So much talk around it but no one has addressed the real issue.
I think at this point we are way past respect. Based on how some posters seem to treat others, we are really talking about basic civility and having manners. In effect, treating others as you wish to be treated.
The local bar analogy is a nice construct. However, in real life at the local watering hole, if someone starts hurling insults and being nasty, he gets the bums rush or he hits the floor pretty quick.
I have nothing against internet "nom de plumes" per se. There are all kinds of valid reasons to use one. However, it has become pretty apparent in this thread (and many others), that Trolls feel no compunction about throwing bombs, hurling insults and generally acting obnoxious on the interweb because they hide behind some fake name. Lets face facts, people who exhibit this kind of behavior just don't seem to grasp concepts like CIVILITY or manners; much less the idea of respect.
Well, not if you do it right!
Seriously, they become "lies" when those who are less facile with the subject matter "simplify" inappropriately. It's not easy to simplify things and still make correct statements. Sorry, just had to give an alternative to the pessimistic view of education.I'd say integrity should be a cornerstone of life but all too often it is not. This is one of the things that I seem to lament most often these days. That is, that people often choose expedience over integrity. I'll stop there on this subject.
Indeed, we have different opinions. Mine is that your interpretation of Treyzer's intent was uncharitable and negative. I will not drop that opinion of your interpretation at all. It was honest. I believe it. I stand firmly by it.
PW, I miss you!
I don't know if I qualify as senior, but perish the thought! How dull this place and life would be if we only interacted with those who agree with us! I think this thread and some other recent ones here are about how we disagree. Indeed, as I posted earlier, everyone deserves respect as a person (at least at the outset), but not all opinions deserve equal respect. It often depends very much on what they are based.
Amazing. Sad.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
Nice link Marc.
We might remember anyone disagreeing with us is expressing his/her opinion. Rather than getting bent out of shape, it may be appropriate to consider it, either adopt it (all or in part) or reject it and move on.
We might remember anyone disagreeing with us is expressing his/her opinion. Rather than getting bent out of shape, it may be appropriate to consider it, either adopt it (all or in part) or reject it and move on.
drurb said:Well, not if you do it right!
Refer to the video I posted. I see his (my prof) point as truth is created by people and our higher education system is set up like he describes. I see it though as a 'you gotta learn the rules before you can break them' scenario.
clink said:
Absolutely. That's what e-prime is all about, recognizing that anything we express in language is through the filter of our own 'reality tunnel'.
We can assign value of any level to any opinion (and by this idea everything is opinion). The trick is getting it to integrate or challenge our reality tunnel.
Interesting video. I find the philosophy with regard to "is" to be an intellectual cop-out. The word "is" really does mean something. Now, to be sure, many people are just too certain of their own "knowledge." With that I certainly agree and I do understand that that is the larger point being made. People often behave in that fashion because they've learned "sound bites" and not taken the time to scratch the surface. I don't expect it, but maybe I can get some "respect," given that I've made education and the passing of knowledge my life's work.
I, and others like me, do not "create truth." In fact, that's anathema to research and education. It may be a fashionable indictment that gets you attention on YouTube and makes undergraduates nod their heads but it's unfair, unjustified, and uninformed (in my educated opinion). We seek to find truth as best we can. How successful each of us is at that must be judged by others.
I see this as the whole point and in the context of a text based internet forum I think it is beneficial (at least for me
) to consider where and how we use *is*. To me this is where respect comes into play. In this philosophy we each have a reality tunnel that has been created by our life experiences. Our willingness to integrate an idea presented by someone into our understanding of reality is then, at least in part, influenced by the opinion we have to the presenter.
I see this as the whole point and in the context of a text based internet forum I think it is beneficial (at least for me
To me this is where respect comes into play. In this philosophy we each have a reality tunnel that has been created by our life experiences. Our willingness to integrate an idea presented by someone into our understanding of reality is then, at least in part, influenced by the opinion we have to the presenter.
Agreed!
I, and others like me, do not "create truth." In fact, that's anathema to research and education. It may be a fashionable indictment that gets you attention on YouTube and makes undergraduates nod their heads but it's unfair, unjustified, and uninformed (in my educated opinion). We seek to find truth as best we can. How successful each of us is at that must be judged by others.
Sure. And to put it into context Robert Anton Wilson was kind of a hippie guru. I find his writings very insightful but it *is* important to consider his audience. I think that in the interest of discovering new 'truths' we need to recognize that our own understanding of 'truth' might be false or at least in need of adjustment (or at least fallible).
I think that steadfast belief in ANYTHING runs a fine line between 'truth' and dogma.
I need an aspirin... or maybe I still have some prosecco...
I'll be the first to agree there's some nasty stuff in this thread. Ill will, bad manners -- clearly on display here.
But I'm pulling this quote from Trey not to pick on him, but because I read into it (perhaps wrongly -- always that, because I was *born* to be wrong) -- a hope that our conversations can always be civil and respectful. My basic point about the social structure of this internet forum thing -- the social psychology of it -- is that it will almost always tend to the chaotic. The social controls that inhibit bad behaviour in real life just are not present here. They never will be.
We are always going to have yabo's mixed in with people of accomplishment. We're going to have loogans mixed in with sensible, even-minded folks. We are always going to have signal and we're always going to have noise. It's everybody's choice whether this suits them or not. You can't just say to the formless, chaotic social mass "hey, where's the order here? Just shape up, everybody!" It's like expecting something to be hot and cold at the same time; like expecting my Kia to surpass the speed of light. It is to expect the sociologically impossible.
So true in all human interaction, I think...in person or online. I do think requiring real identity would temper some of the nastiness BS, though.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
I tend to agree but hesitate to start over. Many of the regulars know my handle is a nickname taken from my last name, Clinkingbeard.
I do think there should be a requirement for a link in a member's profile to their website or some way of identifying them. Total anonymity is not good.
Greg
What if a member doesn't have a website and has no plans to make one? I think that would work for a section of talkbass, not the whole site.
