RIP Mike Starr (formerly of Alice in Chains)

[rtslinger]

I had read he blamed himself for the death of his fellow band mate so he was fighting some tough inner demons that finally won.

 

[buzzbass]

and here come all the self righteous D-Bags, with their Holier Than Thou attitudes. My biological father was lost to addiction. Sure it took 20+ years, but once he started it was like he was already gone. It's sad, no matter who it is.

 

[greenboy]

Whoever are you pointing that snide D-Bags comment at, buzzbass?

 

[buzzbass]

re-read the 1st few pages, you'll figure it out

 

[knuckle]

I love these threads. All the experts come out of the woodwork. The problem with all you EXPERTS is that you base everything on what you have read and learned in books and in school.

People are individuals. Unless you've ever personally have had an addiction, you have no idea what your doing or talking about. Opiate based substances permanently rewire your brain. No matter how long you've parted with the drug, there is still a major longing to do it.

Mikes pain was from a loss and his only source of relief was the needle. The guy had it all. One of the biggest bands ever and in a flash it was over for him. Grasp your head around that for a moment. Very few would be able to grip their head around it.

There's no 1 answer for how to deal with that. People can offer their big pharma fixed, their logic, their knowledge, advice. None of it matters unless the individual finds a reason to live and overcome it. That didn't happen for Mike.

 

[greenboy]

I won't bother. There are always ignorant people who think addiction is cool until it isn't any more, and people who think you can get on the ride and get right back off again when it starts to bother you.

Sadly, not so.

 

[buzzbass]

well said Knuckle

 

[T-MOST]

Lot of help celebrity rehab did him...

Rehab is just a tool. It's useless if you don't use it.

 

[whocaresnotme]

Whoever are you pointing that snide D-Bags comment at, buzzbass?

I would ask this also.

Most of the opinions expressed seem to be fair minded to me. I don't understand why some of you like "buzz bass" have to get vitriolic.

The argument is over whether "substance addiction" is a choice or a legitimate disease. Certainly active addiction requires medical intervention. The initial cause certainly requires that "choice" comes into play. That is what differentiates it from true disease. You won't become a heroin addict if one sneezes in your face.

There may be underlying conditions (mental or genetic) that make it more likely that some people will succumb to addiction but you still have to make the choice to participate.
Jaco is a good example. Apparently Bi-polar disorder was/is inherited in his family. Apparently both his father and sister suffered with it. It is well established that existing mental disorder will become worse if you add addictive substances to it. The point is personal responsibility. Jaco didn't have to add the drugs/alcohol to his "known" problem.

I find it hard to be compassionate towards addicts when they see themselves as "victims". I also don't find it particularly wonderful or heroic when addicts succeed at rehab. After all they are simply returning to zero status. The real heroes are those who have made "choices" to advance their lives not destroy them.

That being said it is very sad that over many decades, our brothers and sisters have succumbed to this problem.

 

[whocaresnotme]

I love these threads. All the experts come out of the woodwork. The problem with all you EXPERTS is that you base everything on what you have read and learned in books and in school.

People are individuals. Unless you've ever personally have had an addiction, you have no idea what your doing or talking about. Opiate based substances permanently rewire your brain. No matter how long you've parted with the drug, there is still a major longing to do it.

Mikes pain was from a loss and his only source of relief was the needle. The guy had it all. One of the biggest bands ever and in a flash it was over for him. Grasp your head around that for a moment. Very few would be able to grip their head around it.

There's no 1 answer for how to deal with that. People can offer their big pharma fixed, their logic, their knowledge, advice. None of it matters unless the individual finds a reason to live and overcome it. That didn't happen for Mike.

His only "source of relief was the needle"?? My God!. He had nothing else?

Your quote: "Opiate based substances permanently rewire your brain. No matter how long you've parted with the drug, there is still a major longing to do it."-end quote. That is subjective and I would love to see some literature that proves that. Can you provide? The body has a natural "opiate system" that accepts opiate binding for obvious reasons. The endorphins are the "natural opiates" in the body and have nearly the same chemical signature as morphine.

Your quote-"The guy had it all. One of the biggest bands ever and in a flash it was over for him. Grasp your head around that for a moment. Very few would be able to grip their head around it."-end quote. That is a pretty simplistic reason for causing his own demise through addiction. Was he that single faceted? He had nothing else going on that would have made life worthwhile? That's just pathetic.

 

[harrybosch]

Rubbish. His drug abuse came long before any loss. He made the intitial decision to inject that junk into his body, unless it comes out that he was held down against his will and somebody else shot him up, his life being the mess that it was and to end the way that it did... he has only himself to blame.

I love these threads. All the experts come out of the woodwork. The problem with all you EXPERTS is that you base everything on what you have read and learned in books and in school.

People are individuals. Unless you've ever personally have had an addiction, you have no idea what your doing or talking about. Opiate based substances permanently rewire your brain. No matter how long you've parted with the drug, there is still a major longing to do it.

Mikes pain was from a loss and his only source of relief was the needle. The guy had it all. One of the biggest bands ever and in a flash it was over for him. Grasp your head around that for a moment. Very few would be able to grip their head around it.

There's no 1 answer for how to deal with that. People can offer their big pharma fixed, their logic, their knowledge, advice. None of it matters unless the individual finds a reason to live and overcome it. That didn't happen for Mike.

 

[TRichardsbass]

So you are saying he was addicted to heroine before he ever injected it into his body?

+1. There will always be people pre-disposed to addictive behaviors, however addictions like those discussed never start until you do it the first time. And that is a choice. And especially given that some drugs, like heroin, crack and meth are specifically known to become physically addictive the very first time you use them, well, that is not anything other then a self-induced addiction. You can't get addicted to heroin, crack or meth unless you actually choose to try or use it.

I don't need to be a doctor to understand that the AMA will classify many things in a medical way in order for them to be covered under medical insurance. Scirosis of the liver is a condition defined by the AMA. Does that mean that if I drink to excess everyday and cause my liver to fail, if I am diagnosed with scirosis of the liver due to my alcohol abuse, that it is then not a self-induced condition?

I am not "annointed", but that doesn't mean that I am not educated. I'll not bother with my resume, but I have one, a damn good one.

I have lost many a friend and musical buddy to the evils of drugs, alcohol and hard living. Doesn't make me mourn for them any more or less. I miss them all dearly and think of them often. I don't just forget how they died though, nor do I ever make excuses for them. I personally discovered one friend dead with the needle in his arm still. An image I will never forget. Would the AMA consider him addicted? Medically yes. Did he contract the addiction through natural causes? No. Would they still diagnose him as dead now? Yes.

 

[knuckle]

LOL @ the "natural opiates in the body comment"

Natural bodily "feel good" chemicals are no where near as potent as anything from the opiate family.

I'm sure that Mike was doing H with Layne long before Layne died. But all anybody can do, lay man and addiction expert can do is try to help someone. But ultimately the addict has to do the time (repair) and if they can't find that small part of them that wants to live and dig out of the hole then nothing can be done.

 

[Jay Corwin]

Hey guys - this is the R.I.P. Mike Starr thread, not the Mike Starr another dead junkie rocker thread.

 

[mancline1000]

Loved his white spector!

 

[Nomadskills]

+1. There will always be people pre-disposed to addictive behaviors, however addictions like those discussed never start until you do it the first time. And that is a choice.

So do you think that Mike Starr woke up one morning, ate his Cheerios at the breakfast table and thought to himself... I'm going to try heroine today?

Or do you think he was already in the throngs of other addictions first, and and probably used heroin for the first time while high on something else?

Isn't one's decision making ability more coherent in one example then the other?

 

[madmatt]

You know, everyone is blaming this on drugs.
Has there been an autopsy already?

But anyway...
Yeah drugs are a bitch. My Son's best friend's girlfriend OD'd on Extacy, 18 years old. My niece almost died from Heroin, well supposedly she did die but they brought her back. My uncle used to inject Cocaine. My mom was an alcoholic, as was her mom. Most of the above smoked cigarettes/pot or still do. I used to work construction where the whole crew would be high before they got to work, doing it at break time, doing it at lunch, and doing it on the way home. Not cool. Save that stuff for when you are home, be safe about it sheesh...
Not to make myself look like a saint, I like to drink a few beers on the weekend, and I enjoy an occasional toke. I know my limits and I do not have any emotional problems which require me to abuse, I consider myself lucky.

So now I am going to get on my soapbox and say, if it ever comes up for a vote in your county, please vote to legalize Marijuana. Marijuana is the most unjustly demonized substance out there. And people are not stupid about it anymore, I mean nobody really watches a film like "Reefer Madness" and believes that crap, do they? I hope not...now you can get a Medical Marijuana card in some states and get all you want. It went from being demon-weed to being a cure-all. It amazes me that the government allows cigarette companies to sell something THEY KNOW is physically addicting, but they will not let anyone smoke a joint, which is not addictive, at least not physically. I can walk into any liquer store and buy enough alcohol to kill an entire family, but noone has ever died from smoking too much pot. I personally believe the only reason pot is not legal yet is because it would give the alcohol and tobacco companies too much competition. And I am sure the alcohol and tobacco companies are lobbying the Hell out of Congress to keep it illegal; I would almost bet on it.

Oh yeah, RIP.

 

[TimWilson]

I'm not a Slipknot fan and offered little sympathy when Paul Gray died from drug use. I'm a *huge* AIC fan, and still offer little sympathy for self-inflicted death.

I don't mean to be "that guy", but I think we FAR too often overlook the horrible decisions these people make that lead to their demise. Starr got handed the ultimate consequence for his decision to continue to abuse substances.

Hey, you're not the only 'that guy'. I'm sorry about Starr's death, too, but I think Dee Snider said it best when he said "Addiction is not a disease. Cancer is a disease. If I point a gun at a cancer victim and say 'Stop having cancer, or I'll shoot', then that person is helpless. If I do the same to an addict, 'don't snort that or I'll shoot.', just watch the healing begin.

 

[Jheake]

I'm addicted to video games.......seriously..Not kidding i know close friends who have been through divorce, lost jobs gave up great scholarships. All for video games. Addiction is addiction. My mother was a heroin addict, she told me if she ever found me with a needle in my arm she would kill me, her self. Then she gave me a bowl of green bud for my 13th birthday. ive never touched heroin to this day. But i smoke a lot of pot. RIP mom

and some of you are addicted to forum posting.

imagine if we all spent that time playing and practicing instead of letting our addictions get the best of us..

 

[rosstanium]

I never realized there were so many people on these boards that loved the sound of their own voices so much.